Can't use Yaweh any more?

[HollyDolly]

While at mass this past Sunday, I was trying to find the next hymn to sing at communion.As I was browsing through the 2010 edition of Bread of Life book,i saw two hymns,no.444,and 584.The first one is God is my Saviour I think ,but can’t remember the name of the other. Anyhow, below these to hymns it said,"According to an August 2008 directive from the Vatican,the name Yaweh was no longer permitted to be used in the liturgy or music, and that this hymn had been modified, or words to that effect.
My question to you all,is why? What’s wrong with Yaweh? Just nosy really, but I’m sure the Vatican has some reason for the directive.

 

[Elizium23]

It is based on section 41c of Liturgiam Authenticam,

c) in accordance with immemorial tradition, which indeed is already evident in the above-mentioned “Septuagint” version, the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) and rendered in Latin by the word Dominus, is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning.

Here’s a CNS story about the directive. In part, it says:

“As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: ‘Adonai,’ which means ‘Lord,’” the Vatican letter said. Similarly, Greek translations of the Bible used the word “Kyrios” and Latin scholars translated it to “Dominus”; both also mean Lord.

“Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds,” the letter said. “Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church’s tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.”

Note that the words Yahweh, Jehovah, and equivalents are already not used at all in the Missale Romanum or its translations, and that it was mostly just a handful of hymns that have not observed the custom that was already in effect from time immemorial.

 

[choy]

While at mass this past Sunday, I was trying to find the next hymn to sing at communion.As I was browsing through the 2010 edition of Bread of Life book,i saw two hymns,no.444,and 584.The first one is God is my Saviour I think ,but can’t remember the name of the other. Anyhow, below these to hymns it said,"According to an August 2008 directive from the Vatican,the name Yaweh was no longer permitted to be used in the liturgy or music, and that this hymn had been modified, or words to that effect.
My question to you all,is why? What’s wrong with Yaweh? Just nosy really, but I’m sure the Vatican has some reason for the directive.

out of repect to Jews who are our cousins in faith, we will not use God’s most Holy Name in the same fashion that they avoid speaking it in fear of breaking the commandment, “Thou shalt not take the Lord’s name in vain”

another issue is that the proper pronounciation for God’s Name is still under debate. while Yahweh is the most likely pronounciation, its still not conclusive. so what happens if its the wrong name? we end up praying to someone else.

 

[gracedorsey]

OK, that explains why I couldn’t find one of my favorite hymns in the book.

A few years ago, a priest whose homilies I enjoyed spoke about the name “Yaweh” and it’s meaning to Jesus. He told us that when Jesus used that name for His Father, it was His most intimate form of address. He told us that Yaheh meant in theory, God’s Love. Of course he did give us the background on the word as it is used in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament. But he told us that when Jesus used that name to address His Father, it was a complete expression of His love, faith, and devotion in a very close and intimate way. That particular Homily will always stick in my mind.

Therefore, this decision makes me sad

youtube.com/watch?v=Bsc-T5edJrU&feature=related
If you’d like to hear it.

 

[Brendan]

OK, that explains why I couldn’t find one of my favorite hymns in the book.

A few years ago, a priest whose homilies I enjoyed spoke about the name “Yaweh” and it’s meaning to Jesus. He told us that when Jesus used that name for His Father, it was His most intimate form of address. He told us that Yaheh meant in theory, God’s Love. Of course he did give us the background on the word as it is used in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament. But he told us that when Jesus used that name to address His Father, it was a complete expression of His love, faith, and devotion in a very close and intimate way. That particular Homily will always stick in my mind.

Therefore, this decision makes me sad.

But Jesus could say the Divine Name, because that was His Name too. “I AM Who AM”, no one else can say that without actually claiming to be God.

That is why we do not say that. Why would anyone (at least anyone sane) go about saying that they are Existance itself, that the very WHO THEY ARE defines what it means to Exist. When anyone says “Yahweh”, THAT is what they are saying.

God can say that, we cannot, nor should we even try.

 

[Elizium23]

youtube.com/watch?v=Bsc-T5edJrU&feature=related
If you’d like to hear it.

I loved this hymn very much in my childhood, and I don’t think we’ve ever done it in choir. While it can still be performed with a word substitution, it won’t have quite the same intimacy.

I found out about this rule only last year, when our choir was rehearsing “Let the King of Glory Come” by Joncas. The first verse goes: “Who is the King of glory? Yahweh, holy and strong! Who is the Lord of majesty? Yahweh, mighty and strong!” Our director was aware of it and told us to cross out “Yahweh” and write in “Jesus” and to sing it that way. Again, the song lost some of its meaning there, particularly by changing the sense from God the Father to Jesus the Son!

May I suggest as an alternate to “Yahweh, I Know You Are Near” would be “Like a Shepherd.” This one is especially good for Advent but it is general-purpose, to be used any time of the year.

 

[Brendan]

Again, the song lost some of its meaning there, particularly by changing the sense from God the Father to Jesus the Son!

“Yahweh” is a statement of indentity of the Holy Trinity. The God of Abraham is not just God the Father, but God the Son and God the Holy Spirit as well.

