Cardinal confirms gay teachers will not face ban

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Norwich:
And here was me under the mistaken immpression Mathew was a tax collector. Silly me!
No mistaken, he *was *a tax collector. However, he chose to repent of his sinful ways and become a follower Jesus in his commision to live and spread the Gospel. Matthew could just as easily remained a tax collector if this was God’s will for him, and still teach and preach the Gospel (as is the call of all religious and laity). A decision to repent and turn from sin is the crucial difference, silly you! Try again?
 
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Repented, not continuing and claiming it is godly.
Oh, I see, so if he repents he can carry on as normal? I assume therefore that if he is celebate he has repented, and, if he has repented he can teach children, or even be a priest, his homosexuality no longer is an issue!!! But, how do you know he’s not celebate, how do you know what his (or her) private life is? or are you claiming to play God by knowing his or her repentance?

Therein lays your problem, you don’t know, you can’t know and yet you judge, all are guilty by association, all are condemned through no fault of their own, by an accident of birth, like male pattern baldness or skin colour yet you still judge and condemn.

Very christian I’m sure!
 
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Norwich:
Oh, I see, so if he repents he can carry on as normal? I assume therefore that if he is celebate he has repented, and, if he has repented he can teach children, or even be a priest, his homosexuality no longer is an issue!!! But, how do you know he’s not celebate, how do you know what his (or her) private life is? or are you claiming to play God by knowing his or her repentance?

Therein lays your problem, you don’t know, you can’t know and yet you judge, all are guilty by association, all are condemned through no fault of their own, by an accident of birth, like male pattern baldness or skin colour yet you still judge and condemn.

Very christian I’m sure!
So Norwich - what do we do with the Priests who have fallen?
 
Norwich said:
Oh, I see, so if he repents he can carry on as normal? I assume therefore that if he is celebate he has repented, and, if he has repented he can teach children, or even be a priest, his homosexuality no longer is an issue!!! But, how do you know he’s not celebate, how do you know what his (or her) private life is? or are you claiming to play God by knowing his or her repentance?

Therein lays your problem, you don’t know, you can’t know and yet you judge, all are guilty by association, all are condemned through no fault of their own, by an accident of birth, like male pattern baldness or skin colour yet you still judge and condemn.

Very christian I’m sure!

Depends on what you consider “normal”. Repentance from serious sin and becoming a “new man” in Christ is an interior conversion that often has a marked beginning. Beyond the initial decision to repent of serious sin, there often entails a process of reforming one’s former sinful habits (lifestyle, thoughts, physical, etc) to bring one into conformity with life in Christ. So you should not assume anything, move beyond superficial analogies, but be reminded that you can know a tree by the fruit it bears.
 
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Norwich:
Oh, I see, so if he repents he can carry on as normal? I assume therefore that if he is celebate he has repented, and, if he has repented he can teach children, or even be a priest, his homosexuality no longer is an issue!!! But, how do you know he’s not celebate, how do you know what his (or her) private life is? or are you claiming to play God by knowing his or her repentance?

Therein lays your problem, you don’t know, you can’t know and yet you judge, all are guilty by association, all are condemned through no fault of their own, by an accident of birth, like male pattern baldness or skin colour yet you still judge and condemn.

Very christian I’m sure!
This piece is about a Cardinal saying publicly that two “gay” people can live a life of public sin and still teach in a Catholic school. I saw noting about repentence or submission to the will of God.
 
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And this man is a cardinal?
There was some controversy surrounding this man when he was about to be raised to the cardinalate. He made some pro-homosexual, pro-contraception comments and maybe some other dissenting comments. Because of this, he was made to make this profession of faith which specifically included an oath to uphold the Church teaching on the immorality of the homosexual act. Apparently he has not been faithful to this oath:

scmo.org.uk/_titles/view.asp?id=173
2. Further Profession of Faith of Cardinal Designate Keith Patrick O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, made in St Mary’s Cathedral Edinburgh on Tuesday 7th October 2003.
Furthermore, I having been called to be Cardinal by pope John Paul II, state that I firmly hold and maintain all and everything taught by the Holy Catholic Church concerning faith and morals, whether solemnly defined or asserted as part of her ordinary Magisterium, especially those doctrines touching the mystery of the Church as the Body of Christ, the Sacraments, the sacrifice of the Mass and the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.

I further state that I accept and intend to defend the law on ecclesiastical celibacy as it is proposed by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church; I accept and promise to defend the ecclesiastical teaching about the immorality of the homosexual act; I accept and promise to promulgate always and everywhere what the Church’s Magisterium teaches on contraception. So help me God and these Holy Scriptures which I touch with my hand.
 
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tuopaolo:
There was some controversy surrounding this man when he was about to be raised to the cardinalate. He made some pro-homosexual, pro-contraception comments and maybe some other dissenting comments. Because of this, he was made to make this profession of faith which specifically included an oath to uphold the Church teaching on the immorality of the homosexual act. Apparently he has not been faithful to this oath:

scmo.org.uk/_titles/view.asp?id=173
2. Further Profession of Faith of Cardinal Designate Keith Patrick O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, made in St Mary’s Cathedral Edinburgh on Tuesday 7th October 2003.
Furthermore, I having been called to be Cardinal by pope John Paul II, state that I firmly hold and maintain all and everything taught by the Holy Catholic Church concerning faith and morals, whether solemnly defined or asserted as part of her ordinary Magisterium, especially those doctrines touching the mystery of the Church as the Body of Christ, the Sacraments, the sacrifice of the Mass and the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.

