Can't learn about salvation by reading scripture alone?

[jphilapy]

vern humphrey:

Where does Paul say that God plays no role in bestowing the gift of faith?

I don’t understand what your question has to do with this topic.
vern humphrey:

And more importantly, how is it that SOME, but not ALL Christian writings are included in the New Testamen?

The Holy Spirit only led some to write, the the same Holy Spirit led some to complete the list and the Holy Spirit confirms those same writings to the sheep.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

So how do the sheep hear His voice?

Jeff

 

[vern_humphrey]

jphilapy:

The Holy Spirit only led some to write, the the same Holy Spirit led some to complete the list and the Holy Spirit confirms those same writings to the sheep.

A great many wrote – far more than are represented in the New Testament.

Who selected out the inspired writings from the mass of good, but uninspired writing?

jphilapy:

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

So how do the sheep hear His voice?

Jeff

They follow the shepards He has appointed. If it were not so, why would there be a John, or a Peter or a Paul?

And what need for Scriptures?

 

[michaelp]

Good question Jeff, but I think you will get the same answer read into this text as well. The institutional Catholic Church is the instrument of declaration and revelation that pours forth Christ’s voice. In other words, we hear Christ’s voice through the Church. See, I am learning.

Michael

 

[michaelp]

vern humphrey:

They follow the shepards He has appointed. If it were not so, why would there be a John, or a Peter or a Paul?

And what need for Scriptures?

Am I good or what?

Vern, I am getting this stuff down.

Merry Christmas both of you,

Michael

 

[jphilapy]

vern humphrey:

They follow the shepards He has appointed. If it were not so, why would there be a John, or a Peter or a Paul?

And what need for Scriptures?

The purpose of John, or a Peter or a Paul as well as scripture is to point us to depend on Jesus. I do believe that some believers are babes and don’t know how to depend on God. But God does not intend for believers to keep eating from the bottle or the shepherds (men here) hands. He intends that all come to the fullness of faith.

I don’t disagree with the use of all available tools such as men and the bible. God in fact uses men.

My issue with your questions is that you come with the assumption that we all have to have someone else interpret scripture for us. I disagree as if we were all infants. Maybe that is where the catholic as well as protestant churches want to keep people. We do all need each other. But not always in the same way. Even the babys have something to teach the adults.
So who do we really need?

Jeff

 

[jphilapy]

As an example of what I am talking about read the following:

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The author of Hebrews expresses that the believers should be at a point where they no longer need to be taught. However they are in need of it again.

And then John writing to the believers tell them:
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

They had no need because they were mature.

Jeff

 

[Athanasiy]

The Catholic Church is here to guide and protect us. As much as I love bible study I don’t have the time (I live in the “world” I have to work, attend to my kids etc.)and bra(name removed by moderator)ower (compared to others such as Augustine & Aquinas) to study every subtle nuance every time an issue comes up. And when I’ve tried I’m amazed at how much I miss just trying to do it by myself! At times I am ignorant and unstable, its part of being a human being, but the church is clear and stable in her teaching.



Thank You

 

[mark_a]

Is the question about reading scripture by one’s lonesome or reading only scripture?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Over in the bible study group on the Epistle of James, we were discussing the “faith versus works” question. Many Protestants point out that Paul seems to reject (or downplay) works, while James upholds works.

Turns out that there are two Greek words for "works.’ One, which Paul uses, means something like “strict adherence to the rules” (and remember, before his conversion, Paul was a Pharasee – one who sought salvation through strict adherence to the rules.) The other word, which James uses connotes more closely to “charity” or “helping.”

Now, how are people who don’t speak Greek as it was spoken in the time of Paul and James supposed to know that?

 

[Athanasiy]

Ok, I didn’t read all the above posts, but I didn’t see these quotes as I was skimming through. . .

2Pet 1:20 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

2 Pet 3:15-17
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

The Catholic Church is here to guide and protect us. As much as I love bible study I don’t have the time (I live in the “world” I have to work, attend to my kids etc.)and bra(name removed by moderator)ower (compared to others such as Augustine & Aquinas) to study every subtle nuance every time an issue comes up. And when I’ve tried I’m amazed at how much I miss just trying to do it by myself! At times I am ignorant and unstable, its part of being a human being, but the church is clear and stable in her teaching.

Yes. Exactly . Just read the words of wisdom 3:5 attentively.
The Bible is not just the Book of the questions and answers.
Its a Deep Theology. Very difficult subject.
You can not decide the problem of Authority with the Bible alone.
You can not decide the problem of Authority with the mosaics of the Denominations.
I have studied the Biblical Theology.
I have got the Biblical Dictionaries and Guide-Books.
There are many Protestant and Evangelical Scholars who devoted their lives for the Theology Study and they have their own interpretations and thoughts.
I can not decide, sometimes , which interpretation is right ?
I read their references and can not get the right one.
I have ‘’ The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible’’, I have access to the Original Languages, but it does not save me from the multiple Interpretation.
The multiple Interpretation- is the result of study out of the Church Authority.
The Bible does not exist for the Bible sake.
The Church created the Bible , not the Bible created the Church.
The Church gave birth of the Salvation Doctrines( Trinity, Incarnation,Heaven and Hell, and all the rest…)
So read the Church Cathechism with the references to the Bible, read the Bible but with the Church explanations and interpretations of the Bible.

But not Bible Alone !
Never Bible Alone !
It is proved that, any body can build the Theological Construction even based on the half of the Scripture verse.
I am from the Evangelical Church but , I am almost Catholic , few steps left.

We Evangelicals insist that we saved the truth and respect to the Bible.
But we believe in the Science( many of us).
Because there are some sins,’’ modern sins’’, which You can not find in the Bible reading it alone.
Even if You shall dedicate the Years.
You need the Church.
The Catholic Church.
Her 2000 years theological experience, is in the Cathechism.
You will not be wrong putting You trust on the Church.
But reading Bible alone, You can come to the conclusion , that potatoes is not allowed to eat , just because it is not written in the Bible.
God Bless.

 

[Athanasiy]

If You are literate ( my grand till this day can’t read, He is illiterate. Notice please its 21-st century. How looks the Idea of Bible alone, if some people are illiterate in the 21-st century ? )
If You have the adequate leisure time ( remind the wisdoms 3:5 words)
In Your best You can get some knowledge, which is already exist , without Your searches and examinations, without Your explorations and tests.
But without the Church Authority , Your Bible Study will be like the chicken without hen, who runs after any moving object.

As chicken needs the mother, the hen.
So we need the Church , and her Cathechism.
My personal advise-Read the Bible with Cathechism