Can We Put this Myth to Rest: EF vs EMHC?

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NewEnglandPries said:
Really? A great bulk of people? And how do you know the state of the souls of a great bulk of people?
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Fr, are you saying we shouldn’t trust those polls which show the high percentage of Catholics who attend Mass (and we see virtually everyone receiving in English Masses) practice ABC and/or believe in pro-choice?

That said, I am in agreement that one cannot judge an individual’s state but simple math says that there should be a substantial few who shouldn’t be receiving, given the poll on just those sins. Just saying, not judging.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
Really? A great bulk of people? And how do you know the state of the souls of a great bulk of people?

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
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Wild guess. Do you think I am wrong do you? I think you are just being contrary.

Even if we are not in a state of mortal sin we still need to go to confession once a year to confess venial sins. To not go to confession once a year is itself a mortal sin.
From the Baltimore Confession
Q. 1349. What is meant by the command of confessing at least once a year?
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A. By the command of confessing at least once a year is meant that we are obliged, under pain of mortal sin, to go to confession within the year.
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In a parish of 18000 people and assuming that they go to mass at least once in the year then that should mean that there are 346 confessions being heard every week. By rights we should be clamouring for EMSP’s Extraordinary Minister of the Sacrament of Penance.

Now these would not actually pronounce the words of absolution. They would hear the confession and then pass the person onto the priest to say the words of absolution. Of course I am being ridiculous to make a point. That is that in previous generations it would have been outrageous and ridiculous to suggest that there could be EMHC’s.

The fact that we don’t have 3 confessions per week when we should be having 346 is clear evidence that a great bulk of people in my parish are in a state or mortal sin. And I have little doubt that my parish is a typical parish that you would find in most parts of the developed world.
 
petrel said:
No I did not suggest that. What I do suggest is that we have no EMHC’s and a very, very long queue. It will not take long before those who are not serious about receiving the most Holy Eucharist decide to not join the queue in order to not delay the mass so that they can get out from mass all the quicker.

Better yet, why not require people to receive on the tongue, kneeling. That will further shorten the queue.
Now here is a shocking notion. How about a sermon about the necessity of contrition and confession for forgiveness of mortal sins before receiving? A sermon which warns of the horrors of sacriledge and punishment of hell for those who defile the Holy Eucharist. When did we last hear a sermon like that if ever?

Maybe if people thought twice about the seriousness of what they were doing they would think twice before filing up to receive as if they were lining up to get a bowl of soup
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Wow…that is unkind and uncharitable to say the least.

Of course so is assuming that people are in a state of mortal sin…you can’t say that…even a priest can’t say if someone is in a state of mortal sin.
 
petrel said:
In a parish of 18000 people and assuming that they go to mass at least once in the year then that should mean that there are 346 confessions being heard every week.

The fact that we don’t have 3 confessions per week when we should be having 346 is clear evidence that a great bulk of people in my parish are in a state or mortal sin. And I have little doubt that my parish is a typical parish that you would find in most parts of the developed world.
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Interesting thought. I hadn’t done the math before this. However, some portion of this number are children under the age of reason, and those who do not have serious sins to confess.
457 According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess **serious **sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58
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1458 Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church.59 Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps us form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father’s mercy, we are spurred to be merciful as he is merciful:60
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NewEnglandPries said:
Not really: Can. 989 After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is obliged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year.
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Father, are you saying that even if someone has mortal sins, they are not required to go to confession more than once a year?
 
TrueLight said:
Father, are you saying that even if someone has mortal sins, they are not required to go to confession more than once a year?
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From the catechism:
1457 According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58
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1458 Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church.59 Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps us form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father’s mercy, we are spurred to be merciful as he is merciful:60
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ProVobis said:
I don’t understand this. If we commit mortal sin, we were instructed to say a perfect act of contrition with a firm intent to seek confession as soon as possible.
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There’s what’s recommended and there’s what’s required. Its required to confess grave sins once per year. However, it’s recommended to go as soon reasonably possible after a grave sin.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
There’s what’s recommended and there’s what’s required. Its required to confess grave sins once per year. However, it’s recommended to go as soon reasonably possible after a grave sin.
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This is mind-blowing to me. I see what you posted, but it has never been explained to me that way.

If you commit a grave sin but don’t confess it and you die in that state, you’re in big trouble.
 
ProVobis said:
Fr, are you saying we shouldn’t trust those polls which show the high percentage of Catholics who attend Mass (and we see virtually everyone receiving in English Masses) practice ABC and/or believe in pro-choice?
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You have no idea who is who in any given setting. And, also, there’s a difference between committing grave matter and being gravely culpable.
 
petrel said:
Wild guess. Do you think I am wrong do you? I think you are just being contrary.
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I have no idea that state of the souls of the people who come up to communion.
Even if we are not in a state of mortal sin we still need to go to confession once a year to confess venial sins. To not go to confession once a year is itself a mortal sin.
From the Baltimore Confession
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The 1983 Code of Canon Law is now the law of the land. The 1983 Code only requires once a year confession of grave sins. Venial sins are no longer required to be confessed once a year. Its certainly highly recommended, but not required.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
You have no idea who is who in any given setting. And, also, there’s a difference between committing grave matter and being gravely culpable.
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But still, the point stands. A great number of catholics are committing grave sin, possibly mortal sin. You just can’t argue with the numbers, especially when at most of parishes, nearly the whole congregation goes to communion
 
TheMc said:
But still, the point stands. A great number of catholics are committing grave sin, possibly mortal sin. You just can’t argue with the numbers, especially when at most of parishes, nearly the whole congregation goes to communion
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And if you don’t go, some may give you dirty looks, if not make assumptions about you. That’s not right, either.
 
TheMc said:
But still, the point stands. A great number of catholics are committing grave sin, possibly mortal sin. You just can’t argue with the numbers, especially when at most of parishes, nearly the whole congregation goes to communion
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Really? You know that there are a great number of Catholics committing mortal sin every week without going to confession?
 
TheMc said:
But still, the point stands. A great number of catholics are committing grave sin, possibly mortal sin. You just can’t argue with the numbers, especially when at most of parishes, nearly the whole congregation goes to communion
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You can’t argue with what numbers?

How do you know that “a great number” of Catholics are committing grave sins? Granted, they may well be. But how do you know that well enough to accuse them? And you are also directly accusing them of greater sin, profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord. Serious accusations…where are your facts? Or are they guesses?

What grave sins? If you know they are committing grave sins, you must know what specific sins. Who, how many? Be precise.
 
GwenL said:
You can’t argue with what numbers?

How do you know that “a great number” of Catholics are committing grave sins? Granted, they may well be. But how do you know that well enough to accuse them? And you are also directly accusing them of greater sin, profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord. Serious accusations…where are your facts? Or are they guesses?

What grave sins? If you know they are committing grave sins, you must know what specific sins. Who, how many? Be precise.
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Study after study and survey after survey shows a great percentage of Catholics are a-ok with ABC. Surely you know what I’m talking about.
 
So maybe don’t allow families with less than three kids up to the altar?:confused:
 
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