Cardinal Bernardin sex abuse?

[FirstFiveEighth]

Church Militant is dangerous as it leads people to a distrust in the Church hierarchy, not a good thing.

What leads people to distrust the clergy is distrustful clergy. How many times have we been deceived by priests, bishops, and cardinals? If they were all trustworthy we wouldn’t be having all these scandals. I don’t know if Cdl Bernardin was guilty or not, but I would certainly like to see it investigated.

I’m not saying all clergy are suspect by any means, but the ol’ “if you disagree with the bishop you are obviously in error and in danger of your soul” is such a tiring tactic to shut down legitimate questions.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Don’t let the MSM corner you into painting the Catholic Clergy with a broad brush, because of the relatively few bad priests.

The MSM makes it seem like a minority of clergy may be good, but the majority are bad and can’t be trusted.

In actuality, it’s the opposite

Jim

 

[Eliza10]

…MSM… can’t be trusted…

What is the MSM? Confused.

Trusting clergy is an important issue.

I became a convert in an (unnamed) diocese that had a very long-time, very liberal, modernist bishop who oversaw many sad changes throughout the diocese over along time. Extensive wreckovations and church and Catholic School closings, for starters. This bishop’s bff was a (also longtime) bishop from a neighboring diocese, who was unsurprisingly convicted of long-term homo abuse recently, just before his hasty retirement. (I think the consequences were just the good people of the diocese who had to make the payouts). There were rainbow masses and his highpoint was a woman in sort-of vestments “consecrating” and holding up in the host that made national news.

Also, no priest in the whole diocese for the years I was there after converting EVER ONCE spoke ANYTHING about chastity, contraception or abortion - not once, and I never missed a Sunday Mass. Raising my son as a single Mom, this lack felt like an AFFRONT, actually. The clergy failed in a big way in that.

Coming from an evangelical Protestant Bible-based background (my own church at the time was run by local ex-Catholics), how I could see the local Catholic Church was run raised a LOT of red flags for me. MUCH lack in accountability& transparency for bishop and priests was glaring to me - that can’t be good, considering human nature. On top of that, they were trying so hard to be Protestant-like, and how ridiculous is that? Only Protestants do Protestant right! Truly, Catholics can only be a ridiculously poor imitation of Protestant.

My view of the local Catholics was that they were folk who were immensely rich, but acted like and believed they were but paupers.

However, the Masses on EWTN were a beacon to me, and also their programing and also websites including Catholic Answers helped me see what the Church truly is: the Truth, the whole deposit of Faith, and that made me Catholic.

But I not only saw problems in my local diocese, I saw it was happening in the Church in the country and the world. Particularly shocking to me was the USCCB conferences that began being aired when I first was converted and I was wondering how the church was run. That first televised conference was disconcerting for me. So deflating. I had a vision/general idea of what a bishops conference could and should be for shepherding God’s people, and this was so, so far, far short of that.

Which gets back to what you said here, Jim, about trusting or distrusting clergy. I think there is another choice: withholding trust - until you see reason to increase trust. As soon as the priest or bishop demonstrates actual teaching of the faith (in matters that really matter to the poor starving people of today), I don’t extend the red carpet of trust. I don’t mistrust (which is like projecting things such as bad motives on a person where none have been truly shown), but I don’t truly trust. I wait. Meanwhile, I trust in the Lord God, and in His promise that the Holy Spirit will be with the Catholic Church until the end of time.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Don’t let the MSM corner you into painting the Catholic Clergy with a broad brush, because of the relatively few bad priests.

The MSM makes it seem like a minority of clergy may be good, but the majority are bad and can’t be trusted.

In actuality, it’s the opposite

Jim

I may have been unclear in my post but I by no means believe that even a slim majority of clergy are “bad”. I agree that many times media tries to foist their image and agenda onto the clergy and the church which distorts the picture. So yes I agree that the “bad” clergy are a (vocal) minority. I personally have never had a problem with any parish priest or bishop of my diocese in any location I have lived (granted many of these were all the same diocese). They were all very good.

That said if a priest or bishop says or does something that clearly clashes with or contradicts church teaching or doctrine, or encourages unorthodox practice through explicit or implicit statements and actions, then I believe a layman should be able to call out or question this clergyman without being scolded for having the audacity to question a clergyman. In fact I would say it is the duty of the laity to do so, especially when the clergy is unwilling to police its own, such as past sex abuse scandals that we keep finding out more about. And the church officially agrees, seeing how it has set up a council of laymen who make determinations in sex-abuse cases after they are reported to the police in this country.

There is another thread in this very sub-forum where a Catholic Bishop is openly promoting homosexuality by celebrating “pride” at mass and projecting symbols of that lifestyle onto the crucifix. That is a bishop whose statements I will take with a massive dose of salt.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MSM = Main Stream Media and I’m referring to the US Media.

