Cardinal Dolan: don't expect "dramatic change" on Communion for divorced and remarried

[Colorad007]

Is there any way that the annulment process could be streamlined and made quicker in a good way that didn’t violate the Catholic Church’s teaching on marriage?

Yes. An annulment simply states that what was believed to be a marriage was actually not a valid marriage because of some issue. Anything that can be done to make those judgments more quickly should be done so long as the process of determining whether a valid marriage exists isn’t compromised. For example, it would do wonders for dioceses to simply hire more canon lawyers.

 

[Joe_5859]

Is there any way that the annulment process could be streamlined and made quicker in a good way that didn’t violate the Catholic Church’s teaching on marriage?

That’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? Some have proposed delegating authority to the pastors to make the decision. I have several problems with that proposal, but that’s one of the things I’ve seen put forward. I don’t think I’ve seen it suggested by anyone in the hierarchy, though.

Yes. An annulment simply states that what was believed to be a marriage was actually not a valid marriage because of some issue. Anything that can be done to make those judgments more quickly should be done so long as the process of determining whether a valid marriage exists isn’t compromised. For example, it would do wonders for dioceses to simply hire more canon lawyers.

Certainly, that would be ideal to hire more canon lawyers. But where is the army of trained canon lawyers waiting in the wings? Where is the money that will be required to pay them a living wage? Simply desiring it will not make it so.

If there were a simple, easy solution, it would have been implemented already. I am curious to see if the synod comes up with anything (or if they even address this issue at all).

 

[J_Peterson]

Yes. An annulment simply states that what was believed to be a marriage was actually not a valid marriage because of some issue. Anything that can be done to make those judgments more quickly should be done so long as the process of determining whether a valid marriage exists isn’t compromised. For example, it would do wonders for dioceses to simply hire more canon lawyers.

It’s not necessarily the time involved. From what I’ve read it’s a very invasive process that involves opening old wounds with no guarantee that the annulment will be granted.

I think it should be made easier for Protestant converts. In my situation I was born and raised Catholic. Became an atheist in my early 20’s. As an atheist, I married someone who was baptized Russian Orthodox in a civil ceremony. We ended up divorced several years later. When I wanted to get remarried in the Church, my annulment took a week because it was a civil ceremony. From what I’ve heard, if we were married in a Protestant church, it would have been far more involved and expensive. Does this make sense that it was easy in my situation but way harder in the Protestant’s? They don’t have the same understanding of marriage that a Catholic does in a similar way that an atheist’s understanding is different. I think we need to be more compassionate for converts to the faith.

I’m not an expert but it feels like it needs to be fixed somehow. If this is considered a “dramatic change” then I’ll be very disappointed as this is something I hope they consider.

 

[pnewton]

Of course, we didn’t expect a “dramatic change” regarding the presence of gay organizations in the New York St. Patrick’s Day parade, but then…

Walking is in a parade, or walking is not doctrine. All disciplines of the Church are restrained by the limits of doctrine. That is what the Cardinal is teaching.

 

[ProVobis]

I think it should be made easier for Protestant converts. In my situation I was born and raised Catholic. Became an atheist in my early 20’s. As an atheist, I married someone who was baptized Russian Orthodox in a civil ceremony. We ended up divorced several years later. When I wanted to get remarried in the Church, my annulment took a week because it was a civil ceremony. From what I’ve heard, if we were married in a Protestant church, it would have been far more involved and expensive. Does this make sense that it was easy in my situation but way harder in the Protestant’s? They don’t have the same understanding of marriage that a Catholic does in a similar way that an atheist’s understanding is different. I think we need to be more compassionate for converts to the faith.

I would think an annulment of a Catholic marriage (performed by a priest or deacon) is harder to obtain than a non-Catholic one but I might be mistaken.

 

[pnewton]

I think the convert issue presents the diciest problem. If a Protestant who has been remarried wants to convert and is denied an annulment for some reason, is he simply not able? Must he desert his wife and children to become Catholic, even though subjectively there was no sin? I understand a thief must give up his stealing and an adultery his adultery, but the Church requires a family man to give up his family?

 

[ProVobis]

I think the convert issue presents the diciest problem. If a Protestant who has been remarried wants to convert and is denied an annulment for some reason, is he simply not able? Must he desert his wife and children to become Catholic, even though subjectively there was no sin? I understand a thief must give up his stealing and an adultery his adultery, but the Church requires a family man to give up his family?

This is precisely why the issue is even being debated. The children’s needs have to be considered first, I would think, but the parents’ actions can’t be glamorized either, or however you want to word that.

 

[SuzanneD]

If I had been a catholic at the time of my marriage and divorce an annulment would be easy. It wouldn’t have been valid for reasons I didn’t even know about at the time, like contraception, sterilization and not being married in a church. Although at this point in my life, I am not sure I need an annulment since I have no plans to date let alone marry.

