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AgejevDominik
Guest
They are not refugees as soon as they step foot on foreign soil of a country that does not persecute them. They can’t go shopping for health care benefits.
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Elkcreek
Guest
I am pretty sure our founder would let them in accept them and take care of them to the best of his ability with the resources at hand (well he can do way more that that but you get the idea). That’s what Christians do. That is, they do what they can. You can’t argue your way out of it. That’s what Fox News and other fake news organizations do. You can’t justify yourself with this point of view either, your just playing with words. And the way things are going in our country we are not too much further down the list of targets. People of color, Jews, then Catholics and so on. How would you feel? We can’t fix Honduras but we can take care of them.
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Zaccheus
Guest
Different processes, yes. Not meaning to be rude but so what?13pollitos:
What is the purpose of claiming asylum?
It’s because your human rights are being violated in the place you’re escaping from.
So you have to escape the sovereignty of your own nation.
There is a distinction between an asylum-seeker and a normal resident alien abroad.
If you want to be a resident alien abroad, there’s one process. If you want to claim asylum, there’s another process.
If you flee your homeland because your civil rights are taken from you, why would you want to settle in another country that will take away those same rights?
If you flee because you fear to be murdered, why settle where the murderers can still reach you?
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midori
Guest
Our founder was very interested in eternal souls-- he made a point of combating spiritual poverty, rather than material poverty. He was the only person in the history of the world who was able to choose when and where and under what circumstances he was born to— and what did he pick? He was the only person in the history of the world who was able to choose under what circumstances he would die— and he chose to subjugate himself not just to the laws of his nation, but to the laws of his nation’s oppressors, as an example of humility and obedience.
You see it in the lives of the saints over and over and over and over. They are unjustly oppressed. But they humbly submit to authority in their lives. And when they wonder whether God is against them, allowing so many obstacles against doing what they feel like they ought to be doing-- and God kindly explains to them that he allows it so that they cultivate that reliance on him, and the virtues of patience and humility and obedience. And eventually, the truth shines through. From our perspective, it’s wasted time and wasted opportunity, but from the eternal perspective, they racked up a whole lot of treasure in heaven for the way they handled adversity.
I’m not saying Christians should do nuthin’. But I am saying that all the energy and attention is being directed into the wrong channels. I think that anyone who knows history will agree that Honduras has never been a politically quiet, steady, calm place. Some of the present corruption has its roots in our efforts to eradicate communism decades ago. We also frown on colonialism, reaching into other countries and saying, “You’re not able to run your own nation, hun. Let us take care of that for you—!” even when it’s obvious that the other countries really can’t run their own nation (except over a cliff!).
What would be five things you would do to fix the problem at its source, so that people can live in peace in the country they are citizens of, and presumably love?
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Zaccheus
Guest
Someone in Guatemala wants to murder me so I flee to the US. Do I really have to fear that now the US murderers will come after me, perhaps as a professional courtesy to the Guatemalan murderers?
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1cthlctrth
Guest
It’s disheartening that so many in the open borders crowd don’t seem to consider the children in this whole unvetted illegal immigrant debate. What about children brought over the border who are victims of sex-trafficking? What about the kids who become addicted to the opioids brought over the border through drug cartels?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-nearly-all-998-of-illegal-drugs-shipped-to-us-from-mexico
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-nearly-all-998-of-illegal-drugs-shipped-to-us-from-mexico
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Peeps
Guest
i agree that the CHURCH should accept and take care of immigrants and refugees to the best of our ability.
I do NOT agree that the U.S. government should take care of immigrants and refugees.
The President is absolutely right to say that the U.S. government should not be accepting the Caravan. The U.S. government has demonstrated that it will bungle up big-time caring for immigrants and refugees. Why on earth give them yet MORE immigrants to ruin?
Pres. Obama gave an Executive Order creating DACA to provide for children of immigrants to remain in this country, but he gave very stern warnings to Congress–which Congress has IGNORED!–that they must pass LAWS which will protect children of immigrants permanently.
