Can We Get Catholics to Sing?

[ProVobis]

I guess I’ll just come out and say it - I don’t want to sing that much. A few well known hymns, like Tantum Ergo, are great. Otherwise, I want the choir to do the singing. I’ll pray.

I think I’ll join you. Especially after hearing we can’t sing the Protestant and new-age hymns as well as the Protestants.

 

[liturgyluver]

I guess I’ll just come out and say it - I don’t want to sing that much. A few well known hymns, like Tantum Ergo, are great. Otherwise, I want the choir to do the singing. I’ll pray.

I love singing Tantum Ergo during Benediction - it is so powerful, but not sure about it during an ordinary mass - except perhaps as a choral Communion anthem. It’s great when the choir sings choral pieces or mass settings, but hymns are meant to be sung congregationally. It will be interesting to see people’s reactions to the efforts now being made to improve liturgical music in the Catholic church. I personally think most people are with you on this and would rather not sing in which case just dispense with the hymns and let everyone rush out 15 minutes earlier.

 

[ProVobis]

It will be interesting to see people’s reactions to the efforts now being made to improve liturgical music in the Catholic church.

How so? By simply changing the English wording?

 

[JHow]

Yes, I was just thinking, “Danny Boy” should not be played at a funeral mass. It’s a secular song. Many priests don’t permit it, and boy, does it sometimes cause a problem when they do stand their ground with the family. Once in a while the priests will give in or will permit it played as an instrumental before mass, but most of the time they won’t allow it. Although I attended a funeral once where the hymnal at the church set religious text to the “Danny Boy” melody.

I actually agree with you. I was teasing when I wrote that (I got the impression that Warrenton was not really choked up over “Taste and See”).

But Danny Boy at funerals has happened. I had in mind when John F. Kennedy Jr. and his wife and friend died (plane crash) and I recalled seeing a clip on the news of the service, which was someone singing “Danny Boy”:

washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/jfkjr/stories/memorial072399.htm

I’m not sure if the “service” was a mass, however.

 

[liturgyluver]

How so? By simply changing the English wording?

No. Alongside the introduction of the new wording - which began in the UK on 4 September - dioceses are supporting parishes in improving music: for example workshops have been run on the new chants and mass settings. The expectation is that, on a Sunday at least, the ordinary of the mass is either chanted (rather than simply spoken) to the new words, or the new mass settings are introduced with greater congregational participation. I think alongside this exercise is an effort to make hymns better match to the liturgical year.

 

[TrueLight]

No. Alongside the introduction of the new wording - which began in the UK on 4 September - dioceses are supporting parishes in improving music: for example workshops have been run on the new chants and mass settings. The expectation is that, on a Sunday at least, the ordinary of the mass is either chanted (rather than simply spoken) to the new words, or the new mass settings are introduced with greater congregational participation. I think alongside this exercise is an effort to make hymns better match to the liturgical year.

Yeah, but the new mass settings are still not so wonderful from what I’ve seen.

 

[ProVobis]

No. Alongside the introduction of the new wording - which began in the UK on 4 September - dioceses are supporting parishes in improving music: for example workshops have been run on the new chants and mass settings.

I used to attend Holy Name Cathedral where the late Richard Proulx was the choir director and organist. I don’t think one could improve music to a better singing quality than his. His music fit the words to a tee, not the other way around. No workshops AFAIK, just true singing and attentive listening by all present.

 

[Sarabande]

I used to attend Holy Name Cathedral where the late Richard Proulx was the choir director and organist. I don’t think one could improve music to a better singing quality than his. His music fit the words to a tee, not the other way around. No workshops AFAIK, just true singing and attentive listening by all present.

Yes, I would say that he was one of the better composers during the recent period of liturgical music. We are using his revised arrangements and own compositions for the mass parts.

 

[Warrenton]

I used to attend Holy Name Cathedral where the late Richard Proulx was the choir director and organist. I don’t think one could improve music to a better singing quality than his. His music fit the words to a tee, not the other way around. No workshops AFAIK, just true singing and attentive listening by all present.

