Cardinal Burke says statement from Pope Francis defending Catholic teaching is ‘long overdue’

  • Thread starter Thread starter Justin_Swanton
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J_Peterson said:
In your analogy, St. Peter sided with those who wanted to keep things the same (circumcision and adhearance to the law of Moses) and St. Paul advocated a change to make it easier for the Gentiles. I’m not sure that’s the point you wanted to make though.
Click to expand...
You are wrong. St Peter wasn’t “siding” with anyone but failed to state what he KNEW the position to be, something God had already told him. Which is why Cardinal Burke right to say the Poe should SPEAK openly and clearly. The Pope doesn’t say that church teaching should change but he never reiterates it clearly either. From your statement here, do you compare marriage & divorce and homosexuality to be at par with the law on circumcision and Moses that was part of the old covenant?:confused:
 
Megan7 said:
“I suspect the book will follow the reasoning of our Pope Emeritus.
20 years ago the document below was a response to liberal German bishops who publicly stated that divorced and remarried Catholics could follow their consciences in deciding whether to take Communion.”
————-
Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith
Concerning Some Objections To The Church’s Teaching On The Reception Of Holy Communion By Divorced And Remarried Members Of The Faithful.
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19980101_ratzinger-comm-divorced_en.html
Click to expand...
Megan,
I suspect you are pulling this information from reading the authorized previews of the book, and not that you have personally read it yourself.

I would be interested in who is making the statement I posted above. Also interesting is the fact that while the author(s) love to quote Ratzinger as being in objection, based on his encyclical, have they taken into account footnote #4 that was added to the above document during his papacy? It shows another side of Benedict’s “reasoning.” I would love to know if Burke, et al, addressed this in their book.

[4] During the meeting with clergy in the Diocese of Aosta, which took place 25 July 2005, Pope Benedict XVI spoke of this difficult question: "those who were married in the Church for the sake of tradition but were not truly believers, and who later find themselves in a new and invalid marriage and subsequently convert, discover faith and feel excluded from the Sacrament, are in a particularly painful situation. This really is a cause of great suffering and when I was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, I invited various Bishops’ Conferences and experts to study this problem: a sacrament celebrated without faith.

Whether, in fact, a moment of invalidity could be discovered here because the Sacrament was found to be lacking a fundamental dimension, I do not dare to say. I personally thought so, but from the discussions we had I realized that it is a highly complex problem and ought to be studied further. But given these people’s painful plight, it must be studied further."
 
One_point said:
You are wrong. St Peter wasn’t “siding” with anyone but failed to state what he KNEW the position to be, something God had already told him. Which is why Cardinal Burke right to say the Poe should SPEAK openly and clearly. The Pope doesn’t say that church teaching should change but he never reiterates it clearly either. From your statement here, do you compare marriage & divorce and homosexuality to be at par with the law on circumcision and Moses that was part of the old covenant?:confused:
Click to expand...
Those are issues that are dividing the Chruch right now so yes I do think they are at least analogous.

As far as Cardinal Burke’s comments, I believe Pope Francis is saying exactly what he wants to be saying in exactly the way he wants to say it. He never seems to clarify his words or apologize so I assume I can take him at his word. There’s no need to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
 
seagal said:
Fr. Robert Barron has excellent advice for those of us trying to make sense of the mid-term document: “Take a deep breath”.

In his opinion piece “Having patience for the sausage-making synod”
In other words [sign]KEEP CALM AND CATHOLIC ON[/sign]
Click to expand...
If the synod is making sausage, what part of the sausage is Voice of the Faithful? Ugh! I don’t think I will ever eat sausage again!

As to the Holy Father, if we have learned nothing else, it is that he is his own man. He does what he deems best, including letting the Synod run itself. I do not look for him to intervene over media spin, nor do I think it would accomplish anything. The media is not going to change.
 
J_Peterson said:
Those are issues that are dividing the Chruch right now so yes I do think they are at least analogous.

As far as Cardinal Burke’s comments, I believe Pope Francis is saying exactly what he wants to be saying in exactly the way he wants to say it. He never seems to clarify his words or apologize so I assume I can take him at his word. There’s no need to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
Click to expand...
they are not analogous. the circumcision and mosaic law was NOT part of the new covenant. the teaching on sex and marriage is TIMELESS. comparing the two makes no sense. being “of the past” and “new” makes no difference to Catholicism. being part of the deposit of faith or not is what makes the difference. so you are comparing apples and unicorns.
 
Megan7 said:
Hi TIGG:)

You can order Cardinal Raymond Burke’s book from Amazon right now. ^^^^

Thank you for your post.

