Can we hope that nobody is in hell?

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The conclusion is very simple. Now, what I’m going to say stands purely on reasoning and logic. God is merciful. Therefore noone goes to hell. God is the ultimate justice. Ultimate justice accompanied with ultimate goodness and sympathy shows only one answer. Ultimate forgiveness. And there is no sin so great that God cannot forgive. If there is any possibility that there are people who end up in hell, I assure you, they end up there because they want to end up there. Same reasoning goes for people who end up in purgatory. I’m very sure people who suffer in purgatory decide’s how long will they remain in purgatory. Not God. I believe what God does is open their eyes a little bigger to observe their sins and purpose of sinning. The guilt and conscience starts taking place, and regret and the feeling of unworthiness starts building up. That is where you will honestly decide how long you will deserve to suffer in purgatory before you go to heaven. Same reasoning goes for people who go to hell. The reasoning goes that they feel that they don’t deserve heaven. Which only leaves one more choice. Hell.

If let’s say the logic applies that noone goes to hell.
Why have hell then?
Some people try not to sin, due to religious or personal convictions.
Some try not to sin because they feel it offends God.
Some try not to sin due to fear of eternal damnation.
Therefore, hell is neccesary in order for order and to prevent chaos.

Why would God lie assuming that there really is no hell?
I do not know.
I can never understand how God thinks or why does God do certain things that he does.
All I know is that the bible is the word of God.
Your mind, your logic, your reasoning skills are all the work and gifts from God.
And I personally and strongly believe, the bible is a book which contains everything that God thinks we ought and need to know.
However there are many other things which God would not want us to know. Why? I do not know.

And I’m sure, what God does’nt want us to know, it’s better to not know. However, if you are a person that is always searching for the truth, then search.
However, remember. You are searching for something that’s not for you to know. So beware.

Case close.
 
edwinchan88 said:
Now, what I’m going to say stands purely on reasoning and logic.
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This is your reasoning, not that of the magisterium of the Church.
God is merciful. Therefore noone goes to hell. God is the ultimate justice. Ultimate justice accompanied with ultimate goodness and sympathy shows only one answer. Ultimate forgiveness. And there is no sin so great that God cannot forgive.
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Yet the Bible that you say you believe says that this forgiveness is conditional on some things like repentance and asking for forgiveness. Those who die without doing this (when mortal sin is involved) go to hell.
If there is any possibility that there are people who end up in hell, I assure you, they end up there because they want to end up there.
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Well, that is Catholic teaching. 🙂 Those in mortal sin can freely choose to not repent and therefore choose to go to hell.
Why would God lie assuming that there really is no hell?
I do not know.
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So God (and the Bible you say you believe) may be lieing about hell? :rolleyes:
And I personally and strongly believe, the bible is a book which contains everything that God thinks we ought and need to know.
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Yet the Bible warns that people do go to hell…
 
I agree. That was a silly thing to say. We cannot hope that no one will go to hell, since God did say that some people will go to Hell. However, we don’t know who exactly will be in Hell, so we can hope that a particular person might not be in Hell, and we should not say that such and such a person is in Hell, since we don’t know. The only people we can say with any assurance as to their eternal state are the saints. Other than them, we are neither to despair, nor to presume, but pray for them.
 
I believe in the bible… but I doubt the about the bible in alot of things. I might be considered a heretic. Whether God may be lying… Probably, I do not know. I would prefer to say no. But then again I can’t stop the doubting.
I’m just questioning certain issues.
Especially on the literal terms such as forgiveness is conditional on some things like repentance and asking for forgiveness. Those who die without doing this (when mortal sin is involved) go to hell.

I seriously doubt that. Which clearly leaves 2 options. Its the truth or it’s a lie. The bible says it, but I doubt it. I do believe in the bible, but I doubt and question many things about it.
I hope its not wrong to do that. I only want logical answers. Something other then the word faith.
Because by logical reasoning, if there ever was a place called hell, noone goes there.
Of course the word faith solves everything.
The bible says so. The bible is the word of god.
God does not lie. Therefore it must be the truth.
Have faith and believe.

It would be nice to get some logical answers =)
Something other then the word faith.
 
