Card. Burke: "Biden is not a Catholic in good standing..."

[HomeschoolDad]

Looking at polls from the past five, ten, twenty years, I think that a small minority of Catholics would be considered “Catholics in good standing” when one looks at issues of birth control, marriage, and believing in the Real Presence.

I couldn’t agree more, but be aware that some people in these forums would accuse you of “judging” and would object that polls mean nothing “because you can’t know unless you personally interview everyone”. I used to fall into the trap of getting sidetracked by these objections, until I finally said “no more!” If there’s one verse of Scripture that everybody, and I do mean everybody, remembers, it is “judge not lest ye be judged”.

Who ever heard of a religion that allowed so many of its adherents to “blow off” doctrines and moral teachings with no correction and no repercussions (denial of sacraments or rites, excommunication in extreme cases, and so on)? Would the Jehovah’s Witnesses tolerate people advocating for blood transfusion? The LDS giving temple recommends to people who drink and smoke? Islam just sitting by silently while its adherents eat pork and drink alcohol? Not hardly. Never heard of such a thing.

It gets discouraging sometimes, but I’m not going to let it run me out of the Church, because she tolerates dissent and disobedience among those who profess to be her faithful.

 

[fide]

As I told before in another thread as a Catholic I don’t feel represented by Democrats or Republicans. Yes, abortion is a very big issue but sometimes I feel that abortion is used to ‘hold as hostage’ the Catholic vote. After all historically Stalin was against abortion too but this fact would not make me think he was a great politician.

Some professional politicians do, I am convinced, intentionally keep some issues as issues - as opposed to actually dealing with and solving the issues - because that keeps some voters in their pockets. The Dems for example keep “victim classes” as block voters in their base. They don’t solve the problems, they keep the issues. As Biden said to the African-American, If you “don’t vote for me, you ain’t Black.” And then he accuses Trump of being the racist!

Trump is not a “professional politician”, thanks be to God. For that reason he is hated by most Dems and many Republicans as well - he, Trump, is not interested in playing by their “professional” rules and standards of duplicity, manipulation, double-speak etc. He has been busy, for example, placing constitutional judges in federal courts and on the Supreme Court who view the Constitution as meaning what it says - not what “we progressives” want it to mean. This is very good news for pro-life Americans. Professional politicians have created and installed “a swamp” in the Capital - professional bureaucrats with whom they can collaborate to help each other maintain their cushy jobs. These “swamp creatures” all hate Trump. He is the outsider, rocking the boat.

I’m praying for “four more years”, and praying that God will find and raise up another such man, for the post-Trump election cycle. America needs renewal - not revolution - not socialist takeover - renewal of the spirit of our beginnings: making America good again, inside.

Yes, power-hunger tyrants are often against abortion - they need boys to grow into men for their armies and police. BUT - Jesus was against abortion, too, for the right reasons.

 

[PaulinVA]

It gets discouraging sometimes, but I’m not going to let it run me out of the Church, because she tolerates dissent and disobedience among those who profess to be her faithful.

It is.

But complaining about our fellow Mass-goers is like going to a hospital with a problem and complaining about all the sick people there. Also, I think some people’s failing are more visible than others.

Catholicism is like Judaism. I think there are “cultural Catholics” who just don’t have the gumption to fully leave.

 

[Victoria33]

As I told before in another thread as a Catholic I don’t feel represented by Democrats or Republicans. Yes, abortion is a very big issue but sometimes I feel that abortion is used to ‘hold as hostage’ the Catholic vote. After all historically Stalin was against abortion too but this fact would not make me think he was a great politician.

Well, the Democrats now, are tied to infanticide. This has been gone through, there is no way I can vote for infanticide or Planned Parenthood with a clear conscience.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Cardinal Burke is not Joe Biden’s Bishop, in fact, he doesn’t have a dioceses anymore.

Only Joe Biden’s Bishop has the authority to prohibit him from receiving Holy Communion.

Cardinal Dolan said that he will not use Sacraments as a whipping tool to get people in line.

I don’t care for Joe Biden, but that’s not the issue. The issue is, who is Joe Biden’s Bishop and what has he said to Joe Biden, which is really none of our business unless Biden makes it public.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

It gets discouraging sometimes, but I’m not going to let it run me out of the Church, because she tolerates dissent and disobedience among those who profess to be her faithful.

