can we have a discussion with Muslims without getting angry

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pro, they lied to me about the persecution of Christians in their countries. Also they lied about Jews. They lied about my faith. And they lied about being opposed to terrorism when in fact they supported it.
al-Takeyya (aka al-Taqiyya) is a form of lying allowed in Islam.

Muhammed permitted lying in order to murder someone

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "**The Prophet said, “You may say it.” **Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, “That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you.” On that, Kab said, “By Allah, you will get tired of him!” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food.” (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, “Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me.” Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, “What do you want?” Ka’b replied, “Mortgage your women to me.” They said, “How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?” Ka’b said, “Then mortgage your sons to me.” They said, “How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people’s saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you.” Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab’s foster brother, Abu Na’ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, “Where are you going at this time?” Kab replied, “None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na’ila have come.” His wife said, “I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka’b said. “They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed.” Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, “When Ka’b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head.” Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka’b replied. “I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume.” Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka’b “Will you allow me to smell your head?” Ka’b said, “Yes.” Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka’b again, “Will you let me (smell your head)?” Ka’b said, “Yes.” When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), “Get at him!” So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf.”
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369
 
Khalfan, it would be easier for those who want to reply, if you did not list so many questions at one time.

Vickie
  • Why was Jesus in the tomb for only one and a half day at the most, when he said he would be there three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)? Surely the son of God would say precisely what he means, wouldn’t he?
 
How do you know that they’re not lying to you as well?? The fact remains that Muhammad told his followers that it was okay to lie on certain occasions. Once a religion gives the green light to something like this, what’s going to keep its adherents from finding justification for doing it whenever it becomes expedient?
Before passing a comment ask a muslim why it is.
 
Oh, I see. No, the questions don’t make me angry, and you asking them does not either. I guess I am just puzzled why you would? You are a Muslim, and this is a Catholic forum. You surely are not in here so that you can become Catholic! I also doubt that any answers to those questions will change your mind about your faith, or that Catholic faith, either, so what is the point?
I asked some questions. try to answer so that I can learn catholism.
 
And how did you find out they were lying?

What were the specific lies about:

Christians

Jews

and Terrorism?

If your conversations with me are any indication, I would say you’re calling them liars when in reality it’s that they don’t agree with your assessment of the world situation. Unless you are infallible on matters of world affairs and Islamic teaching, I’d say you should be a lot more charitable with throwing around the charge that Muslims lie to you.
I will give you examples. You remember my Egyptian friend who insisted the Copts were not persecuted. When I proved this he admitted they were and that they deserved it. He lied. Muslim anti-Semitism is not hard to find, I’m amazed you need examples. But a Muslim told me that Jews were destroying Christian shrines, it proved to be false. In fact Muslims destroy our churches. Many Muslims have told me that they oppose terrorism, but when asked if they are against the terrorism organizations like Hamas and Hezbullah they suddenly get cold feet. You can’t be opposed to terrorism and then support Islamic terrorist groups.
 
I asked some questions. try to answer so that I can learn catholism.
Pardon me if I am skeptical, but why would you be interested in learning about somthing that is so contradictory to your own faith?
 
Who says the Egyptians don’t persecute the Copts? I know a missionary who is working in Egypt for years. He told me that he and his group have to be low keyed there. If there’s no persecution, everybody is happy to do whatever she or he wants to do.
 
Pardon me if I am skeptical, but why would you be interested in learning about somthing that is so contradictory to your own faith?
That is what Quran asking me to. The very first verse revealed ‘Read… Read’. I am trying read and learn.
 
That is what Quran asking me to. The very first verse revealed ‘Read… Read’. I am trying read and learn.
It is better, if you are going to chase a rabbit,to chase one at a time. Maybe it would be better to read about the Quran, so you can understand better why all us non-Muslims think the faith of Islam is bent on our destruction?
 
Hi Everyone,
I sent the answers to Khalfan about the bible and of course, he has questions in return. I got the answers from a site and its going to take me forever and a day to respond.
So if i start a new thread (of course under the right catagory for this) would you please help me out with the answers.
Ive only just really started doing my research into the catholic religion after been away from it for years.
Ive only just come home so help would be appreciated when i start posting.
Thanks
Dolphy
 
Hi Everyone,
I sent the answers to Khalfan about the bible and of course, he has questions in return. I got the answers from a site and its going to take me forever and a day to respond.
So if i start a new thread (of course under the right catagory for this) would you please help me out with the answers.
Ive only just really started doing my research into the catholic religion after been away from it for years.
Ive only just come home so help would be appreciated when i start posting.
Thanks
Dolphy
I am sure it will be a great catechetical exercise for you, dolphinlove. However, I do not think the original poster has any real interest in these things. I think ammunition is just being sought to discount Christianity. I don’t plan to participate.
 
