Can We Get Catholics to Sing? - Part Deux

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We sound good at my parish and belt it out!

These help:

Good acoustics/ old church/ long reverb time.

Big loud pipe organ in the back loft.

Big loud choir in the back loft.

Songs written to be sung by the people, not performed.

Sung Psalm.

Kyrie, Gloria, Pater, Sanctus, Agnus all unchanging.

Priest who belts it out, too.
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
I have vocal lessons and my teacher says I have a good voice, but my voice just doesn’t agree with Church music. I simply can’t sing it. This is because the parish I go to is full of old ladies who have created their own voice range that is far beyond soprano and it is difficult for me to keep my tenor one voice not to try and conform to their pitch. Plus, I am highly uncomfortable when singing in front of my family, and I sing relatively powerfully and loudly. I think not singing is a problem we have and we should fix it, but I also think perhaps converting some Protestants that can sing to lead the charge would be a sound plan. Josh Groban and Michael Buble, anyone?
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I really really really dislike snide remarks about old ladies.

Did you know that the little old lady sitting next to you nursed her husband for 15 years while he slowly died of Alzheimers disease.
Did you know that little old lady across the hall was a nurse in WWII or the Korean War and saw more death than you can ever imagine.
Did you know that the little old lady who prays daily the Rosary buried four of her children who were killed in an accident.

What do you know about little old ladies who have suffered, lived, prayed and worked harder in life than you can ever imagine. Many little old ladies have buried sons, daughters, husbands, mothers, father, brothers and sisters. They deserve respect and admiration for clinging to their faith in spite of disappointment that have destroyed far weaker people.

So they sing out of your range. Sing an octive below them. I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about because with age most women’s voice become lower not higher.
 
:sad_yes:

The one that bugs me is changing the songs every Mass, so we can’t become familiar, and, if they ever do play a familiar hymn, they have to give it a completely unfamiliar setting, such as a solo “gospel” style for what should be a simple congregational hymn.

I’m enjoying my little rant here 🙂
johnnykins said:
Why Catholics don’t sing:
  1. terrible, unfamiliar, syncopated, insipid, (occasionally heretical or suspect) hymns no one except the choir likes or has ever heard of - **changed every Mass so no one becomes familiar. **
  2. the tempo is all wrong - too fast usually for a congregation - or syncopated as above
  3. no 4 part music is EVER provided, so if you’re not a soprano, you’re out of luck
  4. OFTEN no music at all is provided - lyrics only just to keep you guessing. This is especially common in direct proportion to unfamiliarity and syncopation
  5. Ordinary setting varied to make sure no one learns that either
  6. weird notation - some of the notation I’ve seen is just so unusual that it makes one shake one’s head
  7. the cantor with arms all akimbo looking ridiculous - can’t stand that
  8. something other than what is provided is actually played…that’s a favorite!!!
  9. people keep saying you pray twice…the use of that phrase needs to have excommunication latae sententiae attached for the next 50 years to stop the drivel
Pick good, singable hymns at a reasonable tempo providing all 4 parts - like they do in every Protestant Church - and have the hymns/ordinary setting used regularly and folks will start singing…MD’s seems to hate Holy God We Praise Thy Name…but even with the slightly revised current version - people sing it. Continue the crud and people will never sing…
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HelenRose said:
I really really really dislike snide remarks about old ladies.

Did you know that the little old lady sitting next to you nursed her husband for 15 years while he slowly died of Alzheimers disease.
Did you know that little old lady across the hall was a nurse in WWII or the Korean War and saw more death than you can ever imagine.
Did you know that the little old lady who prays daily the Rosary buried four of her children who were killed in an accident.

What do you know about little old ladies who have suffered, lived, prayed and worked harder in life than you can ever imagine. Many little old ladies have buried sons, daughters, husbands, mothers, father, brothers and sisters. They deserve respect and admiration for clinging to their faith in spite of disappointment that have destroyed far weaker people.

So they sing out of your range. Sing an octive below them. I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about because with age most women’s voice become lower not higher.
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Thank you for this reminder. A lot of us live in societies where advanced age is not respected and honored. Since we eventually all end up there unless we die early, it’s good for us to be reminded of that.
 
TrueLight said:
Thank you for this reminder. A lot of us live in societies where advanced age is not respected and honored. Since we eventually all end up there unless we die early, it’s good for us to be reminded of that.
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Amen! Not only that, in the parishes I have been part of in my lifetime, it is always those same “little old ladies” who keep everything going in the church (including the choir). May God bless them all!
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Amen! Not only that, in the parishes I have been part of in my lifetime, it is always those same “little old ladies” who keep everything going in the church (including the choir). May God bless them all!
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And the food! 👍
 
HelenRose said:
I really really really dislike snide remarks about old ladies.

Did you know that the little old lady sitting next to you nursed her husband for 15 years while he slowly died of Alzheimers disease.
Did you know that little old lady across the hall was a nurse in WWII or the Korean War and saw more death than you can ever imagine.
Did you know that the little old lady who prays daily the Rosary buried four of her children who were killed in an accident.

What do you know about little old ladies who have suffered, lived, prayed and worked harder in life than you can ever imagine. Many little old ladies have buried sons, daughters, husbands, mothers, father, brothers and sisters. They deserve respect and admiration for clinging to their faith in spite of disappointment that have destroyed far weaker people.

