CARAVAN heading to The U.S.A ( POLL )

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Theo520 said:
We knew Mary and Joseph qualified because of govt persecution, they would have had no problems getting asylum.
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We know this because we have the rest of the story, but when they arrived in Egypt, who would know? My point is that it seems prudent to ask them.
Theo520 said:
I wish people would stop pretending economic migrants are refugees. .
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Why do you wish that? Perhaps you have never had to suffer poverty, or inability to find work, so that you don’t appreciate that one can be an economic refugee.
 
guanophore said:
We know this because we have the rest of the story, but when they arrived in Egypt, who would know? My point is that it seems prudent to ask them.
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I’m fairly certain it was public knowledge that Herod was searching to kill first born children. They would have qualified for asylum with the rules we have in place today, no hindsight required.
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guanophore said:
Why do you wish that? Perhaps you have never had to suffer poverty, or inability to find work, so that you don’t appreciate that one can be an economic refugee.
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So your argument is that we should offer refuge to anyone seeking a higher income? Think it through please, we can’t afford it.

I think we have a responsibility to provide aide but not to open our doors to all comers.
 
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Theo520 said:
I’m fairly certain it was public knowledge …
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I am fairly certain it is public knowledge that many of these people are fleeing intolerable living conditions. People already in the US would not want to raise their children in such conditions, but we seem to be unable to empathize with others that have less choices.

There is nothing I need or want bad enough to walk all the way to Columbia. That is very telling.
Theo520 said:
So your argument is that we should offer refuge to anyone seeking a higher income?
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I am not sure it is feasible, but I sure can appreciate how and why they are refugees from poverty. These people are not getting their basic needs met.
Theo520 said:
I think we have a responsibility to provide aide but not to open our doors to all comers.
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I am mindful that there are also people trying to sneak in with the needy that are not a benefit to society. It would not be prudent to ignore the risks of admitting people that want to hurt us. But I think the vast majority of them are just desperate and tryng to grasp a better life.

People in the US forget that most of our ancestors came here under exact same circumstances.

It seems that the message of Lady Liberty no longer applies.
 
Actually, there were charter buses involved in the caravan transportation logistics. Who paid for all those buses…?
 
Our actions now will either propagate returning problems or stop the abuse of our country. IT IS A PROCESS. If you have gangrene of your hand, is must be amputated. To let it continue, you lose your arm & life. They’re like little children disobeying their parents & demanding attention. Emotions keepus from making sound decisions.Just put them on hold for a short time. The end result will be good but it will take a few years.
We need immigration laws. We love immigrants. There has to be a balance of ethnic groups. We are a melting pot of ingredients. This Caravan is boiling over & melting the pot. Immigrants were healthy, legal,had a trade, & were counted per ethnic groups for balance.
 
guanophore said:
I am mindful that there are also people trying to sneak in with the needy that are not a benefit to society. It would not be prudent to ignore the risks of admitting people that want to hurt us. But I think the vast majority of them are just desperate and tryng to grasp a better life.

People in the US forget that most of our ancestors came here under exact same circumstances.

It seems that the message of Lady Liberty no longer applies.
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Unfortunately, that’s not the law.

We don’t have to let people in just because they’re “trying to grasp a better life.” We let people in who are in danger, not just because they’re not as well off as they’d like to be.

If we opened our doors to everyone who just wanted a better life, 99 percent of the countries of the world would come. As the other poster said, we can’t afford that.

And on the issue of our ancestors and Lady Liberty, there’s a big difference between coming to a country of 50 million people right after the Industrial Revolution when employers needed jobs, and coming to a country of 300+ million and needing public assistance because there aren’t the jobs to support them.
 