Dee_Dee_King said:
i watched msgr. swetland on EWTN last night say to college students at the university of illionis on the topic of salvation that since we don’t know who, if anyone, is in hell and that by the measure we judge we’ll be judged, we can hope that no one is in hell. he seemed to imply that universal salvation is a possibility.

i find this idea repugnant and contradictory to the scriptures, as well as to traditional catholicism. i think protestant converts at times over emphasize the commonalities between catholics and protestants and gloss over the differences. this may be because they have to reconcile the fact that many of their loved ones are not catholic yet and may be in a grave state.

he quoted hans balthasar and treated his writings as if they were doctrine. to me, his whole presentation on salvation was very relativistic and made it sound that it didn’t make much difference if you’re catholic or not, as long as you are a good person.

i think EWTN is taking a turn for the worse since Mother Angelica is on the side lines. i think it is silly to have hope that nobody is in hell. clearly, some people must be there. otherwise, why be catholic in the first place? it isn’t an easy road.
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.as a parent I also feel ,in some ways…eternal punishment is kinda harsh…but then again…if all are saved…a gnostic-new age concept…that means all churchs are a waste of time…the very word justice is absurd and meaningless…then we should just buy and live each day to the fullest ,trying to not get caught in anything remotely bad…but so what…no real punishment…so the beasts who murdered some 6 million innocent Jewish men,women and children are in the same place as the victims…cant buy that…
 
There is a reason for everything. Believe me on that. There is a reason for hell to exist if it exist. There is also a reason for the bible to say it exist even if it does’nt exist. Like I said, we need a hell. If there really was no hell, there will hardly be any order in this already pathetic world. Like I said, if god says there is a hell, then there is a hell. If God was lying, I would understand perfectly well why would he be lying. Believe in the bible, for it is the word of God. If you choose to question the bible, then you are questioning God. When you do that, beware. You might find out certain things which is’nt meant for you to know. And the beast that you were referring too. I assume he’s in purgatory along with the rest of the innocent victims. Same place, probably different version, and definitely a more intense suffering and a longer period of time. Assuming there is such a thing as time in this place called Purgatory. And that’s also assuming he does’nt condemn himself to hell. Assuming that there is truly a hell and again, assuming that people are send there.
 
what about non christians? do they go to hell? or will God spare them a place in heaven with Him.

and, do ALL christians/catholics go to heaven?
 
I’m sure they won’t go to hell just because they are’nt christians.
It depends on their earthly conduct.
But I do know of many protestant teachings that teaches if you`re not a christian you’ll go to hell quoting from the bible where Jesus was saying he is the only way to the Father and no other way but only him.
Here we have to understand what he actually meant when he said he was the only way. Could the only way have several ways? Or even possibly many ways? Just as there is only one God but in three different forms?

But one thing that’s definitely true. If you reason out base on logic, it is illogical for people to go to hell just because they are of another belief.
 
edwinchan88 said:
I believe in the bible… but I doubt the about the bible in alot of things. I might be considered a heretic. Whether God may be lying… Probably, I do not know. I would prefer to say no. But then again I can’t stop the doubting.
I’m just questioning certain issues.
Especially on the literal terms such as forgiveness is conditional on some things like repentance and asking for forgiveness. Those who die without doing this (when mortal sin is involved) go to hell.

I seriously doubt that. Which clearly leaves 2 options. Its the truth or it’s a lie. The bible says it, but I doubt it. I do believe in the bible, but I doubt and question many things about it.
I hope its not wrong to do that. I only want logical answers. Something other then the word faith.
Because by logical reasoning, if there ever was a place called hell, noone goes there.
Of course the word faith solves everything.
The bible says so. The bible is the word of god.
God does not lie. Therefore it must be the truth.
Have faith and believe.

It would be nice to get some logical answers =)
Something other then the word faith.
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I admire your search for truth. Obviously you’ve done a lot of thinking. I do think there is a flaw in how you’re going about trying to find truth, though. From what you’ve written, you seem to be one of those people who thinks that the truth must make logical sense and it must seem so to you. In other words, you are the final arbiter of whether something is true or not based on whether it makes sense to you or not.

There are a couple of approaches to finding what is true. Here are 2 of the more common:
  1. Each individual person can decide on what is true based on what makes sense to them – this approach leads to many conflicting claims to what truth is and therefore can’t be the valid way to find truth because truth is truth. There is no separate truth for me and another for someone else.
  2. There is a Church founded by Christ to teach His truth and He guarantees this Church will teach what is true — the scriptures and the witness of the earliest christians show that this is the method for finding what is really true.
I recommend to you method #2. If you continue to employ method #1 you will likely not find peace and certainly will be frustrated by Catholicism.

My 2 cents.
 
I was brought up in a Catholic faith. However I would consider myself to be 55% Catholic and 45% agnostic. I would say that the only reason why I’m still a Catholic would be that everytime when science, reasoning or logic reaches a dead end like for example when it comes to the old debate regarding the Origins of the Universe where there is simply no answer. Religion provides the most logical answer.

I constantly have discussions and debates with Atheist in a very prominent Atheist website. www.richarddawkins.net
Its pretty hard talking with atheist`s who only takes logic and reasoning as the only answer to everything. And when reasoning and logic reaches a dead end, they always use the same old argument which says that the time will come when science will be able to answer those dead end question. Its just a matter of time.