If you’re talking about the one in Chi town, man, they trashed that place.

When I hear Proulx, all I can think about is Cecil B DeMille’s “Ben Hur.”

 

[ProVobis]

If you’re talking about the one in Chi town, man, they trashed that place.

That’s the one. And I haven’t been there since the 90’s. Had a fire there several years ago and they closed the place for repairs for several months. Actually it was closed twice for repairs.

 

[tomas10]

1st. Shouldn’t the music be Catholic in accordance with the liturgy. We at our church also had little participation. But now we have a movie screen that covers part of the crucifix and takes away the focus from the cross. Also they now also sing baptist music you hear on the radio. The choir also has a a coronet that is loud and annoying. The volume on the Bose speakers or amps is so high you can feel the vibration on your body. In the meantime the lyrics are displayed on the screen. So not only is your attention away from God but the priest also. All this to get everyone to sing. It is so wrong! I’m just glad its done only in one mass. So be careful what you wish for.

 

[liturgyluver]

1st. Shouldn’t the music be Catholic in accordance with the liturgy. We at our church also had little participation. But now we have a movie screen that covers part of the crucifix and takes away the focus from the cross. Also they now also sing baptist music you hear on the radio. The choir also has a a coronet that is loud and annoying. The volume on the Bose speakers or amps is so high you can feel the vibration on your body. In the meantime the lyrics are displayed on the screen. So not only is your attention away from God but the priest also. All this to get everyone to sing. It is so wrong! I’m just glad its done only in one mass. So be careful what you wish for.

Screens are an abomination, and should, in my opinion be banned. I don’t see why hymn books or music sheets can’t be used like they are in most churches.

 

[Phemie]

Screens are an abomination, and should, in my opinion be banned. I don’t see why hymn books or music sheets can’t be used like they are in most churches.

I’d only ever experienced a screen at the local Pentecostal church, where a lot of cultural activities take place. Then in February I was at my daughter’s parish in Ontario and there in the sanctuary, a screen. Yuck! They used it for the lyrics of the hymns, which were already in the missalettes everyone was holding, and they projected different pictures throughout Mass. What the heck was that all about?? Why did they feel we should be watching the screen when we weren’t singing?

Adding the screen to the sanctuary of this 90 year old Gothic style church stikes such a discordant note! On their website they explain that they have put ‘technology at the service of the Liturgy’

As much as I hated the screen, I hated even more that they changed the words of the Mass, though such abuse is not rare at French Masses in Canada. It’s only in French Masses that I’ve encountered priests (even a bishop) breaking the Host during the Consecration.

 

[tomas10]

I strongly agree. I didn’t mention the cost of the screen which was in the thousands. And we’re also paying for the missals etc. Waste of money don’t you think?
Tomas10

 

[wisdomseeker]

It depends of the hymns. All are welcome song. No i wouldnt. and many others that dosnt even mention God on them. it is all nonsense.

 

[quilisma]

Screens are an abomination, and should, in my opinion be banned. I don’t see why hymn books or music sheets can’t be used like they are in most churches.

I wonder if there are those in the parish offices who don’t expect this TV-saturated generation to know how to read the books and missals…?

 

[Cat]

I wonder if there are those in the parish offices who don’t expect this TV-saturated generation to know how to read the books and missals…?

I’ve wondered that myself, considering how few people actually open the hymnals and missalettes in our Masses.

Good for you for opening your hymnal or missalette every time! Even if you don’t actually sing the hymn for some good reason (sore throat, etc.), at least you are able to follow the words, check out the Scriptural references, see what the melody is (e.g., Hyferdol, etc.) and who the composer is/was and when he/she wrote the hymn.

 

[Cat]

I hope that some of you who feel that you sing badly will change your minds and join in the singing.

Yesterday during Mass, I was privileged to sit near an elderly gentleman who opened his missalette and sang every hymn.

Very badly.