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I remember a story - where a old person fed birds - bought seed - etc -
well, pretty soon she had to buy big huge bags of feed seed -
so many various birds were showing up - fighting with each other too -
soon the neighbors called the Police -
all the cars were being pooped on -
everything was being pooped on - even walking along -
it was a total disaster.
 
prayerrider said:
Actually, there were charter buses involved in the caravan transportation logistics. Who paid for all those buses…?
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A series of photographs of one of the women at the border … taken at her home in Honduras … appears to be of her as a professional model with expensive jewelry.
 
signit said:
We don’t have to let people in just because they’re “trying to grasp a better life.”
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I know, our values in this country have changed. Maybe we need a new plaque for the Lady. We shouldn’t take her down, because she is part of a history that makes us who we are today, but her message is no longer valid.
signit said:
We let people in who are in danger, not just because they’re not as well off as they’d like to be.
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I think this goes quite a bit beyond “as well off as they would like to be”! The vast majority of Americans are not as well off as we would like to be,

My point is that we can at least hear their story. I dont’ even know if it can be investigated, on a practical level, since I understand documents they may have had have been confiscated, and even if they had documents, proving they are in danger may be impossible.

I guess I object to the attitude that we should not be open minded to even allow them to apply.
signit said:
If we opened our doors to everyone who just wanted a better life, 99 percent of the countries of the world would come. As the other poster said, we can’t afford that.
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Yes. It is a valid quandary. 99 % of the immigrants to what later became the United States came for a better life, and it decimated the people who were already living here.
signit said:
needing public assistance because there aren’t the jobs to support them.
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I am not sure I agree with this, since there seems to be no lack of work that needs doing, but I do agree we have a huge public assistance program, and a great many of them are able to work, but don’t. So much so that I have been jealous at times of those who have better medical coverage and benefits than I have working three low paying jobs.
Seagull said:
I remember a story - where a old person fed birds
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I can picture it, but we are talking about human souls here - people that Jesus has taught us to look into their eyes, and see Him. I believe He has a plan for them that is not one of total disaster.
MonteRCMS said:
A series of photographs of one of the women at the border … taken at her home in Honduras … appears to be of her as a professional model with expensive jewelry.
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Some of them, of course, will not be genuine. Maybe she was tired of working as a high priced call girl. My point is we could ask. There is no guarantee we will get the truth, or maybe no way to investigate, but it seems wrong not to allow them to apply.
 
godisgood - How many billions of the ‘oppressed, poor and huddled masses’ do you want? How much more do you wish to add to the US national debt/over-draft?
 
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guanophore said:
I know, our values in this country have changed. Maybe we need a new plaque for the Lady. We shouldn’t take her down, because she is part of a history that makes us who we are today, but her message is no longer valid.
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We should be focusing on the homeless and disadvantaged that are citizens, and already among us. That is subsidiarity.

If you want to prioritize the homeless in central america, start a non-profit or find an existing one that meets your needs.
 
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MountCarmel said:
godisgood - How many billions of the ‘oppressed, poor and huddled masses’ do you want? How much more do you wish to add to the US national debt/over-draft?
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Your statement is outlandish… no one is proposing that ‘billions’ of people be let in. Absolutely NO ONE.

I’m simply advocating for a Catholic Christian approach to immigration. - which is not what’s going on now.
The US is the wealthiest nation on the planet, has plenty of wealth, more than enough resources to support the current flow of immigrants (capacity is actually higher than today’s immigration numbers). If you look at the number of immigrants, you will likely come to the conclusion that the number of people coming in on an annual basis is reasonable and we should do a more efficient job of ‘processing’ them.

Sounds like you are more interested in going with a financial driven policy first as opposed to morals. Let me ask you this…

The US currently allows about 1M people in legally a year- 600 of which are status changes for people already in the country.

DHS estimates are that approximately 300 new ILLEGAL immigrants come in on an annual basis

The number of immigrants coming in each year started declining in 2008, continue to decline in 2009 and has experience relative stability since.

It appears the current US Pres and his administration has successfully whipped a segment of the population up to borderline lynch mob levels of hysteria based on fact news and fear mongering.

My question to you is how few immigrants would you be satisfied with?

