Can We Get Catholics to Sing? - Part Deux

[liturgyluver]

I think there are 3 main requirements to aid congregational singing:

• the first as others have suggested is that the Parish Priest takes an active part in making clear that the congregation are expected to sing. At one parish I visited recently after a very poor showing at the processional hymn, the priest told the congregation that he would make them sing everything twice unless they participated properly - it certainly did the trick.
• secondly, there are a range of congregational mass settings but rotating too frequently can cause confusion and unfamiliarity to prevail. In some parishes these rotate seasonaly so new mass settings are used, for example, at Lent and Advent.
• thirdly, many Catholics certainly have a problem singing hymns. We now have a great reportoire of hymns in our hymnals - some modern Catholic ones but many other traditional ones from other denominations (especially Anglican and Lutheran) for use at mass. The key is to ensure that the hymns are well chosen for the liturgical year, for the particular Sunday (or feast) in question, and for the appropraite point at the mass, so that congregations begin to realise they are not simply random choices made by ill-informed liturgists or music directors.

The Germans Catholics sing loudly and beautifully and clearly appreciate music in the liturgy. They could teach us all a thing or two about how to sing well.

 

[Michael12]

Part of the problem is that in most cases, there is all performance and no rehearsal. Practice makes perfect and if the members of the congregation feel they are being dropped in at the deep end, they will just be scared. At one local church, when a new Mass setting conforming to the new translation was being introduced, the music director took time each week to rehearse a different part each week before Mass. This way, when that part arrived later that morning during Mass, it was familiar and people recognized it and could participate better. It’s a cumulative effect. If there’s a week (or usually much longer) since the last time you heard a piece or tried singing it, you’re probably going to be rusty and reluctant to sing out. How many churchgoers have the opportunity to sing ANYTHING outside of Mass? All too few, unfortunately.

Another contributing factor is the LACK of part-singing. Those melody-only hymnals do a serious disservice to music. It’s simply a fact of life that not everyone has the same range voice. That should be celebrated, not discouraged. It’s a misconception to think that “oh, just singing the melody” along with the cantor is easy for everyone. It also misses out on a crucial aspect of choral music - that different parts contribute to the whole. (I’m not talking about plainchant here, OK?) No one has a football team made up only of quarterbacks. Emphasizing the top (melody) instead of building the sound from the bottom is a sure recipe for problems. You get a thin, very empty sound that makes people self-conscious (and therefore reluctant). With some strong basses providing a sturdy foundation, EVERYONE sounds better. It’s just a basic concept of acoustics. And when you have a part that fits your vocal range more naturally, of course, you’re going to sing stronger, more securely, and more in tune. The church will resonate with those harmonics - and that’s exactly what most churches were designed for! Are Catholics somehow incapable of singing parts while Protestants have this natural knack for it? Of course not. It’s a matter of immersing them (don’t worry, I’m not going all Baptist on you…) in a musical culture where part-singing is always there. In general, people will gravitate to what part is best for them.

Of course, one can’t accomplish this with a snap of the fingers. It takes time and focus and repetition. It also takes careful selection of music that is designed to accomplish this goal. It is very noticeable in my church that traditional selections get more congregation participation. Alas, whoever is choosing the music sometimes goes overboard with the new (and not-so-new) “contemporary” pieces that just don’t encourage participation from the pews. Even our pastor commented on the awkwardness after a recent processional.

 

[SMHW]

I’m relating my personal experience here. I freely admit it is merely anecdotal.

When I was an elementary school age Catholic I used to think that singing and saying the responses was supposed to be done in an indistinct mumble. That’s how all the other 1960s Catholics spoke and sang at Mass. In retrospect I guess some of the people didn’t know the words despite the fact that nearly everyone brought their own missal to Mass. I guess that was a holdover from the days when the responses were left to the servers.

When I was in my early 20s (dinosaurs *still *roamed the parishes) I sang in a contemporary choir that sang from the front of the church. We mostly sang those Glory and Praise songs with all those verses with unique rhythms that so often get blamed for a lack of singing. That congregation sang like no other congregation I’ve been in since. I think it’s because the people knew we were looking at them and they didn’t want to get caught not singing. (I used to look at people who weren’t singing and when they’d notice they’d usually at least start moving their mouths. Yes, I was immature back then. Unlike now.)

