Can we reconcile God's love with hell?

[HelenRose]

I need a verbal calling, something specific and tangible.

I am trying to think of an answer. One time, 35 or so years ago I was driving in a sad part of Los Angeles on a particularly smoggy day. I called out to G,od. “Be. Just be. That is all I ask. Just be.”

I have always carried with me the peace that came over me in answer to that plea. I don’t have a tangible answer. I can only say that in all the blind allies that I have wandered into, I have been able to find a way out. All your questions can not be answered by another person. Because your search is between you and God. Even the simple act of saying, " I have hope in the Goodness of God." Can help you find some peace in a very lonely world.

 

[simonmic]

I have always carried with me the peace that came over me in answer to that plea.

I wish i could have that, but with my past, these terrible thoughts that reside, which are to me, me, just me and not any demons or devil, it is far, far from being that that you found

 

[HelenRose]

I wonder how God dealt with ancient civilizations concerning matters such as this.

I think that the choice for the good or for evil has always been written on the hearts of each human being. A person in ancient times would know the evil of deliberately kicking another person for pleasure. Honor, kindness, honesty are not new concepts.

 

[HelenRose]

I wish i could have that, but with my past, these terrible thoughts that reside, which are to me, me, just me and not any demons or devil, it is far, far from being that that you found

I know that my words seem simplistic. But in many ways it is the simple words that can bring about hope. Hope is such a simple word. It does not require belief. It does not require arguments. It only requires a glimmer of light in a dark world. It will be my pray for you. Just a tiny tiny spark of hope.

 

[simonmic]

I know that my words seem simplistic. But in many ways it is the simple words that can bring about hope. Hope is such a simple word. It does not require belief. It does not require arguments. It only requires a glimmer of light in a dark world. It will be my pray for you. Just a tiny tiny spark of hope.

Thanks.

 

[JRKH]

I need a verbal calling, something specific and tangible.

Why do you require something verbal, specific and tangible?

If He really did that and asked, i could really say sorry then for all my terrible sins, which i have not confessed to a priest.

If the question does not come in the way you require, does that mean you are any less sorry for your terrible sins?

Peace
James

 

[simonmic]

Why do you require something verbal, specific and tangible?

If the question does not come in the way you require, does that mean you are any less sorry for your terrible sins?

Peace
James

To the first question. It is simply because i find it hard to believe.

To the second. Yes, i am sorry right now… I replied to it that way due to my doubts,sorry…i didn’t mean to write it as though i wasn’t. I will always be sorry, whether i truly believe or not.

 

[pensmama87]

Why do you require something verbal, specific and tangible?

If the question does not come in the way you require, does that mean you are any less sorry for your terrible sins?

Peace
James

I have often thought that this is why God gives us the Sacraments. Naming one’s sins and hearing the words of absolution is pretty verbal, specific, and tangible.

 

[JRKH]

To the first question. It is simply because i find it hard to believe.

That God exists or that he will forgive you?

To the second. Yes, i am sorry right now… I replied to it that way due to my doubts,sorry…i didn’t mean to write it as though i wasn’t. I will always be sorry, whether i truly believe or not.

Then you are already well on your way.

I have often thought that this is why God gives us the Sacraments. Naming one’s sins and hearing the words of absolution is pretty verbal, specific, and tangible.

This is an excellent point.

Peace
James

 

[simonmic]

That God exists or that he will forgive you?

Peace
James

Both i think.

I tried praying and i tried doing it for the first time, on and off, about a year ago maybe. I had never really prayed before.

When i tried praying, i tried the Rosary too. That was the worst. Not because i did not like it, but because my horrible thoughts returned and i had to keep saying sorry in between each Hail Mary at times.It was terrible. Thoughts about all kinds of things and ones against Our Lady too.

I followed the Rosary online, on a site with a couple of people speaking it in audio on MP3. I tried mimicking their words whilst holding the Rosary, following the beads and Reading it too in text.

Never knew the Apostles Creed, Hail Holy Queen at all really … . Anyway, it was start stop,start stop…

My last attempt at praying was last week or so. and i had been doing it for the about a month or so, but this time trying the Divine Mercy prayers, after a long period before that, doing nothing at all… I was doing fairly well with the Divine Mercy prayers. It was quicker to get through and i was able to block them out more times than when praying the Rosary.

Praying for others too, seperately, before the Divine Mercy…Sometimes rushing so that they did not get to me and allow myself to become despondant…Sometimes admittedly, being lazy and telling myself i could be doing something better, that nothing will come of it.

I did achieve one thing from my attempts at praying the Rosary. I finally learnt the Hail Holy Queen off by heart and kept remembering it too. I could not learn the Apostles Creed that well, but might having been getting there when i was praying the Divine Mercy.

