Can we hope that nobody is in hell?

[edwinchan88]

It’s not a matter of like my friend. I do know what these people have commited and their very acts of atrocity. If you have clearly read what I have been writing earlier you would have known why I concluded certain derivations and you would know it has nothing to do with liking or disliking.

However it does not justify eternal damnations, and again I already stated why very much earlier. And yes, my friend, I have got myself the traditional catechism of the Catholic Church and brush up on the Doctrines. However, like I said earlier, I wish there was something other then faith that could answer this very issue. However if there is no other answer other then faith, then I must say I am disappointed. But I shall be satisfy with this answer. At least for now. =)

 

[Aslieas]

Maybe I am not catching the context correctly (I am very tired right now:yawn: ) but I don’t see exactly how one can be offended by another person claiming to “hope no one is in/going to hell.”
I think that it is a show of compassion to not wish others to be subject to divine wrath/punishment or hell. Is it not well to pray for the souls of others, that God may have mercy on them? I mean, it’s always up to God where each soul should go, and we shouldn’t forget that. But God is merciful and compassionate, and he hears us out even if he doesn’t want to do what we are asking for.
I don’t know who was on TV or what they said, but my response to the title of this thread is: yes, of course we can. It’s just not very realistic. We do better to pray for others to not end up there.

 

[Aslieas]

a continuation of my last post, in regard to praying for others:
yes, even stalin, hitler, manson, etc. They deserve a chance for mercy, just like the rest of us.

 

[rayne89]

What about Hitler, what about Stalin? How about Charles Manson? And how about all the other evil and cruel men throughout history? Think they will someday realize the beatific vision?

You’ve been in the novus ordo too long. Get yourself the traditional catechism of the Catholic Church and brush up on the Doctrines.

Some may not like the idea of hell, but it exists and many will go there.

Blacktiger is “Christian, Buddhist, Wiccan” according to his/her profile. His opinions have nothing to do with the current accepted rite of the Mass.

 

[trentonzero]

I don’t know. based on the quote from John Paull II in post #4 it sounds like there will definitely be people in hell. I don’t know if it is clear that there are people there right now, but it seems that someday there will definitely be people there. what do you think about this quote?

I think its very wise.

I think there will be a Hell.
I think many people will be in it.

But, I hope for an empty Hell.

I’ll put it another way: I’m a teacher.

I want and hope all my students will get A+ at the end of the class. For me to desire otherwise would be a serious flaw in me as a teacher. But, make no mistake, students in my classes get proper grades.

“I want all my students to learn the material” does not turn into “Let’s just pretend all my students learned the material.” A student who doesn’t know the material gets an F. That both saddens and angers me (some students I am more angry…some students I am more sad). But they get the F.

Sometimes I may be justified in raising a grade (if I think this was really the best the student could do…or if I have reason to think the students do not understand because I failed to explain properly)…But I would be a horrible, terrible teacher if I ever, for a moment, desired for one of my students to fail.

When I say I believe its good to hope that Judas, Adolf Hitler, and others are in Heaven…I mean it in the exact same way I mean: “Boy, I sure hope that boy who hasn’t been paying attention all semester came to his senses and studied before taking this test.” not in the “I don’t care if he does think that eight is spelled ‘ieht’…I’ll give him a 100 anyways.” (I teach English to Chinese children).

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Much of this conversation in the last few pages belongs in the Apologetics forum not the Traditional Catholicism forum.

If you have questions/comments about the existence of hell please take those sort of questions/comments there.

Please return to the original topic of this thread, everyone. Thank you.

 

[OLRansom]

This is not an argument from theology, but Our Lady of Fatima (who would know such things) said that many souls go to hell because no one prays for them (i.e., their conversion), as well as that many/most souls go to hell for sins of the flesh. Neither of these ideas has been presented verbatim, of course, but I have supplied the gist.

Also, according to St. Leonard of Port Maurice, who cites numerous saints and fathers of Holy Church to support his argument, most adult Catholics go to hell.

God speed.

 

[labernadette]

Blacktiger is “Christian, Buddhist, Wiccan” according to his/her profile. His opinions have nothing to do with the current accepted rite of the Mass.

I am trying to understand why you have posted this information.

 

[labernadette]

From “My Catholic Faith” A Cathechism in Pictures. All material from A Catechism of Christian Doctrine, No. 3 Revised Edition of the Baltimore Catechism, and from the 1941 translation of the New Testament is reproduced in this book.

1. Christ Himself, in fifteen places in Holy Scripture, refers to the punishment of hell, the horrible abode of the wicked.
2. All who die in mortal sin, even with only a single unrepented and unforgiven mortal sin, are sent to hell.
3. God does not wish to send anyone to hell. His only desire would be to have all His children with Him in the bliss of heaven. The sinner forces God to punish him in hell, by defying Him and refusing to recognize His authority. When a vile creature defies his infinite Creator, no punishment is too great.

God is continually calling sinners to repentance by numberless graces. He instituted a Church to teach them the way to heaven, to show them what to avoid. He instituted the sacrament of penance to cleanse from all sin, to assure the sinner that without any doubt God forgives him. He stands as the loving Father, awaiting with anxiety the return of the prodigal. If after all these graces the sinner persists in sin, he has only himself to blame when he is sent to hell.

 

[rayne89]

I am trying to understand why you have posted this information.

