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Rabbi
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The above was for the eyes of @Zealot
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GKMotley
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The general public needs more education. Shooting/ carbon monoxide poisoning both preceded the gas chambers, which were built as a more straight-forward, efficient solution to the problem, and easier on the Army/SS troops doing the deeds. Other methods continued in use by the Einsatzgruppen on the Eastern front. And deaths did come from use of the prisoners as slave labor, disease and etc, in the concentration camps, as opposed to the extermination camps. The wiki entry on Einzatzgruppen is useful for the distinction. But gassing, in the extermination camps, was the primary method, from 1942.
Running folks over with tanks I’ve not heard of, save perhaps as isolated incidents. Inefficient, at the least. And the Nazis strove for efficiency.
As to Unit 731, what do you find unconvincing, say as related in Barrenblatt’s PLAGUE UPON HUMANITY or Harris’ FACTORIES OF DEATH, two books that come to hand, on the shelves. Unlike the Holocaust books, which are all packed.
Running folks over with tanks I’ve not heard of, save perhaps as isolated incidents. Inefficient, at the least. And the Nazis strove for efficiency.
As to Unit 731, what do you find unconvincing, say as related in Barrenblatt’s PLAGUE UPON HUMANITY or Harris’ FACTORIES OF DEATH, two books that come to hand, on the shelves. Unlike the Holocaust books, which are all packed.
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GKMotley
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Yeah.
Guess we’re gonna need books.
Guess we’re gonna need books.
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Peebo
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Hi Rabbi…I’m probably not the most knowledgeable person to talk about oral tradition in the Catholic Church…but here is a U Tube video that can explain it better…shalom
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Rabbi
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Thank you!
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Rabbi
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Alright, I had a problem with the video 3 minutes in. The Jewish concert, who’s name I already forget, made a huge mistake. He said we place Talmud over Scripture. Assuming then that the last time he read the opening chapter of Pirkei Avot was when he was in yeshiva? To be frank about it, we ALWAYS put the Torah over Talmud even though there are no contradictions. Secondly, education teaches us that if we find an apparent error between the two, always be lenient with Talmud. Ask anyone else whose Orthodox Jewish on this site. If you have safek (a doubt) on d’oraita (Torah law) over d’rabbanan (rabbinic law), always go with Torah first. Logic 101. If between two Torah laws, take the strictest position (machmir); if between two rabbinic ones, be again, lenient (makil). What is this in Hebrew? safek d’oraita l’humra; safek d’rabbanan l’kula.
Suppose you read two of the morning prayers (Bar’khu and Shema), but then you suddenly have amnesia (just for argument’s sake), and forget. Well, what do you do in this situation? You read the Shema first, for its a Torah commandment (Devarim 6:7), then cite the rabbinic one.
I just wanted to make that point. I’m not complying much, but that had to clarified for anyone else who’d watch the video - by the way, I’m still going to finish it regardless of all this, don’t get the wrong impression.
Suppose you read two of the morning prayers (Bar’khu and Shema), but then you suddenly have amnesia (just for argument’s sake), and forget. Well, what do you do in this situation? You read the Shema first, for its a Torah commandment (Devarim 6:7), then cite the rabbinic one.
I just wanted to make that point. I’m not complying much, but that had to clarified for anyone else who’d watch the video - by the way, I’m still going to finish it regardless of all this, don’t get the wrong impression.
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Rabbi
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Finished it, very interesting, I’d like to learn more.
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Peebo
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Thank you Rabbi…here is another video from this same Jewish convert…it’s interesting to me as a Christian to fully understand what he says…that salvation…for all of mankind is from the Jews…and that Jews should be proud of that fact…of course he is referring to his belief that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah…I hope you don’t think I’m trying to convert you Rabbi…it’s interesting as a Catholic hearing about how a Jew came to the acknowledge Christ as the Messiah…I hope you don’t mind this video even if you don’t agree with him…I think that we as Christians probably don’t put as much emphasis on the fact that yes…we do owe our salvation from the Jews…our Lord was born a Jew…of a Jewish mother…all the early Christians were Jews…Christianity itself evolved out of Judaism…the Jews are Gods chosen people…perhaps other posters on here would like to give (name removed by moderator)ut to this thread
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Rabbi
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Thank you for sharing that. It touched my heart. I will now go and watch the next video above.