I further state that I accept and intend to defend the law on ecclesiastical celibacy as it is proposed by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church; I accept and promise to defend the ecclesiastical teaching about the immorality of the homosexual act; I accept and promise to promulgate always and everywhere what the Church’s Magisterium teaches on contraception. So help me God and these Holy Scriptures which I touch with my hand.
I remember, now. Old “habits” die hard.
 
Norwich,
Have you never heard of “Fraternal Correction?” They are one of the fruits of Charity. CCC 1829.
As for homosexuality, CCC # 2357 states, in part, that Sacred Scripture presents homosexuao acts as acts of grave depravity and tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”
CCC 2358 says, in part, that those with "homosexual tendencies …] must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivitry.

CCC 2359 states, in part, “Homesexual persons are called to chastity.”

Cardinal O’Brien said: “If there happens to be a gay teacher and he does happen to be living with a partner, that’s their personal, private life. I don’t see it as a problem.”

The cardinal should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. He is the primary teacher of the Catholic Faith for Scotland and, as such, must follow Catholic teaching. He cannot make it up as he goes along.
The homosexual teacher must be reqired to live a chaste life in order to continue in Catholic employment, and he must be counseled.

So you see, it’s not about judgementalism or “homophobia,” or anything like that. It’s straightforward Catholic teaching, which the cardinal should be darned well aware of.
 
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Strider:
Norwich,
Have you never heard of “Fraternal Correction?” They are one of the fruits of Charity. CCC 1829.
As for homosexuality, CCC # 2357 states, in part, that Sacred Scripture presents homosexuao acts as acts of grave depravity and tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”
CCC 2358 says, in part, that those with "homosexual tendencies …] must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivitry.

CCC 2359 states, in part, “Homesexual persons are called to chastity.”

Cardinal O’Brien said: “If there happens to be a gay teacher and he does happen to be living with a partner, that’s their personal, private life. I don’t see it as a problem.”

The cardinal should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. He is the primary teacher of the Catholic Faith for Scotland and, as such, must follow Catholic teaching. He cannot make it up as he goes along.
The homosexual teacher must be reqired to live a chaste life in order to continue in Catholic employment, and he must be counseled.

So you see, it’s not about judgementalism or “homophobia,” or anything like that. It’s straightforward Catholic teaching, which the cardinal should be darned well aware of.
Very true, but none of that fits the secular agenda that many want upheld as dogma.
 
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Norwich:
Yes, he apparently looks for what’s good in people and not, as you lot seem to do, look for what you perceive to be bad.
You know it takes all of my strength to be tolerant of people such as yourself, who obviously have no concept of the truth or any regards for what God teaches us. Good!?!?!, since when is sexuality placed above God good, since when is a sexuality not in accordance to the creation account and God’s plan for marriage okay, since when is something condemed by God okay??? You know it may seem fashionable and tolerant to you to look to new age ideals just baised on false logic and unrealistic ideology to accept others deviancy, but that does not make it logically or religiously relivant in the least. Homosexuals, in case you haven’t noticed, are far more promiscuous, far more mentally illed, far more anti and less monogomous, and far more radical in deviant ideologies then any heterosexual group. So let me ask you this, why do God’s laws mean nothing to you, can you actually be so hard hearted to his laws and embrace what you want in accordance to your own selfishness? Let me ask you this, lying is wrong is it not? stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, hurting anyone in any context is wrong, right? So wrong in fact they do not come without harsh consequence, in other words they are not too good for our well being as a people and a society. We don’t even need the bible to come to this conclusion. Now take a look at the bible, which of course is the inaffalible word of God, everyone of these wrongs are condemed and considered a sin. They are indeed comanded by God as so, and as so harmful and are to be avoided. so then we can determine God is pretty much right in all this natural law, and we can understand this even without believing in him. So when it comes to homosexuality, it’s the same thing, it’s condemed for a reason! Not out of fear or ignorance, but out of the violative and harmful nature of homosexuality, simple as that.

groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/a2dcbeae8cf35166/eb08acdfd12b5326#eb08acdfd12b5326
I had a lot of gay friends, many of them now dead from AIDS who worked selflessly on behalf of others in the gay and heterosexual community who also had AIDS.
Well guess what, I’ve been around numerous homosexual activists, I know the only goals behind those who work for tolerance and other ****, are those with the most radical and misinformed garbage. The whole sum of the this movement is based on deviant liberal values, with the intent of nothing more then bringing everything down to their level, destroying morals and values along the way…

groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/070aa3240b410b01/37fbbde8e548edf8#37fbbde8e548edf8

groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/a34fff10939dd803/8686a43c0a8154f9#8686a43c0a8154f9

groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/f9f86ecccd220022/d25c1ed896c12c46#d25c1ed896c12c46
I’m not Gay. I had gay teachers at school, not in those days openly, it was illegal, but gay non the less, I don’t know any of my old school friends who turned out gay.
groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/a6d7423c658f567c/962113094df23854#962113094df23854

groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/2921357b80329104/0ed1fbfe95c0fd45#0ed1fbfe95c0fd45

groups-beta.google.com/group/The-Truth-About-Homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/bb0e91b700056bae/2d44dedf24caa074#2d44dedf24caa074
 