It is.

But complaining about our fellow Mass-goers is like going to a hospital with a problem and complaining about all the sick people there. Also, I think some people’s failing are more visible than others.

Catholicism is like Judaism. I think there are “cultural Catholics” who just don’t have the gumption to fully leave.

I would think of it more like going to a hospital with a problem, and having massive numbers of patients there whose own willful behavior has put them in hospital in the first place, with the doctors not insisting that they make the changes in their lives that will keep them out of hospital in the future.

 

[PaulinVA]

would think of it more like going to a hospital with a problem, and having massive numbers of patients there whose own willful behavior has put them in hospital in the first place, with the doctors not insisting that they make the changes in their lives that will keep them out of hospital in the future.

Read that a few times, and, yes, I agree.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Well, the Democrats now, are tied to infanticide. This has been gone through, there is no way I can vote for infanticide or Planned Parenthood with a clear conscience.

And there is no way I can vote for the destruction of America, which I think would be the alternative.

 

[fide]

I don’t care for Joe Biden, but that’s not the issue. The issue is, who is Joe Biden’s Bishop and what has he said to Joe Biden, which is really none of our business unless Biden makes it public.

Biden is a public scandal, injuring and shaming the whole Church! When he makes his support and promotion of anti-Catholic beliefs public, and then professes his “faith” publicly, he is a public contradiction which ought to call for public consequences. This is the “business” of every faithful Catholic in the world, not to mention this country.

As for the laity:

CCC 907 “In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons.”<CIC, can. 212 # 3>

And Card. Burke is an ordained Bishop of the Church:

CCC 888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command.<PO 4; cf. Mk 16:15> They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith “endowed with the authority of Christ.”<LG 25>

 

[YADA]

Did Biden trot out his “Catholic” identity in the debate last night? Yes

Was his religious affiliation asked of him? No

So Joe Biden uses his faith - which he also fails to adhere to in very public ways - to benefit his election chances … As recently as late night …yet CA forum members should refrain from discussing it once again

Biden is the poster child for those who undermine our faith and who leads people, especially young people, away from the faith and into sin.

Biden has a huge public voice which he is using to promote legally murdering children through abortion. He advocates for same sex marriage and even officiated the marriage between two men. His record on stem cells, euthanasia etc all go against the teachings of the Church …his public stances are in defiance of the Church and he loves the photo-op and notoriety of receiving the Eucharist to illustrate he is a Catholic in good standing …which of course he is not.

While many of us are also failing in our duties as Catholics, we are not using a Megaphone to announce our sinfulness nor are we seeking public office (served in office) where we are going to be signing laws that promote these evils …Biden has been voting for evil, enabling evil and actively participating foe 47 years and now is using his faith to seek an even higher public office with a bully pulpit …if necessary threads need to be started every time his promotes his Catholicity

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Cardinal Burke is not Joe Biden’s bishop, and as far as I know is not currently in charge of any diocese. So unless Cardinal Burke is distributing Holy Communion at Mass and Joe Biden gets in his line, then this has zero effect on Biden.

Biden’s own current bishop, Bishop Malooly, has stated that as a matter of policy in his diocese, he’s not going to withhold the sacraments from politicians on the basis of their political views.

A couple of bishops of other dioceses have stated that they will not give Communion to Joe Biden, so presumably he knows that and doesn’t approach the Communion rail if indeed he even is present in those dioceses. With the COVID this year, he’s pretty much stayed at home in his own diocese.

So, Cardinal Burke can have an opinion all day long, but he doesn’t get to decide this one.

 

[fide]

And there is no way I can vote for the destruction of America, which I think would be the alternative.

You think that the alternative to pro-abortion Dems is “the destruction of America”?? You think that progressivism morphing into socialism/pre-communism is not “the destruction of America”? What is your concept of “America”? Does the Constitution have anything to do with “America”? One of “the alternative” Trump’s main concerns is the insertion of Constitutionalist Justices in the courts. He is all about return to American values and justice, as the Constitution prescribes.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

While many of us are also failing in our duties as Catholics, we are not using a Megaphone to announce our sinfulness nor are we seeking public office (served in office) where we are going to be signing laws that promote these evils

Our sins aren’t somehow less sinful because we’re not in the public eye or serving in office.