Anyway, it is again on stop right now

Simon

 

[JRKH]

Both i think.

I tried praying and i tried doing it for the first time, on and off, about a year ago maybe. I had never really prayed before.

When i tried praying, i tried the Rosary too. That was the worst. Not because i did not like it, but because my horrible thoughts returned and i had to keep saying sorry in between each Hail Mary at times.It was terrible. Thoughts about all kinds of things and ones against Our Lady too.

I followed the Rosary online, on a site with a couple of people speaking it in audio on MP3. I tried mimicking their words whilst holding the Rosary, following the beads and Reading it too in text.

Never knew the Apostles Creed, Hail Holy Queen at all really … . Anyway, it was start stop,start stop…

My last attempt at praying was last week or so. and i had been doing it for the about a month or so, but this time trying the Divine Mercy prayers, after a long period before that, doing nothing at all… I was doing fairly well with the Divine Mercy prayers. It was quicker to get through and i was able to block them out more times than when praying the Rosary.

Praying for others too, seperately, before the Divine Mercy…Sometimes rushing so that they did not get to me and allow myself to become despondant…Sometimes admittedly, being lazy and telling myself i could be doing something better, that nothing will come of it.

I did achieve one thing from my attempts at praying the Rosary. I finally learnt the Hail Holy Queen off by heart and kept remembering it too. I could not learn the Apostles Creed that well, but might having been getting there when i was praying the Divine Mercy.

Anyway, it is again on stop right now

Simon

Simon,
I am sorry for your struggles. I do know how upsetting and distracting such intrusive thoughts can be. The worse the sins are, the more upsetting it can be. Been there (and sometimes still am). The evil one loves to try to throw these things up to us to try to get just the reaction you describe…To stop us from praying and to promote a feeling of despondency.
But -
If we recognize these things are happening, then we can take steps to counter them.

Allow me to offer two things that might help.
First…
We can never get rid of our memories. We made them and now we are stuck with them - good ones and bad ones. However, there is a benefit to such memories (as painful as some are). The benefit is the sorrow that we feel anew when we remember.
Such things reminds us of where we use to be but are not now - and more importantly why we never want to go back there ever again.
So instead of getting despondent over the memories, thank God for reminding you. Thank Him anew for forgiving you. Renew your commitment to Love.
This will have the effect of gradually dimming the memories and also helping you develop a prayer life built around hope and thanksgiving.

Second…
As regards your prayer life. It is good that you are learning the divine mercy and the rosary. They are both excellent prayers. But do not fear to “change it up” now and again. I say this because we can at times fall into a rut in our prayers and we need to keep things fresh.
Also, try to develop and use short ejaculatory prayers such as the one in my signature. They are a wonderful way to interject prayer throughout your day.

Hope this helps you some.

Peace
James

 

[HelenRose]

Both i think.

I tried praying and i tried doing it for the first time, on and off, about a year ago maybe. I had never really prayed before.

When i tried praying, i tried the Rosary too. That was the worst. Not because i did not like it, but because my horrible thoughts returned and i had to keep saying sorry in between each Hail Mary at times.It was terrible. Thoughts about all kinds of things and ones against Our Lady too.

I followed the Rosary online, on a site with a couple of people speaking it in audio on MP3. I tried mimicking their words whilst holding the Rosary, following the beads and Reading it too in text.

Never knew the Apostles Creed, Hail Holy Queen at all really … . Anyway, it was start stop,start stop…

My last attempt at praying was last week or so. and i had been doing it for the about a month or so, but this time trying the Divine Mercy prayers, after a long period before that, doing nothing at all… I was doing fairly well with the Divine Mercy prayers. It was quicker to get through and i was able to block them out more times than when praying the Rosary.

Praying for others too, seperately, before the Divine Mercy…Sometimes rushing so that they did not get to me and allow myself to become despondant…Sometimes admittedly, being lazy and telling myself i could be doing something better, that nothing will come of it.

I did achieve one thing from my attempts at praying the Rosary. I finally learnt the Hail Holy Queen off by heart and kept remembering it too. I could not learn the Apostles Creed that well, but might having been getting there when i was praying the Divine Mercy.

Anyway, it is again on stop right now

Simon

When unwanted thoughts enter my mind I say this prayer.

“Dear God, put a shield around my thoughts. I do not want the evil one to be aware that these thoughts come into my mind. Take away the puny power Satan has over me by not allowing him to know that these thoughts affect me.”

I tell God what these thoughts are and ask him to take care of them for me.