His voice was cracked and raspy, and he had no grasp of the melody or rhythm.

But to me, he sounded beautiful. The joy on his face was so uplifting. And the intensity with which he followed the words in the missalette was convicting–what a great example he was setting for all of us, especially children.

Remember, I am musician, and so I love hearing good singing.

But I also love hearing sincere singing from a good person.

The fact is, there are very few ministries in the Church that all of us join together to do. Prayer is the main ministry that all of us can do together, at the same time, in the same place, in unison, strong and mighty together!

Singing is a form of prayer.

Would you abstain from praying the other prayers of the Mass along with the priest?

E.g., even if other people are holding hands or raising hands or chatting or checking their iPhone, would you stand there in the pew and refuse to pray the Our Father when it is that time in the Mass?

Or would you refuse to pray with Father during the first part of the Mass, when he asks for forgiveness for our sins?

Or how about joining in with the prayers of the Church–would you refuse to join in and stand there deliberately ignoring the lector (or the priest) as they offer up the various intentions?

Then why would you deliberately abstain from singing the hymns and songs of the Church and spend that time praying your own prayers and thinking your own thoughts?

Even if you don’t agree with a certain hymn, wouldn’t it be good to have respect for those bishops who at some point, deemed the hymn acceptable for your church missalette?

I realize that the bishops don’t go over the hymns with a fine toothbrush seeking out non-Catholic theology. But others do this for them (including lay people)–some of these songs are over 40 years old!

Don’t you think that if any of the hymns or songs truly contained non-Catholic theology, that after 40 years someone would have managed to catch the attention of the bishops and say, “Hey, um…Most Esteemed Apostle, could you please see that this song is deleted from the hymnal because it contains anti-Catholic theology?” And if that person was correct, don’t you think the good bishops would have said, “Oh, my, that song has to go right this instant!” and the song would have been stricken from future printings of that missalette?

Do our bishops really have so little power? Even though they are apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, is it really true that the publishing company has more power than they do to determine what pieces will be included in the missalettes?

Or even if the publishing company does manage to continue to print anti-Catholic hymns, why wouldn’t the bishop announce in his diocese that certain songs will not be sung ever in any of the Masses because they contain anti-Catholic theology?

Is there any possibility that even if you think a hymn or song contains anti-Catholic theology, that you could be mistaken and your bishop has made the correct call to allow the hymn to be sung in the Masses in his diocese?

Even if you don’t sing for some reason (e.g., hymn feels too high for you and you don’t know how to sing in a head voice or a falsetto), why wouldn’t you at least open the book and follow along with the words? Or do what I do when I’m feeling sore-throaty–I lip sync the words without making a sound. Or at least keep a beautific expression on your face as you listen to others sing.

At this point in history, the songs and hymns are part of the prayer of the Mass. It seems to me that deliberately abstaining is to ignore the prescribed liturgy of the Mass and substitute your own liturgy. I thought this was wrong. I thought the whole point of the liturgy was to keep us all on the same track and not allow people to go off on tangents and do their own thing.

 

[Warrenton]

Would you abstain from praying the other prayers of the Mass along with the priest?

Without going into the finer points, and taking the question from what I think is your point of view instead of mine, the answer is yes.

Here’s why: attending mass is the obligation. I may or may not agree with how the mass is said. The Church does not give me the liberty of conscience to refuse to attend mass.

However, nothing in the creed, and nothing in dogma, compels me to believe that this or that prayer, or this or that song, or this or that gesture, is appropriate for my spirituality.

When people join in prayer, it is a form of declaring their agreement. It is wrong to express agreement where agreement is lacking. If I sang “Taste and See” I would be in essence, declaring something that I do not believe. The Church does not require me to do this.

Hope that answers the question!

 

[Wonderette]

I sing! I used to think that I wasn’t able to sing. If you can talk, then you can make noise. That’s called music when you sing in Mass. If your Church has a choir, then you can follow along.

I am a member of my Church’s choir. I am a Catholic, and I love to sing.