So I wouldn’t say that it was the change that you describe.

In fact, since the song also references the “King of Glory”, that is a Christological term, since Christ is the King of Glory, holding the throne prefigured by David.

So using the name “Jesus” in place of “Yahweh” was very appropriate.

 

[malphono]

Note that the words Yahweh, Jehovah, and equivalents are already not used at all in the Missale Romanum or its translations

Yes, that’s the point exactly.

it was mostly just a handful of hymns that have not observed the custom that was already in effect from time immemorial.

I recall when the word “Yahweh” came into fashion in the late 1960s. Those teaching religion classes in parochial schools (early on, it was still mostly religious sisters with “modified” habits at first, then no habits at all), CCD (usually directed by those very same religious sisters), etc, all of sudden started using that word when speaking of the OT. Apparently it was part of the whole “spirit of Vatican II” thing, and frankly I could never make sense of it. I’m very pleased that the pendulum has officially swung back to where it should have stayed all along.

 

[PacoG]

out of repect to Jews who are our cousins in faith, we will not use God’s most Holy Name in the same fashion that they avoid speaking it in fear of breaking the commandment, “Thou shalt not take the Lord’s name in vain”

another issue is that the proper pronounciation for God’s Name is still under debate. while Yahweh is the most likely pronounciation, its still not conclusive. so what happens if its the wrong name? we end up praying to someone else.

I haven’t heard either of those reasons as the reasons for the ban on the liturgical use of the Most Holy Name. Can you point me to a citation that states either of those reasons.

 

[PacoG]

The “holy and strong” language would seem to come almost directly from the Good Friday reproaches. In Reproach I…

Holy is God!
Holy and strong!

The Holy Name is never used anywhere in the liturgy of the Church.

Secondly, any reference to or action of any Person of the Trinity by nature implies the other two Persons. Giving praise and honor to the Son gives praise and honor to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

[MarkThompson]

I haven’t heard either of those reasons as the reasons for the ban on the liturgical use of the Most Holy Name. Can you point me to a citation that states either of those reasons.

You’re right, neither of those was given as a reason. You can read the letter from Cardinal Arinze containing this instruction here. The primary motivation appears to be “immemorial tradition.”

 

[choy]

You’re right, neither of those was given as a reason. You can read the letter from Cardinal Arinze containing this instruction here. The primary motivation appears to be “immemorial tradition.”

didn’t i just say the same thing but paraphrased?

 

[PacoG]

didn’t i just say the same thing but paraphrased?

No. I don’t see your two reasons anywhere in Cardinal Arinze’s letter.

 

[MarkThompson]

didn’t i just say the same thing but paraphrased?

The reasons you gave were respect to Jews and uncertainty about the pronunciation. Those may or may not have been reasons for the directive (I tend to doubt it), but they’re not among the reasons expressed in the public letter.

 

[choy]

The reasons you gave were respect to Jews and uncertainty about the pronunciation. Those may or may not have been reasons for the directive (I tend to doubt it), but they’re not among the reasons expressed in the public letter.

well, maybe its just my understanding of it, plus other stuff i read about the issue

 

[gracedorsey]

I was telling my husband about this discussion and why the Church decided we shouldn’t use “Yaweh” in the Liturgy or Hymns. I thought he summed it up quite well. He said the way of the Church seemed to be going the way of our culture which is to “dumb it down” for those of us who can’t read or pronounce the words.

I really think it’s pretty dumb that they made this decision when there are so many other issues that are so much more important.

 

[choy]

I was telling my husband about this discussion and why the Church decided we shouldn’t use “Yaweh” in the Liturgy or Hymns. I thought he summed it up quite well. He said the way of the Church seemed to be going the way of our culture which is to “dumb it down” for those of us who can’t read or pronounce the words.

I really think it’s pretty dumb that they made this decision when there are so many other issues that are so much more important.

as mentioned earlier, Yahweh was never used in liturgy nor scripture in the past, why use it today? and its not about dumbing things down

 

[MarkThompson]

I was telling my husband about this discussion and why the Church decided we shouldn’t use “Yaweh” in the Liturgy or Hymns. I thought he summed it up quite well. He said the way of the Church seemed to be going the way of our culture which is to “dumb it down” for those of us who can’t read or pronounce the words.

Well, you didn’t even spell it right, so what does that say?

I really think it’s pretty dumb that they made this decision when there are so many other issues that are so much more important.

What a tired argument. As though a church of 1.1 billion people with 3000 bishops has to tackle issues one at a time.

 

[Brendan]

What a tired argument. As though a church of 1.1 billion people with 3000 bishops has to tackle issues one at a time.

My thoughts exactly!!

Why should the Church only work on one thing at a time?

When there a lots of mistakes being made, we should correct as many of them as we can all at once.

 

[MarkThompson]

My thoughts exactly!!

Why should the Church only work on one thing at a time?

It’s what I call “How can you possibly think about X when there are people dying in Darfur?” syndrome. No one who makes the argument is ever concerned about your misplaced priorities; they just don’t like whatever it was that you did about X.