Keep in mind that your experience in the Church doesn’t equal everyone’s.

You might want to access your political ideology attachments where you see liberal and conservative in different lights.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Younger Catholics and new converts probably don’t remember when Cardinal Bernardin was fighting his own legal battles after being accused of sexual abuse by a homosexual.

The began the media’s accusations against the Church. The accuser’s own father came out against his own son, telling the world that he is a liar and can’t be trusted.

Sure enough, the accuser finally admitted to the media that he had fabricated the accusations. and the charges were dropped. Actually it was proven to the lad that he had never been in the same place as Bernardin during the years the accuser claimed.

Added to this was the fact that the Cardinal was battling cancer which eventually killed him.

Let the good man rest in peace!

Jim

 

[Eliza10]

Keep in mind that your experience in the Church doesn’t equal everyone’s.
Jim

I am well aware my experience does not equal other’s, and visa versa. I am not a cradle Catholic nor do I have any Catholic relatives or ancestors I know of. I come from a deeply Protestant background and it’s been a long immersion in a different culture.

One thing that a Protestant colleague related to me when I was converting was her trip with a priest and other Catholics to the Holy Land. She said, “I wan’t like those Catholics who considered their priest some kind of godlike person who could do not wrong. I talked to him like a regular person.”

Newbie me had not seen Catholics like that so i didn’t know how to respond to that. I would not treat a priest as godlike! Later, I came to know reverent respect for the priesthood. But also I encountered what she encountered (which seems to be culturally-inherited) It gets taken advantage of!. This phenomena, added to a lack of accountability, can go very wrong places.And it’s a supporting player in the sex abuse scandal.

But my experience IS very relatable to converts who were once devoted Evangelical Protestants.

We are not fans of aspects of liturgy that are imitation-protestantism, and we have no heart for 50’s-70’s liturgical favorite folk hymns. But those who grew up with it, and associate happy memories with it, are aghast at any criticism of the music. It’s like the only people who can love it are those that grew up with it. Not a newcomer. Not loving this is not welcome. It’s one reason why I am increasingly drawn to the Latin Mass. There are no fun liturgical additions that only those who were there when they were implemented and grew fond of it could love, but don’t make sense to a Catholic convert. Like the take-home challis - ugh! I respect that those who love it are enjoying their own special private cherished rite that “everyone else” likes. I respect that they grew that affection. But, it doesn’t speak to me because as a newcomer I need to see the depth of meaning in it, and I don’t find it.

So you can see I am quite aware that my experience as a convert does not match that of many cradle Catholics. I respect these things, I just don’t like them, while being aware that often my opinions are not popular, or welcome. In fact they can be instantly compartmentalized into predetermined compartments. So normally I tolerate and say nothing (having got the memo - “your type of opinion doesn’t count”). Just saying the truth as I experience it.

You also wrote:

You might want to access your political ideology attachments where you see liberal and conservative in different lights.
Jim

Now I am really confused. What does this mean? I am not a political person, and I didn’t talk about politics. Are you confusing me with someone else?

 

[Eliza10]

Younger Catholics and new converts probably don’t remember when Cardinal Bernardin was fighting his own legal battles after being accused of sexual abuse by a homosexual.

The began the media’s accusations against the Church. The accuser’s own father came out against his own son, telling the world that he is a liar and can’t be trusted.

Sure enough, the accuser finally admitted to the media that he had fabricated the accusations. and the charges were dropped. Actually it was proven to the lad that he had never been in the same place as Bernardin during the years the accuser claimed.

Added to this was the fact that the Cardinal was battling cancer which eventually killed him.

Let the good man rest in peace!

Jim

You say good man, but recent event reported about Bernardin are highly credible and do NOT point to a good man. You clearly did not read these reports.

What I have seen over and over again is that people DON’T WANT TO KNOW about this. A bishop, like a priest, is a father-shepherd. If a real father molests a family member, siblings who did not have this experience do NOT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT. They throw the abused sibling under the bus. They want to believe that their father, even if passed, is the same great guy they remember him to be, and to suggest he was other than fatherly is like their being an orphan, and they aren’t having it. They will be loyal to THEIR memory. And abused persons are easier to ignore than those with important positions, like father, priest of bishop. That’s the reality in all abuse cases. People like James Grimes just aren’t half as impressive as the bishop in the beautiful robes and all the accolades. Not.even.close.

But the fact is a bad bishop does not make the church any less of the true Bride of Christ.

And that Bernadine lied to cover-up and protect abusers (like his best buddy McCarrick) is indisputable. Someone needs to do it to get the cancer out of the church.