The schools where my kids went had gay teachers, most of them incedentaly were very good teachers, my kids aren’t gay.
So, alcoholics and pedophiles (inclusive ones) can do the exact same thing, they can mimick ideal characteristics so well, but that does nothing but mask their overlying deviancy and inmorality…
I have a feeling that the evil lies not in the gay community around us but in the minds of those who classify, denegrate and prejudice those around them into thinking others of Gods people are lesser than themselves.
No it is in all reality that people like you are at the root of what this evil is, Instead of grasping common sense and the truth of God, you are the heimechulai, the ones who will try to embrace the fashions of this world over the truth of God, and force it on false ideology and fabricated information. We need to stop and think about God’s expectations and comands for us, and not let anything wordly or watered down get in the way of that!
 
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BigPaulie:
Dear Norwich, In your opinion, why did God destroy the Old Testament cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Please Reply, BigPaulie
That is something for starters, once you have reached that level you will know it as well.
God destroyed Sodonm and Gomorrah because the people there used to rape their neigbours guests instead of being hospitable.

Werner
 
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Werner:
That is something for starters, once you have reached that level you will know it as well.
God destroyed Sodonm and Gomorrah because the people there used to rape their neigbours guests instead of being hospitable.

Werner
Rubbish. They wanted males, not females. The hospitality fiction is a concoction of the “gay” left.
 
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Rubbish. They wanted males, not females. The hospitality fiction is a concoction of the “gay” left.
The hospitality “fiction” is old Jewish tradition. Why are you constantly talking about things you don’t know and/or don’t understand?
Methinks the Knownothings are about to come back!

Werner
 
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Werner:
The hospitality “fiction” is old Jewish tradition. Why are you constantly talking about things you don’t know and/or don’t understand?
Methinks the Knownothings are about to come back!

Werner
Because you state it, that makes it fact? Your agenda is transparent. I accept the full Truth and I do not make the moral law plastic.

The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire “because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord” (Gen. 19:13).

Throughout history, Jewish and Christian scholars have recognized that one of the chief sins involved in God’s destruction of Sodom was its people’s homosexual behavior. But today, certain homosexual activists promote the idea that the sin of Sodom was merely a lack of hospitality. Although inhospitality is a sin, it is clearly the homosexual behavior of the Sodomites that is singled out for special criticism in the account of their city’s destruction. We must look to Scripture’s own interpretation of the sin of Sodom.

Jude 7 records that Sodom and Gomorrah “acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust.” Ezekiel says that Sodom committed “abominable things” (Ezek. 16:50), which could refer to homosexual and heterosexual acts of sin. Lot even offered his two virgin daughters in place of his guests, but the men of Sodom rejected the offer, preferring homosexual sex over heterosexual sex (Gen. 19:8–9). Ezekiel does allude to a lack of hospitality in saying that Sodom “did not aid the poor and needy” (Ezek. 16:49). So homosexual acts and a lack of hospitality both contributed to the destruction of Sodom, with the former being the far greater sin, the “abominable thing” that set off God’s wrath.

But the Sodom incident is not the only time the Old Testament deals with homosexuality. An explicit condemnation is found in the book of Leviticus: “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. . . . If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them” (Lev. 18:22, 20:13).
catholic.com/library/homosexuality.asp
 
And just because you state it, that makes it fact? Your agenda is transparent. I accept the full Truth and I do not make the moral law plastic.
Just talk to a Rabbi and ask him about the sin of Sodom!

Werner
 
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Werner:
And just because you state it, that makes it fact? Your agenda is transparent. I accept the full Truth and I do not make the moral law plastic.
Just talk to a Rabbi and ask him about the sin of Sodom!

Werner
Why don’t you speak with a devout Catholic priest who binds himself to the barque of Peter?
 
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Why don’t you speak with a devout Catholic priest who binds himself to the barque of Peter?
Because i said what you called the “hospitality myth” is an old Jewish tradition of teaching.
You didn’t believe me, so asking a Rabbi sounds logical to me.
That means if you are interested in the truth instead of your obvious agenda!

Werner
 
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Werner:
Because i said what you called the “hospitality myth” is an old Jewish tradition of teaching.
You didn’t believe me, so asking a Rabbi sounds logical to me.
That means if you are interested in the truth instead of your obvious agenda!

Werner
My agenda is to be faithful to Christ’s Church. Any Rabbi you may choose to consult may not agree with the Church. Why would I seek his counsel? I accept what the Church teaches, not homosexual agit prop.

Please see post #53.
 
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