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Booklover
Guest
Certainly! Also we do not issue death threats to those who criticize our faith!
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B
Booklover
Guest
Your questions do not sound like those of someone who wants to learn about our faith, but someone who is trying to disprove it!
Vickie
K
Khalfan
Guest
Thanks buddy. But I prefer what I said. Let the Bible have its chance to prove the truth to me. Don’t worry my friend, many ones are replying my with their answers. If it is possible, Give it a try to find answers for those questions instead of argueing.
K
Khalfan
Guest
So good of you.
M
Montalban
Guest
By ‘generalisation’ you mean what Islam stands for.
How can we work together when Moslems are trained into thinking Christians and Jews are deceivers? It’s central to Islam, 'cause it’s in the Koran. They can’t take us as close friends, because of this.
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Montalban
Guest
You’re more than welcome to join us.
And if you change your mind, we won’t demand your death either
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Khalfan,
Couple of more answers for you here, I suggest you go to the correct forum to ask the rest of the questions, as i do not have the time to do the rest of them.
Dolphinlove
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137926
Couple of more answers for you here, I suggest you go to the correct forum to ask the rest of the questions, as i do not have the time to do the rest of them.
Dolphinlove
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137926
K
Khalfan
Guest
The prophecy was 3 days and 3 nights (Mathew 12:40). Now, the dispute is that if it was thursday sabbath or saturday sabbath. If it is saturday, Jesus was in the tomb during Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night. 2 Nights and one day. If it was thursday Sabbath, Jesus was in the tomb during wednesday night, thursday day, thursday night, fariday day, friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night. 4 Nights and 3 Day. We have to confirm 2 things here. Was it thursday sabbath or saturday sabbath? Is the saturday night is to include or not? After all, it is his side of answer. If we go to any other apologist, we will find something else. Like kencollins.com/question-09.htm (He says, just believe it is Friday to Saturday; don’t ask questions!!), wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuQA_qaID=1&cuTopic_topicID=813&cuItem_itemID=15373 (Here he confirms it is from Friday to Sunday (he included part of Sunday as well)).
Does any one have a proper answer with evidence, instead of some assumptions?
K
Khalfan
Guest
What is your concern about good friday?
K
Khalfan
Guest
Its up to you, how do you see questions. May be you can suggest me a way of asking.
K
Khalfan
Guest
So kind of you.You’re more than welcome to join us.
And if you change your mind, we won’t demand your death either
K
Khalfan
Guest
I will. Thanks for that.
K
Khalfan
Guest
where?
M
Montalban
Guest
You’re more than welcome
"Montalban:
The Koran claims we mix up falsehoods from the truth
[3.71] O followers of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with the falsehood and hide the truth while you know?
It is why you’re called upon to fight us, because we want to ‘extinguish Allah’s light with our mouths’…
9: 29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
30 And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!
31 They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."
32 **They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) **want to extinguish Allah’s Light **(with which Muhammad has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafirun (disbelievers) hate (it).
Thus
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[70.42] Therefore leave them alone to go on with the false discourses and to sport until they come face to face with that day of theirs with which they are threatened;
K
Khalfan
Guest
I can prove that with clear documents (not just comments or allegations). rememeber Mark 16:9-20? The most important problem I found in the bible, the missing passages such as… Mark’s gospels 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:26, 15:28, Luke’s gospel 17:36, Mathew’s gospels 12:47 (New International Version- Foot note says it is not there in some manuscripts), 17:21, 18:11, 21:44 (New International Version- Foot note says it is not there in some manuscripts), 23:14, John’s gospels 5:4, 7:53 – 8:11. Who removed it? If later found that it was fake, later addition so removed. Then who added these to the bible earlier? If I say that, there is no wonder to find a new passage in a coming version of bible, as Jesus (AS) says to the disciples that he is god and to worship him when he was alive. And there is no wonder, in a fine morning we don’t find the very same verses you used as Jesus (AS) claims he is god or son of god or one of three.
Fight by mouth. Fight phisically when it is requered. Even Jesus asked to fight if required. (Luke 22:38) The same what all the prophets did including Mohamed SAWS). We can fight in internet but in kind way. May be you don’t accept but we have restrictions even in war.
(the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) **want to extinguish Allah’s Light **(with which Muhammad has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafirun (disbelievers) hate (it).
Allah is talking about giving partners to GOD, like son for GOD and Holy spirit.
It’s applicable during war. That is what prophet taught us. Otherwise, God tells us, 'Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, ‘We have Faith in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him’. (Surat al-`Ankabut; 29:46). We follow that. There may be people who don’t follow, who will get punished accordingly. I think ‘Dolphinlove’ is a good christian who took some effort to answer my questions which I deeply appreciate.
This is what we have to do with those who denies the evidence. We can wake a sleepy one, but not some one acts like sleeping.
K
Khalfan
Guest
I didn’t critisize Christianity. Just asked some questions which any true christians can possibly answer.
A
Angelos
Guest
I can show many chapters and verses that signify innovation in the major tenets of Islamic Scripture and thus implies later addition. (For instance, Ishmael’s filial affiliation with Abraham dates back to the late Mecca period!) Therefore, I have my reasons to presume some people added to the Koran the verse implying that it was Ishmael whom Abraham wanted to offer as a sacrifice.
