Can you tell who in this picture is in full communion with Rome?

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Kitty_Chan said:
Things I noticed are:
3 fellows have staffs/ canes
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Making them bishops or abbots. Since they also have engolpia (icons on their chests), they are bishops. If they had a second engolpion they’d most likely be primates.

I would hope we couldn’t tell the difference between Orthodox and Eastern or Oriental Catholic by vestments alone. I think we would have a better chance with the Byzantines if they were vested for liturgy as I’ve never seen an Eastern Catholic with an epigonation and most have a pre-sewn omophorion.

The second guy in from left is obviously Latin. 😉
 
Woodstock said:
Making them bishops or abbots. Since they also have engolpia (icons on their chests), they are bishops. If they had a second engolpion they’d most likely be primates.

The second guy in from left is obviously Latin. 😉
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Sooo the fellow on the far right doesnt have a staff is it? so he must not be a bishop?

I thought the 2 fellow looked more like the pope. (Please, I hope thats not insulting) I simply dont know, have not thought about these things.

🙂
 
Kitty_Chan said:
Sooo the fellow on the far right doesnt have a staff is it? so he must not be a bishop?

I thought the 2 fellow looked more like the pope. (Please, I hope thats not insulting) I simply dont know, have not thought about these things.

🙂
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Since he has an engolpion, he’s a bishop. Don’t know why he doesn’t have his staff. I’m unfamiliar with the Oriental practice regarding staffs. That could explain the lack, among other things.

I’ve been racking my brain for an example of an Eastern Catholic with two engolpia, one with the Theotokos and the second with Christ, and haven’t hit upon any. I would like to know if there are any who regularly wear two. It is quite possible they are primates without two, but having two almost assuredly means they are primates or close to it.

The second guy in looks like the pope because he’s dressed in traditionally Latin vestments. Notice the pectoral cross, the scarlet fascia (sash), the mozetta (small cape), the zuchetto (skull cap), and the colored piping and buttons on his black cassock. He’s the only one I recognize.
 
I recognize at least one Catholic Patriarch in the front row, possibly two but the picture is a little blurry to me. I could swear that the third man in from the left in the front looks like His Beatititude Gregory III, Patriarch of the Melkite Church.

If so I would imagine that the picture is from a meeting of the various Antiochian Churches (Maronite, Syriac, Melkite, ect), possibly both Catholic and Orthodox.

The photo is from the website of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, though, so who knows (I think he’s the second from the left in the front, btw). 😛
 
Not sure either, but from what I see, those who are Eastern Catholics have a Roman collar on their cassocks; Orthodox wouldn’t be caught wearing a rassa with a Roman collar.
 
Are they all in communion? I’m counting 23 of them. One representative for each church?
 
This seems to be a gathering of Eastern Bishops, some of whom are of the Byzatine tradition, and some of whom aren’t (judging from the headgear).

Which ones are Eastern Catholic and which are not is still another guess.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I think the 3rd guy from the left isn’t a Bishop at all… Though he is wearing red so he might be a cardinal 😛
 
yeshua said:
I will give a hint:

I spy a Maronite! 😛

Peace and God Bless!
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Hey yeshua, would the fourth one from the right, the shortest one, in the front be a Maronite. I was just looking at the Maronite voice for last month saw him or a bishop that looked like him in a photo of the Maronite synod. I did not see a list of names though so I don’t know his name. Maybe it is the patriarch?
 
Second from the left looks to be His Beattitude Michael Sabbah, Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Also, as an aside, amongst Byzantines, especially slavs, pectoral crosses are not reserved to bishops, but can be awadred to priests for a variety of reasons. Bishops get the engolpion. Bishops may or may not wear their pectoral cross when not vested, and are entitled to one if they choose to wear it.

In some cases, pectoral crosses are given to deacons, and to mnastic lay persons. In the Ruthenian Metropolitan church, Abbots and Abbesses are permitted a pectoral cross.

I believe most of the priests of Van Nuys wear pectoral crosses.

Primates get a second engolpion. Sometimes non-primatial metropolitans have been (rightly or wrongly) bestowed with a second.

Bishops have two staves; one liturgical and one traveling. Depending upon particular law, they may or may not be permitted to bear it outside their home church’s area of authority, and properly, most do not bear their liturgical one outside their own see or province.

CCEO canon 338 requires localized dignities’ insignia not to be used outside the territory of the granting authority without permission of the local hierarch unless accompanying the granting individual.
 
jimmy said:
Hey yeshua, would the fourth one from the right, the shortest one, in the front be a Maronite. I was just looking at the Maronite voice for last month saw him or a bishop that looked like him in a photo of the Maronite synod. I did not see a list of names though so I don’t know his name. Maybe it is the patriarch?
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Yes, His Beatitude Mar Nasrallah Boutros Cardinal Sfeir. 🙂

Peace and God Bless!
 
My presumption would be that the photo is from the Annual Congress of the Catholic Patriarchs of the East - which is what usually brings this august body together in one place.