Because you told black tiger “You’ve been in the novus ordo too long.” If black tiger is “Christian, Buddhist, Wiccan” according to his profile he hasn’t been in the novus ordo at all. Unless “Christian, Buddhist, Wiccans” regularly attend Catholic Masses.

 

[Nick]

I am not going to be participating in the forums here for awhile.

 

[jesrina]

But I do know of many protestant teachings that teaches if you`re not a christian you’ll go to hell quoting from the bible where Jesus was saying he is the only way to the Father and no other way but only him.

could this be because they ( the protestants ) want to convert non christians to believe in Christ?

 

[Potato1]

edwinchan88;2371449:

But I do know of many protestant teachings that teaches if you`re not a christian you’ll go to hell quoting from the bible where Jesus was saying he is the only way to the Father and no other way but only him.
QUOTE]

could this be because they ( the protestants ) want to convert non christians to believe in Christ?

All Christians should want to convert people to Christ. Especially Catholics, however some people differ about how to do that. Fear is a great motivator but a poor educator. Nevertheless, Hell is real. I often tell non Christians when they ask me if I think they are going to hell… "Thank goodness I do not make those decisions. I do not know who will go to hell. BUT I can tell you how to get to heaven.

 

[rlg94086]

All Christians should want to convert people to Christ. Especially Catholics, however some people differ about how to do that. Fear is a great motivator but a poor educator. Nevertheless, Hell is real. I often tell non Christians when they ask me if I think they are going to hell… "Thank goodness I do not make those decisions. I do not know who will go to hell. BUT I can tell you how to get to heaven.

Great response.

This is one of the major differences that attracted me to the Catholic Church. I don’t think it is reasonable to believe there is nobody in hell, but I don’t think we should be telling people their fate…it is up to God. However, we can certainly tell them what the Church teaches about faith, actions and final judgment.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

It all comes down to CHOICE.

Heaven IS a choice

Hell is also a choice

 

[prv]

i watched msgr. swetland on EWTN last night say to college students at the university of illionis on the topic of salvation that since we don’t know who, if anyone, is in hell and that by the measure we judge we’ll be judged, we can hope that no one is in hell. he seemed to imply that universal salvation is a possibility.

i find this idea repugnant and contradictory to the scriptures, as well as to traditional catholicism. i think protestant converts at times over emphasize the commonalities between catholics and protestants and gloss over the differences. this may be because they have to reconcile the fact that many of their loved ones are not catholic yet and may be in a grave state.

he quoted hans balthasar and treated his writings as if they were doctrine. to me, his whole presentation on salvation was very relativistic and made it sound that it didn’t make much difference if you’re catholic or not, as long as you are a good person.

i think EWTN is taking a turn for the worse since Mother Angelica is on the side lines. i think it is silly to have hope that nobody is in hell. clearly, some people must be there. otherwise, why be catholic in the first place? it isn’t an easy road.

I think Catholics from birth often look too much at the similarities between Protestants and us and gloss over the difference. That being, in response to the question as titled, isn’t it Christ’s will that nobody enter perdition? Should we not pray, and consequently hope, that nobody becomes condemned?

That being said, the priest is correct: there is no way we can judge before death who is damned. That is not our job. We as Catholics should be humble enough to know that Christ is able to apply the fruits of redemption to whoever he chooses, no matter how good or evil one was during this life and even if they may not belong fully to the Church he established.

We ask for mercy on us and on others. We do not assume it will come to us simply because we belong in body, but not necessarily in spirit, to the Church he made.

We humbly ask for his mercy, not prouncing around proudly that we are redeemed.

 

[labernadette]

i think EWTN is taking a turn for the worse since Mother Angelica is on the side lines. i think it is silly to have hope that nobody is in hell. clearly, some people must be there. otherwise, why be catholic in the first place? it isn’t an easy road.

Read “EWTN, A Network Gone Wrong” by Christopher Ferrara. It is a real eye opener, and will confirm to you that EWTN not only took a turn for the worse, it catapulted itself into Protestantism. Very interesting is the power squeeze they pulled on Mother Angelica.

 

[eric3141]

How very pessimistic. But if you think anyone deserves to be tortured ETERNALLY, then you are sick.

I disagree. I think that since the Church has always taught that going to hell is a very real possibility and since the majority of saints who have taught on the issue actually say that most Catholics (note I didn’t say “good” Catholics but Catholics as a whole) do go to hell then his the poster’s comments were in line with Church tradition. All he did was say that for someone to seriously say that nobody is in hell is a problem - and St. Augustine, St. Anselm, St. Thomas Aquinas, and St. John Chrysostom (who all taught that most Catholics go to hell) would agree.

 

[eric3141]

Also, we must remember that while the Bible was inspired by God, it was written by man. We will never have his true words, only bits and pieces. Keeping this in mind, some of the things we are supposed to believe in the Bible seem silly to me(example: hell)

Actually, it’s doctrine of the Church that the Bible are His words even though written by human hands. But you probably disagree with this.

 

[truthnlight]

i think EWTN is taking a turn for the worse since Mother Angelica is on the side lines. i think it is silly to have hope that nobody is in hell. clearly, some people must be there. otherwise, why be catholic in the first place? it isn’t an easy road.

Mat.11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The only road I know…The Roman Road

Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”
Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”

Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved”For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (Romans 10:9).