That’s just one example of how the U.S. has messed up the care of immigrants and refugees. Here is another example of the inability of the U.S. government to provide care: throughout the country, many immigrants live in fear of being discovered as illegals–why hasn’t the U.S. government (Congress, not the President!) made laws that would create a path to amnesty and citizenship for these illegals? (The Executive Branch of the U.S. government is NOT allowed to make laws!! Remember your U.S. Civics class back in high school?)
One more example of U.S. government bungling: immigrants and refugees continue to iive in poverty/destitution, causing them to turn to the criminal gangs and mobs to help them. Many of the immigrants and refugees have never learned American English and live lives virtually isolated from American people, who are often suspicious and fearful of this “nation within a nation.”
Again and again the U.S. government has failed immigrants and refugees who currently struggle along in this country. In some places, the Church and religious organizations and communities have stepped up and are trying to help, but they are greatly hobbled by the failure of the U.S. Congress to create a sensible and compassionate plan that would provide for legal admission and assimilation of immigrants into the country.
President Trump has repeatedly pointed this out and demanded that Congress get busy and pass good laws that would help immigration processes, but the Senators and Representatives have dug in their heels and chosen to blame the whole thing on Pres. Trump (ignoring Pres. Obama’s deportation of thousands of immigrants) and continue accuse the President of bigotry and racism in a pathetic and twisted attempt to persuade their constituents to rise up against their duly-elected President, protest his every breath and his family’s breaths as well, and demand his impeachment, even though he has not committed any crimes!
This is a SIN–Congress is using the immigrants and refugees as a political tool to destroy the President.
I do NOT agree that the U.S. government should take care of immigrants and refugees.
The President is absolutely right to say that the U.S. government should not be accepting the Caravan. The U.S. government has demonstrated that it will bungle up big-time caring for immigrants and refugees. Why on earth give them yet MORE immigrants to ruin?
Pres. Obama gave an Executive Order creating DACA to provide for children of immigrants to remain in this country, but he gave very stern warnings to Congress–which Congress has IGNORED!–that they must pass LAWS which will protect children of immigrants permanently.
That’s just one example of how the U.S. has messed up the care of immigrants and refugees. Here is another example of the inability of the U.S. government to provide care: throughout the country, many immigrants live in fear of being discovered as illegals–why hasn’t the U.S. government (Congress, not the President!) made laws that would create a path to amnesty and citizenship for these illegals? (The Executive Branch of the U.S. government is NOT allowed to make laws!! Remember your U.S. Civics class back in high school?)
One more example of U.S. government bungling: immigrants and refugees continue to iive in poverty/destitution, causing them to turn to the criminal gangs and mobs to help them. Many of the immigrants and refugees have never learned American English and live lives virtually isolated from American people, who are often suspicious and fearful of this “nation within a nation.”
Again and again the U.S. government has failed immigrants and refugees who currently struggle along in this country. In some places, the Church and religious organizations and communities have stepped up and are trying to help, but they are greatly hobbled by the failure of the U.S. Congress to create a sensible and compassionate plan that would provide for legal admission and assimilation of immigrants into the country.
President Trump has repeatedly pointed this out and demanded that Congress get busy and pass good laws that would help immigration processes, but the Senators and Representatives have dug in their heels and chosen to blame the whole thing on Pres. Trump (ignoring Pres. Obama’s deportation of thousands of immigrants) and continue accuse the President of bigotry and racism in a pathetic and twisted attempt to persuade their constituents to rise up against their duly-elected President, protest his every breath and his family’s breaths as well, and demand his impeachment, even though he has not committed any crimes!
This is a SIN–Congress is using the immigrants and refugees as a political tool to destroy the President.
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Peeps
Guest
(continued from last post)
The Catholic Church has to STOP joining in the political fray, and instead, inform the President and Congress that we are ready and waiting to help the immigrants with monies, ESL, and practical aid, and that Congress MUST pass laws that will vet and legalize those who are attempting to enter the country, and also provide a legal path to citizenship for illegals who are currently in the country.
