Can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

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This is from JPII:

According to the “canons” added to this doctrinal text, the First Vatican Council confirmed the following truths:
  1. The one, true God is Creator and Lord “of visible and invisible things” (DS 3021).
  2. It is contrary to faith to affirm that only matter exists (materialism) (DS 3022).
  3. It is contrary to faith to assert that God is essentially identified with the world (pantheism) (DS 3023).
  4. It is contrary to faith to maintain that creatures, even spiritual ones, are an emanation of the divine substance, or to affirm that the divine Being by its manifestation or evolution becomes everything (DS 3024).
  5. Also contrary to faith is the idea that God is the universal or indefinite being which in becoming determinate constitutes the universe divided into genera, species and individuals (DS 3024).
  6. It is likewise contrary to faith to deny that the world and all things contained in it, whether spiritual or material, in their entire substance have been created by God out of nothing (DS 3025).
Number 4 is what will answer our question here. The Divine does not emanate from creation including angels. That is why Baptism is necessary in order for the Holy Spirit to dwell in the soul. Only through the sacraments are we made like God because it is the Trinity who comes to dwell within us. Apart from those graces, we’d be ourselves…not God and He certainly would not dwell within us. At the same time, article 4 says just because God has revealed Himself doesn’t mean He becomes everything. The idea the Holy Spirit is actually in every soul regardless of baptism (or state of grace) is a heresy. You don’t need to believe me, but you do need to believe Vatican I and John Paul II.
stmichael, nobody here is denying these six articles. As has already been pointed out, the mode of the Holy Spirit’s presence is different. To quote myself: These are two different ways in which He is present: sustaining in existence and sanctifying the soul brought by grace from servanthood as a creature to sonship as a new creation in Christ.

You erroneously insist that the latter is the only way He is present in the soul and deny His omnipresence. In denying His omnipresence (since He is God the Holy Spirit and where One Person Is all Persons are) you deny an essential de fide doctrine of the Faith, making of the Holy Spirit an adjunct of God since He can only get to work at Baptism, not God the Holy Spirit Who with the Father and the Son, the One God, sustains all that has come into being by His presence to and in it (you cannot seem to grasp that God’s being in creation is not an assertion of pantheism). I’m afraid it is you in your misunderstanding who is making of Him essentially a mere emanation, not a Divine Person.
 
So what I have gathered from many of the posts is that the Holy Spirit dwells within us but in varying degrees according to the level of sanctity in our souls. If we are in mortal sin we do spiritual damage to our souls and the relationship that we have with the Holy Spirit but the Holy spirit does not leave us.

For the past year or so I have studied more concerning the **Indwelling of the Holy Trinity **in the Temple of one’s body. And I have to agree with my patron saint, Saint Teresa of Avila’s analogy that the souls is like a crystal with many mansions within it and that when the soul is in a state of mortal sin it is like the soul’s radiance being covered with a black veil and not allowing the sun to shine and show its brilliance. That is how the Holy Spirit works on upon our souls and it all comes down to our relationship with the Holy Spirit through the state of one’s soul.

Just as we have different varying of degrees of sanctity in each individual soul so will there be varying degrees of sanctity/glory in heaven with each individual soul.

God bless 😃
👍
 
Objectively, can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

Personally, I don’t see how it is possible but I am looking to get other opinions or Church teaching if possible? Primarily Church teachings! The main reason I hold this thought is because of the state our Blessed Mother Mary was in all her life as the new Arc of the Covenant. Likewise, our bodies are a tabernacle of the Lord. Since we must be purified and perfected to be in the presence of the Father, I would think that we would have to be in a state of grace for the Holy Spirit to reside in us. Christ also said that if we abide in Him, then He will abide in us. We believe in circumincession, so how can a person in mortal sin have God dwell in them. I don’t deny that grace still works in our lives, if in this state.

Can some of my brothers or sisters help me out with this one?

Pax Christi
 
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bluelake:
The Holy Spirit guides us to all truth.
He comes and dwells in us the moment of our faith.
When Jesus went to the Father He promised he would never leave us. Jesus sent the holy Spirit to dwell in all believers. See Jn.14;23-27

God bless you,
bluelake

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all three, One God. 🙂

Gal. 1:1 Rom.9:5, Col.2:9
Phil.1:2
 
Objectively, can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

Personally, I don’t see how it is possible but I am looking to get other opinions or Church teaching if possible? Primarily Church teachings! The main reason I hold this thought is because of the state our Blessed Mother Mary was in all her life as the new Arc of the Covenant. Likewise, our bodies are a tabernacle of the Lord. Since we must be purified and perfected to be in the presence of the Father, I would think that we would have to be in a state of grace for the Holy Spirit to reside in us. Christ also said that if we abide in Him, then He will abide in us. We believe in circumincession, so how can a person in mortal sin have God dwell in them. I don’t deny that grace still works in our lives, if in this state.

