CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

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We already have walls/fences and have for quite some time. So do most countries around the world. It’s not an unusual concept. And it’s necessary to have one that’s much stronger. No, it won’t completely stop illegal immigrants, but it will certainly slow them down, especially those bringing drugs and weapons across the borders.

It’s now been reported that the border camps are dealing with disease spreading - chicken pox, a polio type illness that doctors have no idea how to treat, tuberculosis, hepatitis, skin infections including MRSA, HIV/AIDS. Most of the people aren’t vaccinated and couple that with the people in this country who refuse to vaccinate and those with suppressed immune systems - we’re asking for a rapid and possibly deadly spread of disease across the country.

I don’t know who it was that told these people to do this. Who told them to just come here and force their way in - putting children’s safety and health at risk. Who it was that ferried them most of the way, but shame on them. It was clearly political, which is awful, these are human beings, not pawns.

What they should be doing is taking back their own country. You can’t have mass immigration like this, it NEVER works. It destabilizes the home country and the new one. We should help them fix their problems but on their own soil and only at their request and not perpetually.
 
100-200 flying home is not significant given the thousands in the caravan. I am bothered at the conditions and feel Mexico and the US should provide better conditions to those waiting to apply as refugees.
 
Thom18 said:
If someone starts throwing rocks and concrete at your son, are you going to open your door to them?
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No, but I would certainly march myself over there and get an explanation.

The problem is the unwillingness to listen to their pleas. Mary and Joseph fled with Jesus to avoid the murderous Herod. They were refugees in a strange land. He could have chosen to come into this world however He wanted. He chose to become a refugee to show us the Way. I don’t doubt there are criminals among the refugees, but the vast majority of them walked all this way to escape horrors. The least we can do is hear what they have to say.

I also agree with the greater obligation to help their own country to be a place where they can live in peace, but in the meantime, we have an obligation to those in need. These are desperate people.
 
guanophore said:
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Thom18:
If someone starts throwing rocks and concrete at your son, are you going to open your door to them?
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No, but I would certainly march myself over there and get an explanation.

The problem is the unwillingness to listen to their pleas. Mary and Joseph fled with Jesus to avoid the murderous Herod. They were refugees in a strange land. He could have chosen to come into this world however He wanted. He chose to become a refugee to show us the Way. I don’t doubt there are criminals among the refugees, but the vast majority of them walked all this way to escape horrors. The least we can do is hear what they have to say.

I also agree with the greater obligation to help their own country to be a place where they can live in peace, but in the meantime, we have an obligation to those in need. These are desperate people.
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That’s a different discussion. The comment that I quoted was concerning the treatment of those at the border (being tear-gassed) when people started throwing rocks at the border patrol. I was saying that we shouldn’t be obligated to allow in those who are trying to harm us, and that using tear gas to disperse the crowd was a justifiable response to a violent crowd who has a violent past (people in this same caravan tried killing a border patrol agent of another country just a month or so ago).
 
Thom18 said:
we shouldn’t be obligated to allow in those who are trying to harm us, and that using tear gas to disperse the crowd was a justifiable response to a violent crowd
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OIC your point, of course.
 
On Nov. 30th, same day an MS-13 gang member from Honduras was detained for illegal entry, they also caught a convicted murderer. DHS confirms 500-600 criminals in the caravan. I can’t post the link (profile’s too new), but it’s easy to find. And it’s USA Today, not Breitbart.
 
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President Obama’s Administration (harmlessly) pepper sprayed illegals. And the Leftist media was OK with that (as they should be).
 
DENNYINMI said:
There but for the Grace of God, go I.
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This has very little to do with the grace of God. It has to do with the political strategies of the Democratic Party to gain power by importing malleable and vulnerable people to use as voters to flip districts, first in Cali, but be wary of the push in places like Georgia, Florida and Texas.

It is called “ballot harvesting,” and soon to be a reality at a politically close district near you, if the Dems get their way.