Absolutely NO GOOD will come of continued criticism of the President–the Church will continue to lose members who find the political game-playing unacceptable. Instead of politicizing the issue, we Christians should give money, lots of time, and goods and surround all of our donations with much love. If the Church did this, Congress’ shameful behavior would be brought to light and hopefully, they would repent and stop fighting among themselves and get back to work.
The Catholic Church has to STOP joining in the political fray, and instead, inform the President and Congress that we are ready and waiting to help the immigrants with monies, ESL, and practical aid, and that Congress MUST pass laws that will vet and legalize those who are attempting to enter the country, and also provide a legal path to citizenship for illegals who are currently in the country.
Absolutely NO GOOD will come of continued criticism of the President–the Church will continue to lose members who find the political game-playing unacceptable. Instead of politicizing the issue, we Christians should give money, lots of time, and goods and surround all of our donations with much love. If the Church did this, Congress’ shameful behavior would be brought to light and hopefully, they would repent and stop fighting among themselves and get back to work.
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AlNg
Guest
And Jesus loves children. And He said: Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. Should we follow the advice given by Jesus and welcome the stranger, or should we follow the advice of Mr. Trump and call out the military with their weapons ready to aim and fire at hungry, unarmed, men, women and children? First the US intervenes in Central American countries, then when the population complains, the US turns their military against people who have been hurt by the American intervention.
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HarryStotle
Guest
Typical leftist strategy. Blame all Americans for what some Americans have done. Slavery? Blame all of America for what Democrat Americans did and Republican Americans fought to eradicate.blackforest:
And Jesus loves children. And He said: Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. Should we follow the advice given by Jesus and welcome the stranger, or should we follow the advice of Mr. Trump and call out the military with their weapons ready to aim and fire at hungry, unarmed, men, women and children? First the US intervenes in Central American countries, then when the population complains, the US turns their military against people who have been hurt by the American intervention.
Now it is everyone should shoulder the blame for the policies of Neo-Cons and globalists, including Obama and Clinton who destabilized the entire ME and triggered mass migrations by emboldening radical Islamists. Yes, but let’s blame all Americans so that all must now be responsible for what some have done.
Google “Fast and Furious Obama” to see how badly even supposedly benign Democrat policies under presidents like Obama have been disasterous for other countries.
Trump isn’t responsible for what past Ameican governments have done and he ought not be held to bear that responsibility. He should be judged on what he does, not on what past administrations have done. Besides that, it isn’t very clear that opening borders is the best strategy for dealing with the problems that exist in Central America.
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AlNg
Guest
He hasn’t spoken up against what past American governments have done, and as such children who were harmed should not have to bear the suffering caused by Americans. Jesus wants us to love all children, no? How is it loving children by sending out the military with their weapons including guns and gas to use against children and their parents? Americans have contributed to the ruin of their country, and now that they are suffering from this, the Americans send their military against unarmed children who are suffering from hunger and homelessness. Why don’t Americans help these suffering people, instead of pointing their weapons on them. How many billions of dollars do Americans spend on their many unending wars which only hurt people in the end. What good did all that killing do in Vietnam? Thousands of people dead and billions of dollars spent for what? Why not spend a small portion of that for children who are desperate for a bite to eat and a place to sleep.
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19:14. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these." Mark 12:31. Calling this leftist strategy is a rejection of what we read in the New Testament about loving all children and loving our neighbor. How is it loving your unarmed neighbor and his children who are hurting when you send your military to act against them? Using chemical weapons such as 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile or dibenzoxazepine can cause vomiting, asphyxiation, pulmonary edema or even death.
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1cthlctrth
Guest
As suspected, there is proof that the “caravan” is not coming to the United States for the sole purpose of asylum: Mexico offered asylum, and most of the “caravan” members rejected Mexican asylum. The caravan that is dominated by 70% young-single-males, with a few women and babies shamelessly put in the front as human shields.
blackforest
Well-known member
What do you think they’re going to do once they get here? Steal one of those pool-sweeping or livestock-slaughtering jobs you were hoping to get for yourself?