So they sing out of your range. Sing an octive below them. I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about because with age most women’s voice become lower not higher.
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I don’t think the poster was making a snide remark. And I have no intentions of picking on anyone as well. Unless my comment was misconstrued because I used the word ‘old’. I’m very much aware of what older women do for the Church.
 
I love to sing (some question on if others like to hear me)
At Sat Vigil the participation is great.
Mostly retired people in Az. We have no musical accompanyment.The cantor’s just start us off.
Its amazing how good it sounds.
The idea of music is remove us from our flesh and get us into the spirit. Mass really can’t be comprehended unless you are in the spirit.
Most old timers know the melody of the best hymns without a cantor. Truly they get us into the spirt
The Sunday Masses have either Choir or instrumental. For some reason no one else except me seems to sing.
I have a problem with some cantor’s .
Rather than lead the congregation to song,it becomes a performance.
I like to listen to music but its purpose in mass is for participation not appreciation.
The most beautiful. mess I ever attended was back in my old parish in Connecticut.
We would in English chant the Kyrie Gloriia Psalm response,The big Amen Holy Holy Anne Our Father.
With Organ accompanyment.
Next time you say the Big Amen remember the word of a Church Father
“When we say the big Amen it is so loud and with so much conviction nearby Pagan Temples Shake”.
We had a Masonic Lodge across the street .
My goal was to make it tremple.
 
I have a problem with some cantor’s .
Rather than lead the congregation to song,it becomes a performance.
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Can you go into more about how you can tell leading from performing?
“When we say the big Amen it is so loud and with so much conviction nearby Pagan Temples Shake”.
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I think that was St Augustine. I can’t even fathom any loud Great Amens, LOL.

It’s awesome that you sing!
 
johnnykins said:
  1. no 4 part music is EVER provided, so if you’re not a soprano, you’re out of luck
  2. OFTEN no music at all is provided - lyrics only just to keep you guessing. This is especially common in direct proportion to unfamiliarity and syncopation
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I can honestly say that in the parishes where I grew up, having those would have made no difference - only a handful of people could read music. Almost every household had someone who played the piano, the fiddle, the guitar, etc. by ear, but it wasn’t until I went to high school that I met people who actually took – and gave – music lessons. Music wasn’t taught in any but the city schools, if at all. I dare say that the majority of our parish choir don’t read music.
 
jeannetherese said:
Good point! When I first started assisting at the E.F., I took my cues from the person in front of me.😃

There was a lot to learn…and the person in fromt may well have been learning too…😃

Many people are discovering the E.F. for the first time and will not know when and where to make their voices heard. Permission to sing might be all they need to discover what the norms are for the E.F.
A blurb in the bulletin might be a great supplement as well.👍
May God bless your endeavors. Amen.
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See, I grew up when the EF was the OF 😉 and no one sang but the choir and no one responded but the altar servers. Dialogue EF Masses were never part of my parish experience so I would never presume to sing at an EF Mass unless invited to do so.

In my baptismal parish there are still no hymnals, the choir sings and you shut up and let them. The glares that come your way, unless you happen to be a visitor with a particularly fine voice, are not worth it.
 
Phemie said:
I dare say that the majority of our parish choir don’t read music.
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I think this is the norm for most parishes.

Oh, people may realize that one note is higher than another and they may realize that for this note the basses are the same as the tenors and for the next note they aren’t. But I don’t think most parish choir members, let alone people in the pews, can sing an unfamiliar harmony simply by looking at printed notes.
 
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TrueLight:
I’ve thought about putting up a hymn board but wondered if anyone would really jot down the page numbers. One FSSP chapel has the hymn board up front on the side, but the chapel is small, so it can be seen by one. They list which Mass and which Credo is going to be sung that day. So maybe we can have the above missal and hymnal in the pews and the folks can be “trained” to pick up an insert as they come in.
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They used to announce the hymn in our parish and it was really annoying. We bought wood and one of our parishioners made us a nice hymn board. It sits just inside the sanctuary, can be seen from anywhere in the pews and you’ll see people looking up what we’ll be singing as soon as they sit in their pews. Works very well. If your church is really big you might need a few, strategically placed.
 
I like singing, but I’m not good, so if the song has lots of high notes, I almost sing in a whisper because it’s too hard to sing those notes.
 
anp1215 said:
I like singing, but I’m not good, so if the song has lots of high notes, I almost sing in a whisper because it’s too hard to sing those notes.
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Trying to sing high notes in a whisper will only make them harder to hit.
 
HelenRose said:
I really really really dislike snide remarks about old ladies.

Did you know that the little old lady sitting next to you nursed her husband for 15 years while he slowly died of Alzheimers disease.
Did you know that little old lady across the hall was a nurse in WWII or the Korean War and saw more death than you can ever imagine.
Did you know that the little old lady who prays daily the Rosary buried four of her children who were killed in an accident.

What do you know about little old ladies who have suffered, lived, prayed and worked harder in life than you can ever imagine. Many little old ladies have buried sons, daughters, husbands, mothers, father, brothers and sisters. They deserve respect and admiration for clinging to their faith in spite of disappointment that have destroyed far weaker people.

So they sing out of your range. Sing an octive below them. I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about because with age most women’s voice become lower not higher.
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What was snide? Posters said that it is difficult to sing in tune because the old ladies sing in a different range. I think you are being a tad defensive.
 
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