Not if you know what the Quran teaches. What do you make of these?

faithfreedom.org/Articles/quran_teaches.htm

Vickie
Thanks for this link, BL. 🙂



I was accused earlier of making appeals of incredulity”.

Well, yes, I am making appeals…
…but they are appeals for people of goodwill, both Christian and Muslim, to see beyond the rhetoric and generalisations; to acknowledge where we have differerences, yes, but to also see where we agree and can even work together (for example, Christians and Muslims in my city are already engaging in youth-work together); I appeal so that many Muslims do not become unjustly tarred by the actions of the violent; I appeal to people to look at my city (Total population 1,000,000; Muslim population 140,000), and to know that our day-to-day lives are, thankfully, not being dictated by doom-mongering such as I have read on this thread, or those (on all sides) who feel that violence is the only course of action left - because we are far from that day.
I appeal, not just for a change of heart, but a transformation of actions and deeds which engage individuals and communities in a genuine loving dialogue - and which is happening in many places already, including Birmingham. I appeal to people not to give in to hatred or to remain in ignorance, or to respond to violence with violence (verbal or physical), but to follow the high standard of Christ and to outdo each other in acts of self-sacrifice, to the ‘Christ’ we are called to serve in the outcast, the foreigner, the sick and the prisoner. I appeal for acts of generosity that are unmerited, and that the path of right is followed because it is right and not because it gets ‘results’.
I appeal for balance and honesty, so that we do not accuse one another of anything that we might be seen to be guilty of doing or sanctioning ourselves. I appeal for a spirit of openness so that we can engage on intellectual and emotional levels. I appeal for empathy so that, as much as possible, we can learn to see what the view looks like from another’s perspective. I appeal for forgiveness, that those things which have divided us in the past will not dictate our relationships in the future - because I believe there is hope for those who choose to see it.
 
I would just appeal that muslims give up terrorism and persecution of Christians.
 
  • Why was Jesus in the tomb for only one and a half day at the most, when he said he would be there three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40)? Surely the son of God would say precisely what he means, wouldn’t he?
Here is the explanation as to how that is calculated. I’ll print just a part of it here.

newadvent.org/summa/4051.htm#4

Reply to Objection 1. Augustine says (De Consens. Evang. iii): “Some men, ignorant of Scriptural language, wished to compute as night those three hours, from the sixth to the ninth hour, during which the sun was darkened, and as day those other three hours during which it was restored to the earth, that is, from the ninth hour until its setting: for the coming night of the Sabbath follows, and if this be reckoned with its day, there will be already two nights and two days. Now after the Sabbath there follows the night of the first day of the Sabbath, that is, of the dawning Sunday, on which the Lord rose. Even so, the reckoning of the three days and three nights will not stand. It remains then to find the solution in the customary usage of speech of the Scriptures, whereby the whole is understood from the part”: so that we are able to take a day and a night as one natural day. And so the first day is computed from its ending, during which Christ died and was buried on the Friday; while the second. day is an entire day with twenty-four hours of night and day; while the night following belongs to the third day. “For as the primitive days were computed from light to night on account of man’s future fall, so these days are computed from the darkness to the daylight on account of man’s restoration” (De Trin. iv). Reply to Objection 2. As Augustine says (De Trin. iv; cf. De Consens. Evang. iii), Christ rose with the dawn, when light appears in part, and still some part of the darkness of the night remains. Hence it is said of the women that “when it was yet dark” they came “to the sepulchre” (John 20:1). Therefore, in consequence of this darkness, Gregory says (Hom. xxi) that Christ rose in the middle of the night, not that night is divided into two equal parts, but during the night itself: for the expression “early” can be taken as partly night and partly day, from its fittingness with both.

Vickie
 
The other explanation is that it was three days starting on Wednesday finishing on Saturday:thumbsup:
Wednesday in Passover is before a special Sabbath which is on Thursday
 
You won’t find a Muslim who says it’s okay to lie to unbelievers about what Islam teaches
Well that’s a lie or gross inaccuracy at the very least. In the Shi’a sect taqqiya is the permissible lie, to defend one’s faith etc.
 
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