 
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At the risk of sounding syrupy, I will concur with St. Therese that “everything is Grace”. Regardless of what the conservatives or liberals can conceive outside of the tenants of social justice, Grace can still abound. That is the belief of a Catholic. We can pray His Will be done.
 
I remember my supervisor - saying to me - in a totally astounded tone -
" You think Kavanaugh is innocent " ?? !!!
That was months ago - of course. The women lied.
Thou shalt not lie.
On and on - new devious things keep emerging.
On and on - there’s people - who quickly go along with it -
like a leaf in a stream - as if gospel truth.
 
DENNYINMI said:
At the risk of sounding syrupy, I will concur with St. Therese that “everything is Grace”. Regardless of what the conservatives or liberals can conceive outside of the tenants of social justice, Grace can still abound. That is the belief of a Catholic. We can pray His Will be done.
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Questionable political strategies to grab power have very little to do with grace. And using vulnerable people to further political ends even less.
 
I don’t believe in the conspiracy you presented, but nonetheless thank you for your opinion, discourse as well. I’ll continue to pray for the Grace for all concerned, what man cannot do, God can. bye
 
DENNYINMI said:
I don’t believe in the conspiracy you presented, …
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Let’s not call it a conspiracy, but, rather, a metaphor or representation of a bigger picture.

The caravan represents – embodies, actually – the promise of socialism or collectivism.

A group of activists persuade a larger body to believe them and their vision for the future, so they actively move towards achieving that vision of utopia.

The vision inherently involves bettering your life, not by your own efforts or from your own situation, but by moving towards a utopia where you will benefit from the largesse of others. If that largesse is not forthcoming, then the organizers promise that either by making demands from or shaming or taking from those who have what you want, what you want will be turned over to you.

It isn’t that the organizers, themselves, have the wherewithal to provide what is needed, but they are willing to act as the agents for taking what is needed from others by engaging in aggressive activism and making radical demands.

Once the situation gets to the point that reality sets in and the journey towards utopia turns out to be a failure and facade, the organizers quickly disappear and leave you to your fate in a situation much worse than where you started.

If the organizers had any real heart and intelligence, they wouldn’t promise pipe dreams but undertake the real but difficult work of assisting people where they live by transforming their actual situation into a more livable one.

Decent people, even those who have means, are far more likely to assist others who demonstrate a willingness to help themselves and work hard to better their own situation where they are at than to give to others who are very willing just to take.

The faux compassion of the organizers is clear from the fact that they have not followed through with their promises and stayed to the end but have quietly abandoned what they created and left vulnerable people in even more dire straits.

I suspect the socialist activists have a similar mindset when they promote socialism or collectivism as an EASY way to revolutionize the social and cultural order. Such activism makes these individuals feel like morally superior heroes, and it all seems very straight-forward and easy in the abstract, but when all of the lack of thought, reality of life and impracticalities that were ill-considered converge, and the dream becomes a nightmare, the formerly vocal advocates will quietly melt away leaving a mess for others to clean up.

Do the best in your own situation. That is where God’s grace is to be found.

The early Church never tried to overthrow the Roman Empire and install a collective socialism in its place. They simply loved God and their neighbors close to them and worked hard to better themselves and those nearby, person by person.

This is not as glamorous as activism, nor does it attract worldly attention, but it is the little way that ultimately leaves fewer casualties and less of a disaster.

Radical dreams of overthrowing the evil Empire were not the leaven by which the Church functioned.
 
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guanophore said:
The problem is the unwillingness to listen to their pleas. Mary and Joseph fled with Jesus to avoid the murderous Herod. They were refugees in a strange land. He could have chosen to come into this world however He wanted. He chose to become a refugee to show us the Way. I don’t doubt there are criminals among the refugees, but the vast majority of them walked all this way to escape horrors. The least we can do is hear what they have to say.

I also agree with the greater obligation to help their own country to be a place where they can live in peace, but in the meantime, we have an obligation to those in need. These are desperate people.
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We knew Mary and Joseph qualified because of govt persecution, they would have had no problems getting asylum.

I wish people would stop pretending economic migrants are refugees. .
 
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