…A nation of immigrants betrays its roots.
 
godisgood - I personally have very little interest in materialism, and recognise that the love of money/wealth can be very spiritually corrosive. Money itself is actually morally neutral - it can be used to good or bad purpose. When referring to the US National Debt, I am just reflecting on the practical issues and problems that throws up for the US and for other countries and individuals alike - if a country is in 'overdraft, then it assumes that when it spends $$$$$$, it is by and large other folks $$$$$$ - all too often, one way or another, denying the poor in other countries. When China loans to the US, it is from money it will not use to lift the fiscal poverty of its own poor.

I am all for Christian love, as expressed in practical concern for those oppressed in other countries - as well as those already oppressed in various ways in ones own country. But do we attempt to eradicate by various means the rotten states of their own governments/dictatorships, so they need not feel the need [mainly economic] to move to the ‘west’? Or do ‘we’, your country, mine, and others, just play ‘open house’?

p.s. My own income is very modest by western standards, and I am very content for that to be so - if I found myself burdened by riches, I would immediately set up a charity trust, into which most of that fiscal wealth would go. I indulge my own charitable pleasure in having a monthly direct debit arrangement with CAFOD - and will be giving an ‘Advent donation’ to the same worthy organisation. Somewhere in the Bible I believe Jesus reflects that there will ‘always be the poor’ - I believe it was a general reflection on the so often fallen nature of humanity.

When your founding fathers made such eloquent speeches as the ‘huddled masses’ one, they had the European poor in mind - those who had cultural and religious {and none] similarities to their own. They still had slaves, or were just beginning to wean themselves from them - mainly because up and coming machinery/industrialisation rendered keeping them less profitable - there are still many integration issues, 100 to 150 years on. The consequences of the ‘Tower of Babel’ live on.
 
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Theo520 said:
We should be focusing on the homeless and disadvantaged that are citizens, and already among us. That is subsidiarity .
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Oh you won’t get an argument from me about this!! I think we should do this instead of funding wars, invasions, covert operations, and meddling in governments all around the world on the basis of "National Security. I think it is crazy we are feeding other people all over the world without feeding our own people.
Theo520 said:
If you want to prioritize the homeless in central america, start a non-profit or find an existing one that meets your needs.
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You seem to be making some kind of assumption about me that is not accurate. I am responding to the fact that these people are on the border, wanting to enter.
godisgood77 said:
no one is proposing that ‘billions’ of people be let in. Absolutely NO ONE.
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You have to admit, if we allowed it, there would be such a stream. That is what it was like when Lady Liberty first had her plaque opened.
godisgood77 said:
we should do a more efficient job of ‘processing’ them.
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I think this is very true. This is why a “wall” seemed absurd to me. We have so much technology that can be used to secure the borders, and process applicants. This administration only wants people from Norway, apparently, and everyone with brown or black skin is from a ****hole country.
godisgood77 said:
…A nation of immigrants betrays its roots.
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It certainly is embarrassing.
 
I know people that live in various parts of Mexico. Family members and very close friends. One is a huge advocate for Central American migrants and his wife is Central American. He has never said a negative word about any migrants before. Even he has stayed this group is different. They are insulting Mexicans and refusing the food offered to them. They are vandalizing and trashing everything. Crimes are being committed. Many of the women have opted to return home because of the way they have been treated in the caravan.

He told me what completely changed his mind about this group was when they were offered the same thing many Mexicans eat every day and didn’t just refuse it but accuses them of treating them like pigs. They are rude and nasty to even the people who have attempted to help them.

So, maybe it’s time to rethink this particular group. Unfortunately they are giving a bad name to all migrants.
 
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After hearing from the people I know in Mexico, I am not at all surprised. She is only one of many who has complained like that. They don’t want beans, rice, noodles, tortillas, or any of the main staples that the people in Mexico live on. They insult them and try to shame them for not providing well enough for them while they expect it all for free. Many of the real refugees are also sick of their behavior. They have said they are embarrassed of them. It really is a bad situation.
 
guanophore said:
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godisgood77:
…A nation of immigrants betrays its roots.
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It certainly is embarrassing.
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Perhaps it ought to be embarrassing when one’s generosity is being taken advantage of by leftist socialists attempting to gain political power by importing masses of immigrants with the promise of lots of free stuff?

 
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