CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

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" We hold these truths to be self - evident : that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Or we can paraphrase Charles Maurrus

'For monarchy to become evil tyranny , one man must very evil. For democracy to become evil tyranny, a majority of the people must be totally evil. Which is more likely?’

Or, if you want a more recent philosopher:

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it’s evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

No one is going to buy what you are selling. Well, maybe the few who could get power to control others might.
 
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Salmonslayer said:
I’m not delusional enough to think it’s feasible to bring monarchies back. But I do not think democracy is all it’s cracked up to be.
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Godless Democracy is little different from tyranny, it just takes longer to accomplish the evils they set out to enact.

Godless Monarchy is tyranny.

The problem isn’t so much the form of government, but the fact that people are godless.
 
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Do you think it might be hypocritical for conservatives to be critical of the Honduran caravan while a couple of decades back, they would have been more sympathetic to the Cuban refugees due to the political situation? To be far, both groups are/were in a tough situation. Doesn’t Monroe Doctrine give us adequate jurisdiction and to help out our Central American neighbors? For example why not strengthen humanitarian assistance and development programming to create brighter futures for the region and reduce incentives for illegal migration?
 
America has enough space and money to let in 100 million refugees, why the worry about 5000?

I thought a wall was being built anyway?
 
If someone wants to continue an anti-democracy thread, promote a theocracy, plutocracy, fascism, or whatever, why doesn’t someone start a new thread instead of this hijack agenda stuff.
 
This whole sad episode reminds me of the sketch; Derek and Clive Live: “Squatter and the Ant” (Peter Cooke, Dudley Moore).

The ant represents the caravan, see if Squatter reminds you of anyone. slightly colourful language.

 
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Yesteryears Caravan…(((HI Gramma)))….40th row, 12th in…lol
 
midori said:
If you’re a refugee, you claim asylum in the first border you cross
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Why? What if the first border is to a country that won’t welcome refugees, or that country is under the thumbs of the people you’re running from?
midori said:
If I was fleeing from Dallas or DC, does it make sense to not stop running until I got to Saskatoon or Denver?
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If I’m fleeing from someone with a long reach, maybe it would.
midori said:
The next question is, what’s wrong in Honduras that people are running from it? Hint: a lot of it is corruption, a lot of it is gang violence, and a lot of the two are related.
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Why is that not a legitimate reason to run away?
 
Immigration laws have changed over the years. They also differ between countries. I see your point, but it really is a different situation.

I am glad your Gramma made it here! I pray she has had a wonderful life.
 
midori said:
If you’re a refugee, you claim asylum in the first border you cross
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I see people staying this a lot. I understand what is being stated. But let me ask, would you want to claim asylum in Guatemala or even Mexico? Neither country is any better than what these people are fleeing.
 
13pollitos said:
But let me ask, would you want to claim asylum in Guatemala or even Mexico?
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What is the purpose of claiming asylum?

It’s because your human rights are being violated in the place you’re escaping from.

So you have to escape the sovereignty of your own nation.

There is a distinction between an asylum-seeker and a normal resident alien abroad.

If you want to be a resident alien abroad, there’s one process. If you want to claim asylum, there’s another process.
 
I understand that. There is a reasonable expectation that if they claim asylum in either Guatemala or Mexico, that they will not be escaping anything though. The situations in both countries are on the same level as most of Latin America. Why do you think so many Guatemalans and Mexicans have joined them on the journey north? The are sections of Mexico that the murder rate is HIGHER than in Honduras. Kidnapping rates are higher. Economically they aren’t much better off, and many Mexicans are worse off. Guatemala is not any better, especially economically. It is somewhat safer. A former diocese i lived in started sending their priests to Guatemala for Spanish immersion programs instead of Mexico for safety reasons. Mexico has the highest murder rates for priests in the world. Ask any Mexican and they will tell you it would not make sense to apply for asylum on their country.
 
13pollitos said:
Why do you think so many Guatemalans and Mexicans have joined them on the journey north?
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But why north?

Why not south to Costa Rica or Panama, which are both significantly safer, and have the additional benefit of a common language and culture, in addition to being a fraction of the distance?

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Seriously? Sections of Mexico, like where my in laws live, have higher murder rates than Honduras. It has the highest murder rate for priests in the world. It has one of the largest gaps between rich and poor in the world. It’s “not so bad” in select tourist areas. Beyond that, there are US travel advisories warning of the safety of travelers even.

You are right that it is better than many places in Latin America, though. That’s the reason so many are dying trying to leave.
 
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You seriously believe that? With the cartels and politians in Mexico killing each other and everyone else, how Can poor migrants fix that? They are leaving because they can’t fix their own country.
 
That aside, many have decided to migrate to and settle in Mexico, including some on this caravan.


I am worried for the security of our border. I know not everyone who migrates is a “good person,” but some of the things people assume or state are just wrong. Latin America needs help. If we don’t want continuos migration, what are we going to do about it? Other countries much worse off than us are actually doing more than they get credit for.
 
That is illegal in most of their countries. And not helpful. This is my last response to you.
 
It’s sad though. Mexico is a beautiful country, rich in resources. I hope corruption ends soon. The tourism industry must be suffering too. Acapulco was once a great tourist destination, now it’s no longer safe.

Our Lady of Guadalupe pray for your children in Mexico.
 
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