My point is that peer pressure has a lot to do with whether or not Catholics sing.

My choir takes the summer off from singing together. But it’s very common to see choir member sitting together in the assembly. (Well, so many of us are friends!) I have sometimes made it a point to vary the sound level of my own voice or to switch between the melody line and the alto harmony just to see if it makes a difference in the singing of others. It seems to me that if I clearly sing the Mass parts the more likely the people around me sing. But I have not noticed that my voice has much influence on others singing hymns.

 

[johnnykins]

Why Catholics don’t sing:

1. terrible, unfamiliar, syncopated, insipid, (occasionally heretical or suspect) hymns no one except the choir likes or has ever heard of - changed every Mass so no one becomes familiar.
2. the tempo is all wrong - too fast usually for a congregation - or syncopated as above
3. no 4 part music is EVER provided, so if you’re not a soprano, you’re out of luck
4. OFTEN no music at all is provided - lyrics only just to keep you guessing. This is especially common in direct proportion to unfamiliarity and syncopation
5. Ordinary setting varied to make sure no one learns that either
6. weird notation - some of the notation I’ve seen is just so unusual that it makes one shake one’s head
7. the cantor with arms all akimbo looking ridiculous - can’t stand that
8. something other than what is provided is actually played…that’s a favorite!!!
9. people keep saying you pray twice…the use of that phrase needs to have excommunication latae sententiae attached for the next 50 years to stop the drivel

Pick good, singable hymns at a reasonable tempo providing all 4 parts - like they do in every Protestant Church - and have the hymns/ordinary setting used regularly and folks will start singing…MD’s seems to hate Holy God We Praise Thy Name…but even with the slightly revised current version - people sing it. Continue the crud and people will never sing…

 

[TrueLight]

Sounds like it might be time for a pastoral intervention. Father can remind people that s/he who sings prays twice and encourage people to go for it! If it’s preached from he pulpit at a Latin mass I’m betting that will make a difference. Sometimes people think that the processional is for the schola and the recessional is for everyone. It might just be a misconception…
Full discolsure: I sing at the processional for my Novus Ordo but only at the recessional at my Latin Mass. Guess I’ll be checking on this one myself…

I have considered the idea of an announcement.

Some people get really touchy when you encourage them to sing.

 

[TrueLight]

You and another poster mentioned familiarity and that’s a good point.

Alas, we really follow the rubrics so instead of singing Mass VIII that everyone knows, we sing whatever mass is appropriate. I think there are about 18 masses in the Kyriale. We do alternate.

I understand it would be hard for someone to sing the Kyrie in Mass V if they dont’ hear it that much, but I’m just surprised at the lack of singing for the more common ones, as well as the lack of singing for the common hymns!

I honestly think some people don’t know they may sing along, so an announcement might be key along with some hymn or chant workshops.

Why Catholics don’t sing:

1. terrible, unfamiliar, syncopated, insipid, (occasionally heretical or suspect) hymns no one except the choir likes or has ever heard of - changed every Mass so no one becomes familiar.
2. the tempo is all wrong - too fast usually for a congregation - or syncopated as above
3. no 4 part music is EVER provided, so if you’re not a soprano, you’re out of luck
4. OFTEN no music at all is provided - lyrics only just to keep you guessing. This is especially common in direct proportion to unfamiliarity and syncopation
5. Ordinary setting varied to make sure no one learns that either
6. weird notation - some of the notation I’ve seen is just so unusual that it makes one shake one’s head
7. the cantor with arms all akimbo looking ridiculous - can’t stand that
8. something other than what is provided is actually played…that’s a favorite!!!
9. people keep saying you pray twice…the use of that phrase needs to have excommunication latae sententiae attached for the next 50 years to stop the drivel

Pick good, singable hymns at a reasonable tempo providing all 4 parts - like they do in every Protestant Church - and have the hymns/ordinary setting used regularly and folks will start singing…MD’s seems to hate Holy God We Praise Thy Name…but even with the slightly revised current version - people sing it. Continue the crud and people will never sing…

 

[jeannetherese]

I understand it would be hard for someone to sing the Kyrie in Mass V if they dont’ hear it that much, but I’m just surprised at the lack of singing for the more common ones, as well as the lack of singing for the common hymns!