God bless you:)
Click to expand...
Hi Megan…yes I did order it a while back…am eagerly awaiting its arrival so, in typical fashion, I can hi-light every other page, underline significant truths and write in the margins! 😃

It will be a welcome relief from some of the armchair theology of the laity that is expressed on these pages. :rolleyes:

KEEP THE FAITH!
 
One_point said:
My question: WHY are they discussing settled matters AT ALL? Is our faith something to be reviewed every 50 years or so? This is completely unnecessary.

With respect, I am beginning to completely despair with this papacy of Pope Francis and deeply regret the day when Pope Benedict decidd to reseign. Pope Francis reminds me of Pope Honorius I. He did not teach heresy but his failure to speak the truth clearly to avod causing offence caused heresy to spread through the church and cause so many problems. I am with Cardinal Burke: Pope Francis please speak the faith clearly, because to many faithful it looks like you are more scared of offending the world than of heresy.:confused: And to those attacking Cardinal Burke, remember St. Paul plainly rebuked St. Peter to his face when St. Peter was also passively spreading the heresy of judaizers through fear of offendeing its proponents.

Lord have mercy!!!
Click to expand...
Pope Francis is on record in his support of Benedict’s interpretation of Vatican II as being fundamentally formed and constrained by an “hermeneutic of continuity”. This fact is central to any analysis of the framework of this synod.

Our pope never fails to remind us that our religion is born of certain truths that are at their core extremely radical. He never tires of telling his flock that moving toward Christ means stepping out of our comfort zones. Rather than heretical, I find this pope to be inspirational.
 
McCall1981 said:
I agree with all of this, except I don’t think the Pope will respond.

God bless Card Burke.
Click to expand...
Why not? Shouldn’t the Vicar of Christ give us guidance and make the Church’s teaching clear especially when a cardinal requested it on our behalf?

Isn’t it the Vicar of Christ’s responsibility to re-clarify the Church’s teaching when people are confused? If the Pope does not clarify, who could?

I have faith in our Pope to do the necessary thing to guide us.
 
PTL said:
Why not? Shouldn’t the Vicar of Christ give us guidance and make the Church’s teaching clear especially when a cardinal requested it on our behalf?

Isn’t it the Vicar of Christ’s responsibility to re-clarify the Church’s teaching when people are confused? If the Pope does not clarify, who could?

I have faith in our Pope to do the necessary thing to guide us.
Click to expand...
Oh, I absolutely think he should do it, and needs to do it. I just don’t think (or have faith) that he actually will.
 
McCall1981 said:
Oh, I absolutely think he should do it, and needs to do it. I just don’t think (or have faith) that he actually will.
Click to expand...
We’ll see. Now with Cardinal Dolan also said we need explicit teaching, maybe the Pope will.
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22927&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CatholicWorldNewsFeatureStories+%28Catholic+World+News+%28on+CatholicCulture.org%29%29

I cannot imagine the Pope ignores his flock’s need of being taught.
 
PTL said:
We’ll see. Now with Cardinal Dolan also said we need explicit teaching, maybe the Pope will.

I cannot imagine the Pope ignores his flock’s need of being taught.
Click to expand...
He isn’t! H hasn’t been. He is allowing the synod a free hand for a reason.
 
PTL said:
What reason? He may allow free discussion, but after all he is the one who has to claim the doctrine.
Click to expand...
I found this:
“You have to say all that which in the Lord you feel you have to say; without human respect, without timidity. And, at the same time, you must listen with humility and accept with an open heart what your brothers say. Synodality is exercised with these two attitudes.”
Such an approach returns the church to its ancient roots, in which the world’s bishops are again meaningful participants in establishing church teachings. It portends, over time, real movement on the searching questions of remarriage after divorce, birth control and acceptance of gay people.
But make no mistake; the biggest change has already occurred: A modern pope has told the bishops, and the world, that he trusts them to sense the Holy Spirit and to say what they hear the Spirit whispering - no matter where it leads.
Click to expand...
newsday.com/opinion/oped/what-makes-pope-francis-extraordinary-synod-so-extraordinary-nicholas-cafardi-1.9501361

I will try and find more fully his statement. He wants the Holy Spirit to work through the group of these diverse and holy men and believes a free hand is the best way to accomplish that goal. It makes sense to me.
 
pnewton said:
I found this:

newsday.com/opinion/oped/what-makes-pope-francis-extraordinary-synod-so-extraordinary-nicholas-cafardi-1.9501361

I will try and find more fully his statement. He wants the Holy Spirit to work through the group of these diverse and holy men and believes a free hand is the best way to accomplish that goal. It makes sense to me.
Click to expand...
Yes. I think the Pope actually wants to ignite passion and fire in the hearts of the Bishops and the rest of the Church. Nothing wakes religious people up from their complacency faster than the threat of religious oppression or heresy.