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HarryStotle
Guest
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HarryStotle
Guest
Sorry, but if the principle you are touting here is that “Love you neighbor as yourself” means every country must permit any foreign peoples to enter their country merely if those people want to enter, then your principle, being a morally obligatory one, must apply at all levels.
You must permit any children or unarmed people who come to your door, in any number, asking for shelter and food to enter your home merely if they ask, because doing anything else contravenes Jesus’ commandments.
You must reassign all other acts of kindness and generosity, no matter what, to those strangers who come asking for help, not at your discretion, but at theirs.
Is that your claim?
No one is permitted dissent or discretion on their part, just obligation to comply because these two principles supersede all others?
I say, if you, personally, choose to do so with your resources, your home, and your goods, then go for it.
Others may think differently.
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AlNg
Guest
My claim is this:
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12.
And Matthew 25:
[ 31]“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. [ 32 ]All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. [ 33 ]He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
[ 34 ]“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. [ 35 ]For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [ 36 ]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
[ 37 ]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [ 38 ]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [ 39 ]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
[ 40 ]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Maybe, but I still would not send the military out to attack desperate and hungry children with chemical agents such as 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile or dibenzoxazepine.
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Peeps
Guest
This post is meant to be a reply to AINg, but for some reason, it doesn’t show up as a “reply”, at least not to me. (I’m probably doing something wrong–not a computer-phile!)
But others are welcome to chime in and answer my questions if they wish.
Can you tell us the things that you are doing and/or plan to do to help the Caravan people?
This is not a sarcastic question. I am genuinely curious to know what fellow Catholics are doing, other than praying (which is good!) to help those who are trying to enter the U.S.
If you are donating money, may I ask what percentage of your income, and which organization receives your donation to help the Caravan people? Again, this is not a sarcastic question. I believe that Catholic Social Services is an amazing and good organization, but I also know that the need is so great in my own city that I hesitate to see them divide up their funding between local people and those people in the Caravan.
Other than CCS, I’m not sure which organizations are trustworthy–I would like more of my donations to go to direct aid and paying people who are doing actual hand-on-work (or clerical work) rather than going to an office to pay people who never go near the border. Of course, I realize that charitable organizations need fundraising staff and executives to meet with rich people–but since the need at the border is so great, I would really like to see donations routed to that immediate need.
That’s why I’m asking about your donations.
Or do you actually live at the border and are you doing actual hands-on work with immigrants and refugees, or will you be at the border in the next few weeks doing hands-on work? I’m curious about this work, and also wonder if you had to learn Spanish (or perhaps you already speak Spanish)? Do you feel that the work you and others do helps to give the immigrants and refugees a good start in the U.S.? Is the care and aid that they are receiving helping them to get a good start in the U.S. and keep them out of the hands of the criminal gangs? I hope so–this is one of my biggest concerns about allowing people into this country who have no support community. And that’s another question I have–when the people leave the shelter at the border where you and others are helping them, are there people waiting to help them at their new location?
Finally, do you mind if I ask how old you are (or at least, what “group” you are part of–Baby Boomers, Gen X or Y, or Millential), and if you have any physical limitations?
Thanks so much for your work on behalf of the Caravan people. If there were more people like you, many of us wouldn’t be so quick to raise concerns and objections.
But others are welcome to chime in and answer my questions if they wish.
Can you tell us the things that you are doing and/or plan to do to help the Caravan people?
This is not a sarcastic question. I am genuinely curious to know what fellow Catholics are doing, other than praying (which is good!) to help those who are trying to enter the U.S.
If you are donating money, may I ask what percentage of your income, and which organization receives your donation to help the Caravan people? Again, this is not a sarcastic question. I believe that Catholic Social Services is an amazing and good organization, but I also know that the need is so great in my own city that I hesitate to see them divide up their funding between local people and those people in the Caravan.