I honestly think some people don’t know they may sing along, so an announcement might be key along with some hymn or chant workshops.

Good point! When I first started assisting at the E.F., I took my cues from the person in front of me.

There was a lot to learn…and the person in fromt may well have been learning too…

Many people are discovering the E.F. for the first time and will not know when and where to make their voices heard. Permission to sing might be all they need to discover what the norms are for the E.F.
A blurb in the bulletin might be a great supplement as well.
May God bless your endeavors. Amen.

 

[Cat]

I didn’t want to dig up the old thread from last year, but I still have the same question.

Can we get Catholics to sing?

Sometimes we hand out processional hymns at our parish before the mass, and nada.

How can we get people in the pew to sing?

How can we get them to sing the Mass ordinaries, for example, something as well known as this Sanctus, from the Missa de Angelis, which everyone knows?

I read on another thread that the Ruthenians sing loud and clear. What’s up with that?

Help!

I don’t know that Sanctus. I’ve never heard it, and I’m a musician. I’m guessing a lot of people, including many younger Catholics, have never heard it.

So my first answer to your question is–Give us the MUSIC!

Whenever I’ve been in Catholic Churches that use chant, there is never any music (notes, not just words), and I stand there like a fool and don’t sing, because I have no clue.

I know that a lot of people don’t know how to read music. But if the music were available, those of us who DO know music would be more likely to read and sing it correctly, and this would help everyone else to learn the music.

Of course, this means that a “method” would have to be devised to tell all of us that “the music for the chants can be found on page 111 of your pew hymnal” or “The music for the chants used in the Mass can be found on the yellow pew cards in the rack in front of you.”

I’ve noticed that Catholic liturgies seem to be very reluctant to include such mundane instructions. It’s as if they expect the Mass to simply float along, and everyone will know what to do.

Well, that obviously that doesn’t happen. Perhaps it’s because the OF allows for so many variation of Mass settings, but many of us know nothing, and those of us who did not grow up with any chant at all in church don’t even know the simplest chants.

It is my opinion that the best “method” for informing the congregation about where the music can be found would be a projected overhead–everyone could see it, even older people who don’t see or hear well. I also like seeing the MUSIC (not just the words) projected in this way. I know, I know–such a common thing profanes the beauty of the church building and/or the nave. I personally don’t think that “useful” things profane anything. I sure appreciate air conditioning vents! Bathrooms profane the beauty of a church, but my goodness, I’m sure glad they’re around!

Another “method” would be a prominent announcement placard at the BACK of the nave, so that as people walked in, they could take note of the page numbers.

And of course, there is the old-fashioned but extremely useful “Hymn List” that many of the older churches (Catholic and Protestant) still use. I like these, and think they would work very well for informing the congregation of where to look to find the music for the chants and other music used in the Mass.

A few years ago on CAF, I asked for the “music” for the chanted Mass responses, and some kind soul posted a link for me. I printed that and used it. Now we have a new translation, and the responses have changed slightly, and once again, I am confused, and I think many other people are confused, too. In our parish, even when there is a simple chanted “Amen,” it is just dreadful. Everyone comes in on a different pitch, everyone sings different notes, and everyone ends on a different pitch. I try not to be disturbed by such human flaws in Masses, but honestly, I have a hard time when the phrase “AMEN” or “I agree” doesn’t agree! It just doesn’t seem very strong.

Anyway, I think the first step to helping Catholics to sing is give them the music–notes, staffs, time signatures, key signatures–all that very human and earthy stuff that is necessary even for chant to happen. We’re not angels. We can’t just “emote” music.

 

[Cat]

One other thing–IF the chant or the song is in Latin, write it out phonetically.

I know, that probably destroys the esoterical and historical beauty of the language.

But really now, most of us, even those of us who are musicians, don’t instinctively know how to read Latin. We mispronounce the words, and especially on some of the weird vowel combos, we’re not certain, so we utterly mangle it, and then we stop singing because we know we’re messing this whole thing up.

In a choir, the choir director (who probably isn’t paid) is teaching us all the proper pronunciation. And over the years, I’ve noticed discrepancies in how musicans and conductors pronounce Latin–apparently it isn’t as universal as some people think it is.