Personal story: A leadership consultant once spoke to me about an employee who would submit a report to his boss. The boss would ask him the next day, is this the best the report can be? The employee would revise the report and resubmit. The next day, the boss would ask the same thing. This went on for a few rounds. Finally, after the final time, the employee asked his boss “can you please tell me where I should improve, I’ve given it by best.”

The Boss then replied with, “I don’t know. I’ve never read the report or the previous versions. I just want to make sure you did the best you can on this report. Now, I will read it”

Point of this story: I think that’s what the Pope is doing here. He’s letting the Bishops really chew on this and provide the best options possible. Only with passionate debate, etc. will they come up with an approach which is orthodox, yet can improve the situation.
 
phil19034 said:
Yes. I think the Pope actually wants to ignite passion and fire in the hearts of the Bishops and the rest of the Church. Nothing wakes religious people up from their complacency faster than the threat of religious oppression or heresy.

Personal story: A leadership consultant once spoke to me about an employee who would submit a report to his boss. The boss would ask him the next day, is this the best the report can be? The employee would revise the report and resubmit. The next day, the boss would ask the same thing. This went on for a few rounds. Finally, after the final time, the employee asked his boss “can you please tell me where I should improve, I’ve given it by best.”

The Boss then replied with, “I don’t know. I’ve never read the report or the previous versions. I just want to make sure you did the best you can on this report. Now, I will read it”

Point of this story: I think that’s what the Pope is doing here. He’s letting the Bishops really chew on this and provide the best options possible. Only with passionate debate, etc. will they come up with an approach which is orthodox, yet can improve the situation.
Click to expand...
That is a good story, but the Church’s situation is different. The boss in the story was dealing with a report, he could encourage the employee to do his best then read the report. The Church’s situation is heresy and scandals are being created. It is necessary like Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Dolan said, there is a necessity to reaffirm the doctrine. Unless the Pope plans to change the doctrine in 2015 and let heresy go out to create a public acceptance, then it is a different story.
 
PTL said:
That is a good story, but the Church’s situation is different. The boss in the story was dealing with a report, he could encourage the employee to do his best then read the report. The Church’s situation is heresy and scandals are being created. It is necessary like Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Dolan said, there is a necessity to reaffirm the doctrine. Unless the Pope plans to change the doctrine in 2015 and let heresy go out to create a public acceptance, then it is a different story.
Click to expand...
You’ll like this.

Card Dolan on the African Bishops:

"We in the Church in Europe, the Church in North America, we suffer sometimes from a lethargy, don’t we? Not Africa! … The bishops of Africa are prophetic in reminding us that the role of the Church is to transform the culture, not to be transformed by the culture. …

I’m afraid sometimes we in the West might say, “Oh, I guess we ought to dilute things, I guess we ought to capitulate, it’s obvious this teaching’s being rejected, oh my Lord, we’re not popular.” And the Africans say, “Well, you know what? We’re not supposed to be. What we’re supposed to do is propose the truth and invite people by the love and the joy of our lives to embrace the truth. And take it from us, brothers, it works.”

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3437/cardinals_kasper_and_dolan_and_the_african_bishops.aspx
 
PTL said:
That is a good story, but the Church’s situation is different. The boss in the story was dealing with a report, he could encourage the employee to do his best then read the report. The Church’s situation is heresy and scandals are being created. It is necessary like Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Dolan said, there is a necessity to reaffirm the doctrine. Unless the Pope plans to change the doctrine in 2015 and let heresy go out to create a public acceptance, then it is a different story.
Click to expand...
I think we’re getting a glimpse into the messy way Church documents and discipline are created. Its from trying to reconcile these “extremes” that genius theology can be born…
 
McCall1981 said:
You’ll like this.

Card Dolan on the African Bishops:

"We in the Church in Europe, the Church in North America, we suffer sometimes from a lethargy, don’t we? Not Africa! … The bishops of Africa are prophetic in reminding us that the role of the Church is to transform the culture, not to be transformed by the culture. …

I’m afraid sometimes we in the West might say, “Oh, I guess we ought to dilute things, I guess we ought to capitulate, it’s obvious this teaching’s being rejected, oh my Lord, we’re not popular.” And the Africans say, “Well, you know what? We’re not supposed to be. What we’re supposed to do is propose the truth and invite people by the love and the joy of our lives to embrace the truth. And take it from us, brothers, it works.”

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3437/cardinals_kasper_and_dolan_and_the_african_bishops.aspx
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this. I especially like this sentence from Dolan.
The bishops of Africa are prophetic in reminding us that the role of the Church is to transform the culture, not to be transformed by the culture. …
Click to expand...
As for Kasper, is he kidding? He basically tells the African bishops to shut up. Isn’t that racist?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top