Can some of my brothers or sisters help me out with this one?

Pax Christi
The Holy Spirit is God. God is omnipresent, everywhere at all times.
See Gen.1:2, Acts 5:3-4 to get started, you can search scriptures and go on from there.

God bless,
bluelakle
 
Objectively, can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

Personally, I don’t see how it is possible but I am looking to get other opinions or Church teaching if possible? Primarily Church teachings! The main reason I hold this thought is because of the state our Blessed Mother Mary was in all her life as the new Arc of the Covenant. Likewise, our bodies are a tabernacle of the Lord. Since we must be purified and perfected to be in the presence of the Father, I would think that we would have to be in a state of grace for the Holy Spirit to reside in us. Christ also said that if we abide in Him, then He will abide in us. We believe in circumincession, so how can a person in mortal sin have God dwell in them. I don’t deny that grace still works in our lives, if in this state.

Can some of my brothers or sisters help me out with this one?

Pax Christi
At the moment of our faith, the holy Spirit indwells the believer.
We are saved by grace, through faith . this is the gift of God. Eph.2:8-9
See Jn.14:23-27 Please read these passages from the Bible.

God bless, you,

bluelake
 
So if someone dies in mortal sin and the Holy Spirit is in them, then what happens to the Holy Spirit when that person dies? Does the Holy Spirit stay in that person’s soul and escort them to hell or does He depart from that person upon death?

Pax Christi.
Accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior doesn’t make you a saint. We all sin everyday.
We also pray everyday. 🙂
The Holy Spirit is God. God will never leave you. God knows your heart and your every thought.
He loves you wiith an everlasting love. Praise His holy Name.

God bless you,
bluelake
 
God never leaves anyone but He doesn’t necessarily dwell in them, especially if they do not believe in Him.

Romans 8: But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.

If you die never accepting Jesus or if you have accepted him and then rejected him, God allows you to descend to hell by your own choosing. You choose to separate yourself from God. You, in a sense, leave God.

Also, there are believers who are deceived. They think they love God and have accepted Him, but they haven’t.

1 John 4 “God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him. In this is love brought to perfection among us, that we have confidence on the day of judgement because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. This is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.”

St. John goes on to recognize that some sin is considered deadly (what Catholics call mortal sin). It completely separates you from the love of God until you confess it contritely.

1 John 5: 16-17 He writes, "If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

Protestants get it wrong all the time. They think if you accept Jesus as your savior, that you are saved just by that profession of faith. It is a good start, but more is needed. You must live the Christian life and reject sin. St. Paul says, “Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.” Philippians 2:12
St. James says, “Faith without works is dead.” James 2:26.
St. Peter says, "Rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, insincerity, envy and all slander, like newborn infants, long for pure spiritual milk, so that through it you may grow into salvation for you have tasted that the Lord is good. 1 Peter 2:1-2.
Even St. John says that the dead will be judged according to their deeds. He writes, "I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. Revelation 20: 12

Jesus even warns those who think they know him that some will be damned eternally.

He says, "Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.” Matthew 7:21

As you can see from what Jesus says, some will recognize him as Lord but will not do his Father’s will and therefore they will go to hell. Take heed and do the will of God!
 
Objectively, can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

Personally, I don’t see how it is possible but I am looking to get other opinions or Church teaching if possible? Primarily Church teachings! The main reason I hold this thought is because of the state our Blessed Mother Mary was in all her life as the new Arc of the Covenant. Likewise, our bodies are a tabernacle of the Lord. Since we must be purified and perfected to be in the presence of the Father, I would think that we would have to be in a state of grace for the Holy Spirit to reside in us. Christ also said that if we abide in Him, then He will abide in us. We believe in circumincession, so how can a person in mortal sin have God dwell in them. I don’t deny that grace still works in our lives, if in this state.

Can some of my brothers or sisters help me out with this one?