So IMO, phonetic spelling of the Latin in the musical score is imperative if the people are truly expected to join in and sing.

Like I said, we’re not angels. (Besides, the language spoken in heaven is either Math or Swedish, not Latin.)

 

[Sarabande]

I didn’t want to dig up the old thread from last year, but I still have the same question.

Can we get Catholics to sing?

Sometimes we hand out processional hymns at our parish before the mass, and nada.

How can we get people in the pew to sing?

How can we get them to sing the Mass ordinaries, for example, something as well known as this Sanctus, from the Missa de Angelis, which everyone knows?

I read on another thread that the Ruthenians sing loud and clear. What’s up with that?

Help!

There are a lot of reasons which people here have already pointed out. I think another part of it is cultural and it doesn’t just apply to Catholics or a particular rite. The society, in general, more specifically, the American culture, tends to be rather passive when it comes to music - singing or playing. They would rather listen than to create. With recorded music, people have grown to feel that they no longer need to learn how to play instruments or to learn how to sing in order to entertain themselves, family and each other. Thus, less people get involved with being an active participant in making music.

So, how do you change the cultural thinking… at least in your own parish? One of the things is to start from the time they are young. Develop a plan for over the next few months and years to get kids more involved with the music program and learn music. Have the director teach them basic music skills ie. reading music notation, time signatures, dynamics, etc. so that within a year or more they can be able to pick up a hymnal and read the melodies and harmonies, if the hymnal provides that. Now this all depends on whether the parish can afford a music director or are fortunate enough who has someone who donate their time to do this.

A big challenge is getting parents on board with this. It’s important to drive home the fact that singing in choirs is a team effort and that it is just as important to have everyone there for Sunday mass as it would be to be there for a sports team or dance team on any given weekend or week day. This includes showing up for practice. When people don’t show up or don’t sing out, you aren’t supporting each other and it can be more intimidating to want to sing out when you are afraid that you will be the only voice heard. This team effort mentality, I think, will carry through to the pews when they grow up and leave the choirs and start their own families, or even when people in the pews feel like they are being supported enough by the choir to sing out.

If it is not possible to start a children’s music program, then work with what you have. As others have mentioned, use familiar, tried-and-true hymns with strong, simple rhythms. Too much syncopation is difficult for the average person. Don’t switch up the mass parts too often. Maybe only learn one or two new mass parts a year and use them every week per season, rather than switching up every week. I am familiar with the mass you link and actually own the music, but it isn’t something commonly used at a typical, suburban parish, which may explain why people aren’t singing it where you are. For that particular mass I think it should be done every week for at least half a year so that it is ingrained into everyone’s brains. Then, you don’t have to do for that long the next year.

I’m assuming you have an organist at your parish? Organists need to play cleanly and strongly offering just enough support for the congregation so that they will sing. Some organists play too softly that you could barely hear it and I, as the cantor, feel like I’m often the lone voice. I’ve had those kinds of organists tell me that they don’t play any louder because they think it is being too ostentatious. In reality, they aren’t doing their job of supporting the congregation so it turns the organist and cantor into the soloists.
Some organists play too loudly that the congregation doesn’t want to sing. There has to be a happy medium… not too loud, not too soft. i find when that happens, the people will sing very well.

Cantors should sing as far away from the mic as possible during congregational singing, only using the mic if it seems that the congregation is having trouble. Of course, some priests and music directors insist that you almost swallow the mic as this culture has become too accustomed to the miked voice rather than the natural voice.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Want all the music for the chant Masses? Get your parish to purchase The Parish Book of Chant. Everyone will have everything at their fingertips. Just have to learn to read Gregorian notation, and it’s not hard to follow if you’re hearing the music at the same time.

 

[TrueLight]

You bring up some good points.

I don’t know that Sanctus. I’ve never heard it, and I’m a musician. I’m guessing a lot of people, including many younger Catholics, have never heard it.

So my first answer to your question is–Give us the MUSIC!

We have started to hand out the words with music, usually for the processional hymn.

Our parish is small and I don’t think we have the funds to have copies of the whole mass copied regularly. One way we can go is to purchase this St Edmund Campion Missal & Hymnal when it comes out. It is supposed to cost about $17, which is not bad, and then we can use inserts for the hymns.