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BlueMaxx
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Just put the shovel down and walk away…Rabbi:
I really wanted to stop posting in this thread and on this topic, so why do you keep claiming I said things I didn’t? I have never discussed numbers. I have never doubted said numbers to be true. I am skeptical of any numbers as a default position (I am skeptical of everything as a default position), but since the overwhelming majority of experts and historians seem to agree within a specific range of numbers (~six million being the one I hear most often) I will defer to them as regards that topic.
I don’t think less died. I’m really not concerned with the historicity of the holocaust beyond mild skepticism of some of the wilder claims and also a mild distaste for most flat-out deniers. I made one small point, which was, in hindsight, unwise, at it was taken as denial and mitigation, when in reality it was more a point on the freedom of speech than anything else. If you’ll stop putting words and concepts in my mouth then I’ll stop defending myself and you can have your thread back. Deal?
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BlueMaxx
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One last aside…my father landed on D-Day as a US Army soldier from the beaches of Normandy till the end…he personally saw the atrocities. He has the Purple Hearts, Silver and Bronze stars to prove it if you are dubious. Not to mention many years of silent PTSD suffering. He was one of three survivors of his original unit.
The man was a stoic Cherokee and suffered immensely and quietly at what he saw till the day he died. Not just the liberating of the death camps but the suffering on both sides.
He was infantry and he was with the armored division and marched behind the tanks all the way. Corpses under treads is nothing new.
Never, ever underestimate the cruelty and pain man can inflict upon one another, especially in a time of war. Killing, unbelievable violence, rape and torture towards man, woman, child, the elderly even animals…anything with a heartbeat. War perverts the mind and scars the conscience and soul.
When I told my dad I joined the Marines in 1983, for the first time I saw him cry…it took me years to really understand why.
The things you are skeptical of (such as tanks rolling over people) are benign compared to the reality of the horrors set upon the Jewish folks and the gypsies, retarded and mentally ill people…and others who were unfortunate enough to fall under the Nazis march to oblivion.
The Russians too can tell you about the unimaginable atrocities they suffered. And suffer they did at the hands of the Nazis. The Russians however had some ability to fight back, the Jews were rounded up like animals and had no such recourse available to them, the Germans had made sure they could not fight back nor defend themselves. Another evil beset on the Jews living in Germany when Hitler started to rise to power. The Jews were all but defenseless. It makes my stomach turn.
Do yourself a favor and talk to some survivors why they are still with us and pick up a flipping history book…see the historical photos for yourself, read of the first hand account of the wonderful Jewish people who survived.
Almost 6 million Jews died…of all ages…more then 17 million died in the conflict overall…by what you perceive as “mustache twirling Nazis”. The reason they went to “gassing” is they were running out of ammunition to shoot all those in the concentration camps, they need a more efficient way to kill mass amounts of people. Bullets were needed at the fronts. Try and wrap your head around the shear logistics of killing and disposing that many people. Starvation took too long…gas was quicker. Again, not my opinion, but that of people who were actually there.
When you lend any credence to deniers or to the veracity of suffering the Jewish people, the Gypsies and people of Roma, the Polish the Russians and many others endured you only allow traction for revisionist history.
Peace, I’m out…
M
The man was a stoic Cherokee and suffered immensely and quietly at what he saw till the day he died. Not just the liberating of the death camps but the suffering on both sides.
He was infantry and he was with the armored division and marched behind the tanks all the way. Corpses under treads is nothing new.
Never, ever underestimate the cruelty and pain man can inflict upon one another, especially in a time of war. Killing, unbelievable violence, rape and torture towards man, woman, child, the elderly even animals…anything with a heartbeat. War perverts the mind and scars the conscience and soul.
When I told my dad I joined the Marines in 1983, for the first time I saw him cry…it took me years to really understand why.
The things you are skeptical of (such as tanks rolling over people) are benign compared to the reality of the horrors set upon the Jewish folks and the gypsies, retarded and mentally ill people…and others who were unfortunate enough to fall under the Nazis march to oblivion.