Pax Christi
yes.
We all sin everyday Sin is sin.
Repent. Jesus loves you and me.

bluuelake
 
Objectively, can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person that is in a state of mortal sin?

Personally, I don’t see how it is possible but I am looking to get other opinions or Church teaching if possible? Primarily Church teachings! The main reason I hold this thought is because of the state our Blessed Mother Mary was in all her life as the new Arc of the Covenant. Likewise, our bodies are a tabernacle of the Lord. Since we must be purified and perfected to be in the presence of the Father, I would think that we would have to be in a state of grace for the Holy Spirit to reside in us. Christ also said that if we abide in Him, then He will abide in us. We believe in circumincession, so how can a person in mortal sin have God dwell in them. I don’t deny that grace still works in our lives, if in this state.

Can some of my brothers or sisters help me out with this one?

Pax Christi
When a person becomes a believer the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our hearts forever.
He will never leave you.
Jn.14:16 Please read Chapter 14 Jn.

God bless,
bluelake
 
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God never leaves anyone but He doesn’t necessarily dwell in them, especially if they do not believe in Him.

Romans 8: But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.
stmichael19; I believe this passage from Scripture makes it impossible for someone to speak of God’s Sanctifying Spirit dwelling in a person in mortal sin. No one has denied that God sustains all people, for we would not exist without Him, but to say that the presence is the same as the one we receive at baptism is quite contrary to Scripture. Also, what would be the great harm of mortal sin, if it did not cause the Holy Spirit to depart from us and leave us in the state we were prior to baptism? The Church teaches that mortal sin “severs” the relationship with God, not cover it over so we cannot see it, or dim the light within us, but “severs” the relationship. This means there is no longer a true relationship between a person in mortal sin and God. The omnipresence of God has to be seen and understood differently from the “indwelling” of the Holy Spirit that we receive at baptism.

God bless.
 
The important difference is that we don’t earn merit while we are in the state of mortal sin.

For instance, the Holy Spirit can still move me to do something good, but I would not be doing something virtuous and my soul would not increase in holiness because I am in the state of mortal sin.
But He (Holy Spirit) can move you from without, correct? Or are you saying the Holy Spirit can only move someone from within?

God bless!
 
I want to layout the points of agreement here so that the conversation can become more clear…

1- God’s presence (Trinity) exists in all creation, human, animal, everything, or it would seize to exist.
2- God’s sustaining presence (Trinity) in point 1 does not merit us salvation, just existence.
3- We receive the Holy Spirit (Trinity) in a sanctifying and more efficacious way at baptism.
4- Mortal sin severs the relationship, in point 3, with God (Trinity). The sanctifying “presence” of the Holy Spirit is no longer present in our soul.
5- Proper confession restores the relationship, in point 3, with God (Trinity). The sanctifying “presence” of the Holy Spirit is now present in our soul.

The distinction that needs to be made is to what degree God is present to us depending on our state of grace or lack thereof. God is only present to His creation in a way that we would not exist without Him. The Holy Spirit comes down and enters a baptized person from without (the dial on the furnace is not turn up, causing the flame to grow more), meaning that His presence, in what we speak of here, was not already there.

Is this statement more agreeable to everyone commenting…
The presence of God is in all creation only in a way that we would seize to exist without His presence, and not as pantheist believe. Upon baptism, the Holy Spirit (Trinity) takes refuge in our soul and “dwells” or “communes” with us while in a state of grace. When mortal sin is committed, the Holy Spirit no longer takes residence within us, thus no longer “dwelling” within us in a substantial and sanctifying way, but only in the way He did prior to baptism . The sanctifying presence of God seizes to exist within a person in the state of mortal sin, which is the state in which man “severs” his relationship with God and can no longer be a tabernacle of Him who is Holy. This does not deny God the ability to move us to reconciliation from without, nor does it deny God’s eternal love for us, nor does it mean that God withdraws from us completely, causing us to not exist anymore.
Pax Christi.
 
Can someone move this thread over to Moral Theology or Philosophy, whichever it belongs in? I think I posted it in the wrong forum from the get go and I don’t want to create a new thread on the same topic in a different forum.

Is this possible?
 
No, actually he doesn’t stay, untill God forgives you. When you sin, it feels like somebody poured sludge into your car. Your body is the car btw. U basically enter a state of negativity and anger where all you do is think negative and angry thoughts. Once Gods anger has passed and he forgives you. He removes that sludge, and dwells in you again. God can’t be in a place of sin, and your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
 
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