Of course, this means that a “method” would have to be devised to tell all of us that “the music for the chants can be found on page 111 of your pew hymnal” or “The music for the chants used in the Mass can be found on the yellow pew cards in the rack in front of you.”

Another important point. I’ve thought about putting up a hymn board but wondered if anyone would really jot down the page numbers. One FSSP chapel has the hymn board up front on the side, but the chapel is small, so it can be seen by one. They list which Mass and which Credo is going to be sung that day. So maybe we can have the above missal and hymnal in the pews and the folks can be “trained” to pick up an insert as they come in.

 

[TrueLight]

Want all the music for the chant Masses? Get your parish to purchase The Parish Book of Chant. Everyone will have everything at their fingertips. Just have to learn to read Gregorian notation, and it’s not hard to follow if you’re hearing the music at the same time.

We have that in the choir loft. It does have a lot of the chants, but not all.

 

[TrueLight]

There are a lot of reasons which people here have already pointed out. I think another part of it is cultural and it doesn’t just apply to Catholics or a particular rite. The society, in general, more specifically, the American culture, tends to be rather passive when it comes to music - singing or playing. They would rather listen than to create. With recorded music, people have grown to feel that they no longer need to learn how to play instruments or to learn how to sing in order to entertain themselves, family and each other. Thus, less people get involved with being an active participant in making music.

So, how do you change the cultural thinking… at least in your own parish? One of the things is to start from the time they are young. Develop a plan for over the next few months and years to get kids more involved with the music program and learn music. Have the director teach them basic music skills ie. reading music notation, time signatures, dynamics, etc. so that within a year or more they can be able to pick up a hymnal and read the melodies and harmonies, if the hymnal provides that. Now this all depends on whether the parish can afford a music director or are fortunate enough who has someone who donate their time to do this.

A big challenge is getting parents on board with this. It’s important to drive home the fact that singing in choirs is a team effort and that it is just as important to have everyone there for Sunday mass as it would be to be there for a sports team or dance team on any given weekend or week day. This includes showing up for practice. When people don’t show up or don’t sing out, you aren’t supporting each other and it can be more intimidating to want to sing out when you are afraid that you will be the only voice heard. This team effort mentality, I think, will carry through to the pews when they grow up and leave the choirs and start their own families, or even when people in the pews feel like they are being supported enough by the choir to sing out.

If it is not possible to start a children’s music program, then work with what you have. As others have mentioned, use familiar, tried-and-true hymns with strong, simple rhythms. Too much syncopation is difficult for the average person. Don’t switch up the mass parts too often. Maybe only learn one or two new mass parts a year and use them every week per season, rather than switching up every week. I am familiar with the mass you link and actually own the music, but it isn’t something commonly used at a typical, suburban parish, which may explain why people aren’t singing it where you are. For that particular mass I think it should be done every week for at least half a year so that it is ingrained into everyone’s brains. Then, you don’t have to do for that long the next year.

I’m assuming you have an organist at your parish? Organists need to play cleanly and strongly offering just enough support for the congregation so that they will sing. Some organists play too softly that you could barely hear it and I, as the cantor, feel like I’m often the lone voice. I’ve had those kinds of organists tell me that they don’t play any louder because they think it is being too ostentatious. In reality, they aren’t doing their job of supporting the congregation so it turns the organist and cantor into the soloists.
Some organists play too loudly that the congregation doesn’t want to sing. There has to be a happy medium… not too loud, not too soft. i find when that happens, the people will sing very well.

Cantors should sing as far away from the mic as possible during congregational singing, only using the mic if it seems that the congregation is having trouble. Of course, some priests and music directors insist that you almost swallow the mic as this culture has become too accustomed to the miked voice rather than the natural voice.

Thanks for the tips. We have like 1 kid at our parish lol.

But maybe we can do the same thing with adults. Our organists are great!

I’m only referring to the TLM, so we don’t have a cantor in the same way as the OF, although there are some solo sections of the propers for the cantor.

Familiarity seems to be a common theme with all these suggestions. Even though we do follow whatever Mass setting is appropriate for the day (I have no idea how that is decided), and I think that is a good thing. We can certainly repeat some of the hymns so people become familiar with them.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

We have that in the choir loft. It does have a lot of the chants, but not all.

True, but more than enough for most parishes.