They’re just less public.

I think we can all feel free to not vote for the guy if we don’t like how he promotes himself as a Catholic, or don’t like that he supports abortion, stumbles over his words, called the President a clown, or wears a vibrating tie. But I’m not going to act like I’m better than him either. For a whole lot of years I was probably way worse than him. And he does go to Mass, pray the Rosary, have Masses said for his family, etc. which is way more than a lot of these so-called “raised Catholic” politicians do.

His self-promotion as a Catholic does have the consequence of making it almost impossible for Kamala Harris to start up with her anti-Catholic bigotry without making the ticket look like fools, so there’s that.

 

[OddBird]

And so no further defense of the unborn is needed? The crime continues; the Democrats promoting it continue, the “Catholic” Democrats promoting it continue…

I’m quite firmly anti-abortion, but as someone who has never once set foot in the US I do find the multiplication of Trump/Biden/can Catholics vote Democrat threads a tad annoying. It has a tendency to take over the usual conversation, in which I’m more interested. I figure it’s an unavoidable part of participating in an English-language forum… but I don’t really feel concerned.

I might create a thread titled “Can real Catholics vote SPP”, though :crazy_face:

 

[Victoria33]

Biden is a public scandal, injuring and shaming the whole Church! When he makes his support and promotion of anti-Catholic beliefs public, and then professes his “faith” publicly, he is a public contradiction which ought to call for public consequences. This is the “business” of every faithful Catholic in the world, not to mention this country.

As for the laity:

If a Politician is National; as Biden and most of these in DC are, then, I welcome the comments of the good Cardinal and others.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

YADA:

While many of us are also failing in our duties as Catholics, we are not using a Megaphone to announce our sinfulness nor are we seeking public office (served in office) where we are going to be signing laws that promote these evils

Our sins aren’t somehow less sinful because we’re not in the public eye or serving in office.

They’re just less public.

True, but private sinners like me, aren’t nearly as able to scandalize large numbers of people, by our sins being known to massive numbers of people, who might be led to believe that they’re not sins after all, or not as sinful as they actually are. Giving scandal is a sin too, and the more people you scandalize, the greater the sin.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

as someone who has never once set foot in the US I do find the multiplication of Trump/Biden/can Catholics vote Democrat threads a tad annoying. It has a tendency to take over the usual conversation

It would be nice if there was a whole subforum called “US 2020 Election” and we could put every one of these 1000 threads about “Trump racism Biden abortion Altman Martin Burke said blablabla” into it so those of us who are tired of it could skip the whole thing.
Sadly, this is the cross we bear. (And it’s fairly small and will be over soon.)

 

[billsherman]

It would be nice if there was a whole subforum called “US 2020 Election”

This is the greatest idea ever written on this forum.

Congratulations! You win the forum.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

And there is no way I can vote for the destruction of America, which I think would be the alternative.

You think that the alternative to pro-abortion Dems is “the destruction of America”?? You think that progressivism morphing into socialism/pre-communism is not “the destruction of America”? What is your concept of “America”? Does the Constitution have anything to do with “America”? One of “the alternative” Trump’s main concerns is the insertion of Constitutionalist Justices in the courts. He is all about return to American values and justice, as the Constitution prescribes.

Trump supporters have their opinions on how the Democrats are going to destroy the nation with little evidence, so I don’t think I need much evidence to hold that Trump is already destroying America. But if you want know how, it is by sowing discord, stoking fear, and undermining all our American institutions, such as the FBI, the Post Office, the CDC, the NIH, Journalism, Academia, Scientists, etc.

 

[fide]

Biden’s own current bishop, Bishop Malooly, has stated that as a matter of policy in his diocese, he’s not going to withhold the sacraments from politicians on the basis of their political views.

as a matter of policy ?

“political views” ?

And you’re all right with this, dear sister?

Catechism:

Respect for the souls of others: scandal
2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”<Mt 18:6; Cf. 1 Cor 8:10-13> Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.<Cf. Mt 7:15>

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.”<Pius XII, Discourse, June 1, 1941> This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,<Cf. Eph 6:4; Col. 3:21> or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!”<Lk 17:1>