I have learned that the Satan can not read your mind unless you give him permission. Asking God to shield these thoughts from Satan gives you the freedom to discuss them with God. Be open, be honest. “God, this is what I am thinking. I don’t want to think these things. Help me.”

In your mind bundle the thoughts that torment you in a basket and lay them at the foot of the cross. Set them before Christ and offer them up to His suffer. Doing this you will share in the suffering of Christ. There is redemption in this form of suffering.

 

[Triflelfirt]

Yes, we can. Hell is a choice; God doesn’t force Himself on anyone. And if we reject the very Being that is Love, Good and Truth, we can’t have anything that is anywhere similar to love, good or truth. Hence the immense suffering of hell.

From that it doesn’t follow, however, that people actually go to hell, only that they can potentially go to hell. I myself have an enormous difficulty to believe so many people go to hell because of some mortal sins (almost anyone you meet at College or Work or anywhere, really; people fornicate, masturbate, don’t go to Mass, don’t fully believe, etc). It brings me much sorrow. So I like to believe that all people (or nearly all people) go to Heaven (even if they have to go through purgatory); that is, I believe in a result similar to “universal reconciliation”.

However, I do NOT believe in universalism as it is articulated by many heretical sects nowadays, nor in the sort of apokatastasis defended by Origen (both positions are condemned by the Church). I believe that people CAN go to Hell, but that they ultimately they WON’T go because they all repent, even if it’s at their very last breath.

 

[simonmic]

I like how you people word things together. Poetic even, at times.

I don’t consider myself a human anymore and i am resigned to it now. Not anyone or anything will change it now, barring a miracle. Why couldn’t He remain on earth when resurrected, or at least allow us to see Him just once in our lifetimes?

Everrything is invisible but still there apparently …Transubstantiation- IINVISIBLE!

If Our Lady, on her coming feast day of Lourdes, can hear me, then please answer me in a way i can believe in you:crying:

If you say i send myself to hell, then so be it.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to the endless night.

Simon

 

[HelenRose]

I like how you people word things together. Poetic even, at times.

I don’t consider myself a human anymore and i am resigned to it now. Not anyone or anything will change it now, barring a miracle. Why couldn’t He remain on earth when resurrected, or at least allow us to see Him just once in our lifetimes?

Everrything is invisible but still there apparently …Transubstantiation- IINVISIBLE!

If Our Lady, on her coming feast day of Lourdes, can hear me, then please answer me in a way i can believe in you:crying:

If you say i send myself to hell, then so be it.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to the endless night.

Simon

You are not a puppet. I don’t think God will pull your strings in such and such a way so you will believe. He will not force you to believe.

I only know for me…not believing is a dark and cold place to be and I choose not to be there.

 

[Jubilarian]

You are not a puppet. I don’t think God will pull your strings in such and such a way so you will believe. He will not force you to believe.

I only know for me…not believing is a dark and cold place to be and I choose not to be there.

Ancient civilizations chose the sun, the moon, and all types of gods not to feel like you do as well.

 

[simonmic]

You are not a puppet. I don’t think God will pull your strings in such and such a way so you will believe. He will not force you to believe.

I only know for me…not believing is a dark and cold place to be and I choose not to be there.

I would rather He did force me. I OFTEN HEAR PEOPLE SAY “SEEK”…but if one can’t find,THEN MAYBE HE SHOULD SEEK ME FOR ONCE!

I CHOOSE NOT TO “PRETEND” TO BELIEVE…THAT IS HONESTY.

Dark place? I’m rather used to it now. It may be my choice to go to hell because of my sins, if this is all real, but not my choice if the belief is not there.

You talk about force? Well i will not force myself to believe in something that i wish i could believe ,but can’t

 

[NoelFitz]

My answer is ‘no’. This is a permanent problem for me. If I could answer it I would be God. There are things one cannot understand fully, and the problem of evil is one of these. One can consider whether God is good if evil/hell exists? But we cannot understand why there is a hell.

 

[NoelFitz]

Triflefirt
thank you for a brilliant post. You seem sincere and knowledgeable, and go as far a a Catholic can in believing all will be saved. Rahner, Hans urs Von Balthasar, and most Catholics now seem to believe there is the reasonable hope that all people will be saved.
I would love to read more about this hope, and its acceptance by the Church.
It is impossible to believe in a loving all-powerful God who creates people who will suffer for all time excruciating pain. Can grace, providence help us to choose good?
“It is the will of God that all will be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth”.

Jesus/God came on earth to save sinners. Can we believe he failed in his task?

 

[simonmic]

Hans urs Von Balthasar?

I did a google search last week (know next to nothing about him i might add, except he wrote a ton of books in his life) and found his book about Hoping all would be saved…Never read it though…Apparently Judas may have had a chance?