 

[Sarabande]

Thanks for the tips. We have like 1 kid at our parish lol.

But maybe we can do the same thing with adults. Our organists are great!

LOL!!! Well, that would pose as a problem with getting a children’s choir. But I agree that you could try it with the adults. If you get enough of them to dedicate time to this, it could work. You know your parish better than I do, so think of a way to present this to your parish in the best possible light and work with the organists to help you. I think a lot of people understand the importance of team work when describing a sports team, work team, dance team, etc. but they often don’t associate it with how it is also important for choirs or even as a congregation when you are expected to sing together. If every everyone expects the other person to “cover” them, then it will be a half-hearted attempt at singing, if that. You are so fortunate to have more than one organist!

I’m only referring to the TLM, so we don’t have a cantor in the same way as the OF, although there are some solo sections of the propers for the cantor.

Familiarity seems to be a common theme with all these suggestions. Even though we do follow whatever Mass setting is appropriate for the day (I have no idea how that is decided), and I think that is a good thing. We can certainly repeat some of the hymns so people become familiar with them.

I forgot that you do the EF mass. Sorry. Yeah, the use of the cantor is completely different, if they are even used. All of the EFs I’ve attended never used a cantor. It was always with a full choir with the solo sections as you mentioned (and never with the use of the mic ). So, I would focus on maybe building up a choir to help support with any of the congregational singing. I’ve found that a strong choir definitely helps. And as mentioned already, familiarity. I know you guys more than likely use strong, simple traditional hymns, so there shouldn’t be a problem with rhythmic difficulty.

Most hymns are composed within the natural vocal ranges of many people, which the exception of those with very loooowwwww voices, so if you have people who are trained well in terms of singing with their full body so that it doesn’t sound like they are always in the stratosphere, it can help a person sing more and better. I’ve said this a few times in other threads, but I’ve had people come up thanking me for singing a hymn in what they thought was a lower key than what another cantor would sing, so that they could sing along better. Funny thing was, neither I nor the organist changed the keys. We always used the exact same music and exact same key for every mass. I found that when a person doesn’t sing with a balanced voice, it can either psychologically sound too low or too high. A lot of old ladies are targeted for singing too high. Most of the time, they actually aren’t singing too high or in a completely different key. It’s just that they only know how to tap into the upper head voice frequency of their sound rather than a balanced one. So, it can sound too ear-piercing or shrill.

I know that sometimes registrations for organs can make you think something is an octave higher or lower than what it is. I’ve, personally, been thrown myself (and I read music!!! So it can happen to the best of us)when this has happened and have started singing something an octave higher than what was called for and that is frightening!!! (Imagine having to sing a B or C two octaves above middle C because you started off an octave higher than what was written.) It’s like everything goes in slow motion. You know something is wrong but your body can’t stop.

 

[englishredrose]

I haven’t anything more helpful to add and bearing in mind I’m anglican

The Priest tried a newish venture from a suggestion of the prayer group and had a period of silence through communion with the choir singing a reflective piece.

This did not go down well with those who like to sing as it meant they couldn’t sing all of a sudden. We are now back to the congregation being able to sing in the communion as there was definate friction.

Perhaps your church might try period of silence at communion and discover how popular singing actually is. We only miss it if no longer have it. It may spurr them on to sing I mean.

Plus it may feel like people aren’t singing but you got to walk past them to hear that they are actually singing. Just not singing out but under ones breath kind of singing. And as someone earlier suggested if most people in the pew are singing quietly then it takes a brave soul to sing out.

Hope you get somewhere as there is nothing like a good sing to uplift our spirits though we are not there for that but.

 

[TrueLight]

Plus it may feel like people aren’t singing but you got to walk past them to hear that they are actually singing. Just not singing out but under ones breath kind of singing. And as someone earlier suggested if most people in the pew are singing quietly then it takes a brave soul to sing out.

I have some well placed moles in the congregation to confirm that.

 

[thomasf]

Get better music.

 

[Usige]

Get better music.

Second that. Spent 10+ years singing bass and octo-bass in choirs and ensembles of anywhere from 8 to 180 people, but I will not sing most of the hymns at the territorial parish. I will gladly sing chant and traditional hymns, but my soul weeps each time I hear most of the stuff on Sunday.