From the building, which I recognize from elsewhere, the photo was taken somewhere on the grounds of the Armenican Catholic Patriarchate at Bzommar, Lebanon.

Any hierarchs or clergy not in communion will most likely be Antiochenes (Syriac Orthodox) and Antiochians (Antiochian Orthodox), as both are typically represented there.

The first row - left to right

His Holiness Mar Emmanuel III (Karim) Cardinal Delli, Catholicos and Patriarch of Babylon and Ur of the Chaldees for the Catholic Chaldeans & Arch-Eparch of Baghdad of the Chaldeans

His Beatitude Michael Sabbagh, Patriarch of Jerusalem of the Latins & Archbishop of Jerusalem

His Beatitude Gregory III (Loutfi) Laham, BSO, Patriarch of Antioch and All The East, of Alexandria, and of Jerusalem, of the Melkite Greek Catholics & Arch-Eparch of Antioch of the Melkites

His Beatitude Nerses Bedros XIX Tarmouni, Catholicos & Patriarch of Cilicia of the Armenias for All the Catholic Armenians & Arch-Eparch of Cilicia of the Armenians

His Beatitude Mar Nasrallah Boutros Cardinal Sfeir, Patriarch of Antioch and All The East of the Maronites & Arch-Eparch of Antioch of the Maronites

His Beatitude Ignace IV Hazim, Patriarch of Antioch & All the East of the Roman Orthodox (Antiochians)

His Beatitude Mar Ignace Pierre VIII (Gregoire) Abdel-Ahad, Patriarch of Antioch and All The East of the Syrian Catholics & Arch-Eparch of Antioch of the Syrians

His Holiness Antonios Naguib, Patriarch of Alexandria of the Catholic Copts & Arch-Eparch of Alexandria of the Copts

As to the others, I can pick and choose a few:

Second row -

2nd from left (in white) I think is His Excellency Roland Abu-Jaoude, who is an Auxiliary of the Arch-Eparchy of Antioch of the Maronites

4th from left (with purple edging on his riassa) is likely a Syriac Catholic chorepiscopus

Third row -

1st at left (purple sash falling from his waist) is probably a Maronite bishop - relatively youthful looking - I have a feeling that I should be able to put a name to him, but I’m blanking

2nd from left (wearing the Koobuono) is almost assuredly a Syriac Orthodox bishop - probably from the Archdiocese of Beirut

Fourth row -

1st at left (reddish-purple piping on his riassa) is most likely an Armenian Catholic bishop

Fifth row -

2nd from left (not much showing) might be Sayednah Youssef Kallas, Arch-Eparch of Beirut & Jbeil of the Melkites

4th from left (last in row), with what look to be reddish/purple buttons on a latin-style outer vesture, is probably an Armenian Catholic bishop as well.

Many years,

Neil
 
Ok class,

I will give you the full breakdown of this picture sometime later tonight. By all means, you may continue to guess until then.

CatholicCid :tsktsk: Mischievous antics will not be permitted in class! Next time, you will have to answer to Vladyka Seraphim :ouch:

Prof. Rony 🤓

P.S. I think he might be a cardinal too 😃
 
oooh, Irish Melkite has just posted before me.

Very good Neil 🙂

Rony
 
Ok, I’ll just give you the info. Here is the link from where the picture is taken (It’s not in English):

lpj.org/newsite2006/news/2006/10/CPCO19102006-fr.html

Below the picture, the info. is given in French:

From left to right, bottom to top (bottom row are all Patriarchs):

The ones in purple are not in full communion with Rome:

1
Emmanuel III Delli (chaldéen, Bagdad), Michel Sabbah (latin, Jérusalem), Gregoire III (grec cath, Beyrouth), Bedros XIX Nersès (arm cath, Beyrouth), Pierre Nasrallah Sfeir (maronite, Bkerki), Ignace IV Hazim (grec orth., Damas), Ignace Pierre VIII (syrien cath, Beyrouth), Antonios Naguib (copte cath, Le Caire).

2
P.Mounir Sakkal ( syr cath, Alep), Ev Abu Jaoudeh (maronite), Ev Elias Awdeh (grec orth., Beyrouth), Mgr George Masri (syrien cath., Beyrouth)

3
Ev Bishara Ra’i (maronite, Jbeil, Liban), Ev George Saliba (syrien orth, Beyrouth), Ev Antone Beylouni (syrien cath, Beyrouth), P. Adel Zaki, ofm (Egypte)

4
Ev Boutros Marayati (arm cath, Alep), Chorévêque Philippe Najm (chaldéen – Europe), Ev Kyrillos William (Egypte),

5
P. Dimas (grec orth, Beyrouth), Ev Youssef Kallas (grec cath. Beyrouth), P. Khalil Alwan (secr gen), Ev Jean Teyrouz (arm cath, vic. patriarchal, Beyrouth)

God bless,

Rony
 
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