As for evidence of verses added to the Koran at a later time, Nisa 176 is an excellent example:
004: 176 They ask thee for a pronouncement. Say: Allah hath pronounced for you concerning distant kindred. If a man die childless and he have a sister, hers is half the heritage, and he would have inherited from her had she died childless. And if there be two sisters, then theirs are two-thirds of the heritage, and if they be brethren, men and women, unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females. Allah expoundeth unto you, so that ye err not. Allah is Knower of all things.
This verse must ensue verses 11-13 of the same chapter, which prescribe the law of inheritance. However, it was evidently detached from its place and later added to the surah in the last minute by an unknown editor.
More to the point, the linguistic structure of the Koran makes every sort of addition/deletion easier and more plausible than that of the Bible due to being comparatively poor in terms of thematic unity and coherence. It is always possible to tamper with jumbled verses than with well-developed chapters employing the same subject and following a chronological/logical order (unlike the present Koran).
Peace,
Angelos N.
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Montalban
Guest
So, let’s get this one straight. When you ask me to prove the Koranic verses that say Christians deceive Moslems, and I reply, you jump in immediately to attack the Bible?
Which argument do you want to have? A discussion about the Koran, or one about the Bible? And, you seem both a desire to defend the Koranic allegation against Christians but at the same time you want to agree with me by showing what we believe is false. Again, which argument do you wish to have? I’m quite amazed how many times Moslems wish to have every argument at once!
It doesn’t say “Fight by mouth”
And here’s the problem, are you saying we deceive people, with this falsehood, or not? You believe it’s false. You believe we teach it. I said that the Koran says that we deceive people. You deny it, and then say that we do. Which argument do you wish to have?
Islam’s always at war with non-Islam, excepting where non-Islamic powers have accepted Islamic superiority.
You know, all those verses about war…
“Those that make war against Allah and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter.” (Sura 5.33)
“O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers.” (Sura 5.51)
“Allah revealed His will to the angels, saying: ‘I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!’ That was because they defied Allah and His apostle. He that defies Allah and his apostle shall be sternly punished by Allah.” (Sura 8.12-13)
“In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones * one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost.” (Sura 8.37)
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah alone (in the whole world). But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah) then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” (Sura 8.39).
“Muster against them * all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them who are unknown to you but known to Allah.” (Sura 8.60)
“O Prophet, urge on the believers to fight. If there be twenty of you, patient men, they will overcome two hundred; if there be a hundred of you, they will overcome a thousand unbelievers, for they are a people who understand not.” (Sura 8.65)
con’t…**
M
Montalban
Guest
“It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land.” (Sura 8.67).
“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden – such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book * – until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.” (Sura 9.29)
“If you do not go to war, He will punish you sternly, and will replace you by other men.” (Sura 9.39)
“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” (Sura 9.73)
“They * will fight for the cause of Allah, they will slay and be slain.” (Sura 9.111)
“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness, and know that Allah is with the godfearing.” (Sura 9.123)
“When We resolve to raze a city, We first give warning to those of its people who live in comfort. If they persist in sin, judgement is irrevocably passed, and We destroy it utterly.” (Sura 17.16)
“We have destroyed many a sinful nation and replaced them by other men. And when they felt Our Might they took to their heels and fled. They were told: ‘Do not run away. Return to your comforts and to your dwellings. You shall be questioned all.’ ‘Woe betide us, we have done wrong’ was their reply. And this they kept repeating until We mowed them down and put out their light.” (Sura 21.11-15)
“When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take a ransom from them, until war shall lay down her burdens.” (Sura 47.4)
“Mohammed is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” (Sura 48.29)
“May the hands of Abu Lahab [Mohammed’s uncle, who had refused to embrace Islam] perish! Nothing shall his wealth and gains avail him. He shall be burnt in a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with firewood, shall have a rope of fiber around her neck!” (Sura 111.1-5)
“Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden – such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book * – until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.” (Sura 9.29)
“If you do not go to war, He will punish you sternly, and will replace you by other men.” (Sura 9.39)
“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” (Sura 9.73)
“They * will fight for the cause of Allah, they will slay and be slain.” (Sura 9.111)
“O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness, and know that Allah is with the godfearing.” (Sura 9.123)
“When We resolve to raze a city, We first give warning to those of its people who live in comfort. If they persist in sin, judgement is irrevocably passed, and We destroy it utterly.” (Sura 17.16)
“We have destroyed many a sinful nation and replaced them by other men. And when they felt Our Might they took to their heels and fled. They were told: ‘Do not run away. Return to your comforts and to your dwellings. You shall be questioned all.’ ‘Woe betide us, we have done wrong’ was their reply. And this they kept repeating until We mowed them down and put out their light.” (Sura 21.11-15)
“When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take a ransom from them, until war shall lay down her burdens.” (Sura 47.4)
“Mohammed is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” (Sura 48.29)
“May the hands of Abu Lahab [Mohammed’s uncle, who had refused to embrace Islam] perish! Nothing shall his wealth and gains avail him. He shall be burnt in a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with firewood, shall have a rope of fiber around her neck!” (Sura 111.1-5)
- (Surat al-`Ankabut; 29:46). We follow that. There may be people who don’t follow, who will get punished accordingly.
And was this verse abrogated?
Which questions of yours have I not answered?
Huh?*
M
Montalban
Guest
That’s simply not true. Again you need to decide on an argument and stick to it. Above you just gave a swathe of things from the Bible you think we teach that are false.
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