Other than CCS, I’m not sure which organizations are trustworthy–I would like more of my donations to go to direct aid and paying people who are doing actual hand-on-work (or clerical work) rather than going to an office to pay people who never go near the border. Of course, I realize that charitable organizations need fundraising staff and executives to meet with rich people–but since the need at the border is so great, I would really like to see donations routed to that immediate need.
That’s why I’m asking about your donations.
Or do you actually live at the border and are you doing actual hands-on work with immigrants and refugees, or will you be at the border in the next few weeks doing hands-on work? I’m curious about this work, and also wonder if you had to learn Spanish (or perhaps you already speak Spanish)? Do you feel that the work you and others do helps to give the immigrants and refugees a good start in the U.S.? Is the care and aid that they are receiving helping them to get a good start in the U.S. and keep them out of the hands of the criminal gangs? I hope so–this is one of my biggest concerns about allowing people into this country who have no support community. And that’s another question I have–when the people leave the shelter at the border where you and others are helping them, are there people waiting to help them at their new location?
Finally, do you mind if I ask how old you are (or at least, what “group” you are part of–Baby Boomers, Gen X or Y, or Millential), and if you have any physical limitations?
Thanks so much for your work on behalf of the Caravan people. If there were more people like you, many of us wouldn’t be so quick to raise concerns and objections.
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Thrstypirate
Guest
Apparently some of the caravan migrants filed a class action lawsuit against Mr. Trump and the Department of Homeland Security for violating their 5th amendment rights…what!
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midori
Guest
Because it makes total sense for people trying to illegally enter a country to sue the country that’s denying them illegal entry. “Hey, you’re getting in the way of us breaking the law, so let’s use the law to force you to let us break the law—!” rather than saying, “Hey, let’s follow the rules in the first place…”
“Hey, you’re getting in the way of us breaking the law, so let’s use the law to force you to let us break the law—!” rather than saying, “Hey, let’s follow the rules in the first place…”
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13pollitos
Guest
I can’t speak for others, but as a family, we send money to my husband’s town to help improve like there. We also send shoes. Lots of shoes. Because as a child it was the one thing my husband always wanted but never had. If you want to prevent these types caravans, help people where they are. Many will still migrate until safety is ensured. The average American can’t do anything about that. They also WANT to work. They want jobs.
As for immigrants here already? Just be kind. The vast majority aren’t wanting anything more than to work, pay their bills, go to church, send their kids to school, and to give back to the US when the opportunity arises.
Many immigrants that are in the military have a less than ideal start in the US. Some were at one point undocumented. Others were born to undocumented parents. Others married undocumented spouses. The truth is most people that are here illegally has no idea why what they did was wrong. They were just following what others told them is possible. Many attempt to rectify the situation once they learn, but currently there is no clear path to fix their situation. And since 9/11, it’s just gotten harder. It is virtually impossible to fix one’s immigration status. On top of that, there is absolutely no way to bring your family up either. Can you imagine going 20 years or more without seeing family, and the chance is basically zero you ever will again?
If people want to help, or prevent this, work for real reform. Make legal channels, be loving and accepting, support without handouts (provide opportunities), and just treat us like we are American. We give as much as we are allowed. We don’t want free stuff, we want possibilities for our kids.
As for immigrants here already? Just be kind. The vast majority aren’t wanting anything more than to work, pay their bills, go to church, send their kids to school, and to give back to the US when the opportunity arises.
Many immigrants that are in the military have a less than ideal start in the US. Some were at one point undocumented. Others were born to undocumented parents. Others married undocumented spouses. The truth is most people that are here illegally has no idea why what they did was wrong. They were just following what others told them is possible. Many attempt to rectify the situation once they learn, but currently there is no clear path to fix their situation. And since 9/11, it’s just gotten harder. It is virtually impossible to fix one’s immigration status. On top of that, there is absolutely no way to bring your family up either. Can you imagine going 20 years or more without seeing family, and the chance is basically zero you ever will again?
If people want to help, or prevent this, work for real reform. Make legal channels, be loving and accepting, support without handouts (provide opportunities), and just treat us like we are American. We give as much as we are allowed. We don’t want free stuff, we want possibilities for our kids.
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