The Russians too can tell you about the unimaginable atrocities they suffered. And suffer they did at the hands of the Nazis. The Russians however had some ability to fight back, the Jews were rounded up like animals and had no such recourse available to them, the Germans had made sure they could not fight back nor defend themselves. Another evil beset on the Jews living in Germany when Hitler started to rise to power. The Jews were all but defenseless. It makes my stomach turn.
Do yourself a favor and talk to some survivors why they are still with us and pick up a flipping history book…see the historical photos for yourself, read of the first hand account of the wonderful Jewish people who survived.
Almost 6 million Jews died…of all ages…more then 17 million died in the conflict overall…by what you perceive as “mustache twirling Nazis”. The reason they went to “gassing” is they were running out of ammunition to shoot all those in the concentration camps, they need a more efficient way to kill mass amounts of people. Bullets were needed at the fronts. Try and wrap your head around the shear logistics of killing and disposing that many people. Starvation took too long…gas was quicker. Again, not my opinion, but that of people who were actually there.
When you lend any credence to deniers or to the veracity of suffering the Jewish people, the Gypsies and people of Roma, the Polish the Russians and many others endured you only allow traction for revisionist history.
Peace, I’m out…
M
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BlueMaxx
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Rabbi,
Thank you for the thread…
I LOVE the Jewish people…I mean they are God’s chosen folk, the apple of His eye!
As a Christian I am always amazed at what they have had to endure, from the beginning when God chose them and sent them out of Egypt to knowing what they would have to do to His son…unimaginable…my mind cannot grasp it.
I always feel a pull in my heart towards the Jewish nation, culture and customs…their observation of God. I am humbled to be allowed to learn about the People God chose for himself, and what He knew must come to pass at their hands for little ol’ me to live forever with Him…
Utterly amazing…
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Thank you for the thread…
I LOVE the Jewish people…I mean they are God’s chosen folk, the apple of His eye!
As a Christian I am always amazed at what they have had to endure, from the beginning when God chose them and sent them out of Egypt to knowing what they would have to do to His son…unimaginable…my mind cannot grasp it.
I always feel a pull in my heart towards the Jewish nation, culture and customs…their observation of God. I am humbled to be allowed to learn about the People God chose for himself, and what He knew must come to pass at their hands for little ol’ me to live forever with Him…
Utterly amazing…
M
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GKMotley
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I could make a comment or two, but it would be nit-picking.
Well said.
Well said.
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Mary888
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In Eastern Orthodox Church the Eucharist is a re-iteration of the Last Supper as Jesus himself did it at the beginning of his church. It is a re -enactment on that supper. We believe it is close to a time-travel reiteration of it. The term a priest used to explain it to me was “actualization”. During the Eucharist Christ comes to be present amongst us as he was present to the Apostles. That is besides the Sacrifice which in itself is left a mystery since the Bible does not offer much more than what he said about the bread and the wine.
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GKMotley
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I’ll make a similar comment. There were few of my relatives who had actual combat experience in WWII. But they, and non-family friends who had also been there and back had the same reaction. My mother used to tell me of her brother, who, after the war, would sit on the back steps with her, half the night, and talk, unable to sleep. But he wouldn’t talk of the war.
Perhaps my wife’s uncle would have. But he didn’t quite make it to the Roer.
Much of history is sliding into the memory hole. One does what one can.
Perhaps my wife’s uncle would have. But he didn’t quite make it to the Roer.
Much of history is sliding into the memory hole. One does what one can.
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Rabbi
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Is there anything else you guys would like me to answer? I’ll be glad to help!
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FloridaCatholic
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Do jews completely deny the resurrection of Jesus? What’s the Jewish explanation of the gospels? Do jews consider them to be historically inaccurate?
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meltzerboy2
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I think most Jews accept that Jesus was a historical figure as were the Apostles, He was a rabbi, and He was crucified. But that’s about as far as Jews go. They do not accept Jesus as a prophet, nor the Messiah, and certainly not G-d. The Gospels are taken as literary narrative, no doubt some parts of which are true; but they are not taken as Holy Scripture inspired by G-d. I’m sure Rabbi can add more to this.
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Rabbi
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