And of course, the 2nd approach would be the easy way out.
I prefer using the 1st approach…and when the 1st approach does’nt work, thats where the 2nd approach comes to use.

Anyways, thank you very much. I really appreciate your 2cents.
 
Dee_Dee_King said:
i watched msgr. swetland on EWTN last night say to college students at the university of illionis on the topic of salvation that since we don’t know who, if anyone, is in hell and that by the measure we judge we’ll be judged, we can hope that no one is in hell. he seemed to imply that universal salvation is a possibility.

i find this idea repugnant and contradictory to the scriptures, as well as to traditional catholicism. i think protestant converts at times over emphasize the commonalities between catholics and protestants and gloss over the differences. this may be because they have to reconcile the fact that many of their loved ones are not catholic yet and may be in a grave state.

he quoted hans balthasar and treated his writings as if they were doctrine. to me, his whole presentation on salvation was very relativistic and made it sound that it didn’t make much difference if you’re catholic or not, as long as you are a good person.

i think EWTN is taking a turn for the worse since Mother Angelica is on the side lines. i think it is silly to have hope that nobody is in hell. clearly, some people must be there. otherwise, why be catholic in the first place? it isn’t an easy road.
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How very pessimistic. But if you think anyone deserves to be tortured ETERNALLY, then you are sick.
 
Also, we must remember that while the Bible was inspired by God, it was written by man. We will never have his true words, only bits and pieces. Keeping this in mind, some of the things we are supposed to believe in the Bible seem silly to me(example: hell):eek:
 
edwinchan88 said:
I totally agree with you.
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And that is what hell is supposed to be. But God is supposed to be loving. I know that God is the ultimate love, that love never fades, and he loves everyone equally. Therefore, I know there isn’t a hell, excluding the one where Satan is and the ones we create for ourselves.
 
First we must acknowledge that God is indeed omnipotent and omniscient. And when we know that for a sure certainty, free will becomes a big issue.

I would be right if I would say that God knows me much better then I know myself.

I would then be right by concluding that God would know my every action before I even do anything, or even have the thoughts or intentions to do anything.

I would also be right in saying that if both earlier statements were right the issue of free will is at serious doubt then, since the justification of our doings and our doings as well, regardless of whether its right or wrong is known to God.

The logic of hell is unacceptable that the reason for every wrong doing is perfectly known to God.

Free will is already in grave doubt. What more about hell? If there was’nt a thing as free will, there is valid need for a hell anymore.

Even if free will is still accepted, the very notion of the understanding of every wrong doing by an omnipotent and omniscient God leaves the logic of hell unacceptable any more.

Logically speaking that is… not faithfully speaking or religiously speaking.
 
Well, we do have free will because although God may know what we will do, he can’t stop us from doing what we want, unless he wants to interfere, which is hardly ever. Not to say that he isn’t present in our lives, just saying that he won’t interfere with our free will.
 
This is where I stand on my belief that to God…everything is destined. And to men, destiny is in your own hands.

The logic of hell is totally unacceptable, as He would know whether you would go to hell already.

But the question of free will still stands at doubt for me.
If I were to know every single of your actions before you do it, know every reasons to why you are doing the things you do, and even though I do not interfere or tell you anything at all, which I know will cause an influence, I wont constitute that as free will any longer for you.

However, to you, its still considered as free will. Why?
Because you do not know.
But what If you knew?
What if you knew that I know what you’re going to do even before you even have any thought of it?
Would you still say that you still have free will in that sense?
Well, you still get to make ur own decisions, thats for sure.
If thats your definition of free will. Then free will still stays.
Food for thought.
 
blacktiger057 said:
How very pessimistic. But if you think anyone deserves to be tortured ETERNALLY, then you are sick.
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What about Hitler, what about Stalin? How about Charles Manson? And how about all the other evil and cruel men throughout history? Think they will someday realize the beatific vision?

You’ve been in the novus ordo too long. Get yourself the traditional catechism of the Catholic Church and brush up on the Doctrines.

Some may not like the idea of hell, but it exists and many will go there.
 
It’s not a matter of like my friend. I do know what these people have commited and their very acts of atrocity. If you have clearly read what I have been writing earlier you would have known why I concluded certain derivations and you would it has nothing to do with liking or disliking.

However it does not justify eternal damnations, and again I already stated why very much earlier. And yes, my friend, I have got myself the traditional catechism of the Catholic Church and brush up on the Doctrines. However, like I said earlier, I wish there was something other then faith that could answer this very issue. However if there is no other answer other then faith, then I must say I am disappointed. But I shall be satisfy with this answer. At least for now. =)
 
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