 

[RosslynV]

The Pope seems to favor Kaspar’s approach to this issue. Pope Francis stated that Kaspar’s analysis is “theology done on one’s knees.” Kaspers pastoral approach to the divorced and remarried had been rejected by john Paul 2. Why he’s being given another go at it is beyond understanding!

 

[Joe_5859]

The Pope seems to favor Kaspar’s approach to this issue. Pope Francis stated that Kaspar’s analysis is “theology done on one’s knees.” Kaspers pastoral approach to the divorced and remarried had been rejected by john Paul 2. Why he’s being given another go at it is beyond understanding!

I don’t think the pope’s favorable words about Kaspar constitute any sort of endorsement of everything he says. The comments about Communion for divorce and remarriage were only one part of what he talked about.

Further, if you look at what Kaspar actually said, he was asking questions more so than offering solutions. He was basically asking if there would be a way to offer Communion to the divorced and remarried in some limited way. He wasn’t advocating a unilateral decision that would apply across the board to all such couples. He spoke of particular situations where it might be allowed as an act of mercy.

I still think there are some fundamental problems with that approach, however you slice it. But what Kaspar was actually proposing was far more limited in scope than many of the media reports suggested.

 

[Joe_5859]

In related news:

Cardinals Collaborate on Book to Defend Church Doctrine on Divorce, Remarriage

The book is due out next month, just in time for the Synod.

From the article:

The five cardinals authoring the book are Cardinals Gerhard Müller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Raymond Burke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, Walter Brandmüller, president emeritus of the Pontifical Committee of Historical Sciences, Carlo Caffarra, archbishop of Bologna and one of the closest theologians to St. John Paul II in questions of morality and the family, and Velasio De Paolis, president emeritus of the Prefecture for Economic Affairs of the Holy See.

 

[manualman]

I agree that any change to the actual teaching or theology would be a “dramatic” change.

But what I think (or maybe hope) he means is that a small change would be something like adjusting the administrative procedures for anullments.

Good point. It’s not uncommon for someone to submit to the tribunal and hear nothing back for months and months at a time for no apparent reason. Then after a year the applicant finds out that one person that was supposed to have submitted testimony never turned it in and THAT was what was holding everything up.

It doesn’t seem like it would be all that hard to put together an on-line password protected database where applicants could check on the status of their application, verify what has been received, whose court things are in, etc. Then if something were missing, the applicant could deal with it NOW instead of 8 months from now when word gets back to him that it’s missing.

There’s really no excuse for that level of poor service in this age.

 

[Joe_5859]

Good point. It’s not uncommon for someone to submit to the tribunal and hear nothing back for months and months at a time for no apparent reason. Then after a year the applicant finds out that one person that was supposed to have submitted testimony never turned it in and THAT was what was holding everything up.

It doesn’t seem like it would be all that hard to put together an on-line password protected database where applicants could check on the status of their application, verify what has been received, whose court things are in, etc. Then if something were missing, the applicant could deal with it NOW instead of 8 months from now when word gets back to him that it’s missing.

There’s really no excuse for that level of poor service in this age.

You’re talking about an organization where many parishes’ websites still look like they were made in the 1990’s.

That is a good idea, though. I think you’ll have a lot of diocesan IT people paranoid about hackers and therefore hesitant about such a proposition. But something like that could make a difference.

 

[Tigg]

In related news:

Cardinals Collaborate on Book to Defend Church Doctrine on Divorce, Remarriage

The book is due out next month, just in time for the Synod.

From the article:

The five cardinals authoring the book are Cardinals Gerhard Müller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Raymond Burke, prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, Walter Brandmüller, president emeritus of the Pontifical Committee of Historical Sciences, Carlo Caffarra, archbishop of Bologna and one of the closest theologians to St. John Paul II in questions of morality and the family, and Velasio De Paolis, president emeritus of the Prefecture for Economic Affairs of the Holy See.

Of the names I’m familiar with, I’m really liking what I see!

 

[Joe_5859]

Of the names I’m familiar with, I’m really liking what I see!

According to the list of Synod attendees, Müller, Burke, and Caffarra will be present at the Synod, too. I’m guessing that since the other two are both “emeritus”, they are probably retired. Though Kasper is retired, too, and he’ll still be there.

It does look like it should be a good book, though!

 

[McCall1981]

Of the names I’m familiar with, I’m really liking what I see!

Yes, I think the huge name here is Card Muller, since he is Prefect of the CDF.

Also, since Pope Francis supposedly keeps a very close eye on everything that comes out from the Vatican hierarchy, I think it’s very hopeful that he has “allowed” Card Muller to appear in this book.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

I don’t understand how anyone who has seriously been following this could expect “dramatic change”. Various Cardinals and Archbishops have been affirming over and over again that the Catholic Church’s teaching on marriage is inviolable.

As a non-Catholic who has been attending Mass over the last decade or so (and has seriously been considering conversion) my experience has been similar to ringil’s. There’s seemingly no consistency from parish to parish over exactly what is taught about marriage. I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum: individual Catholics who honestly believe that their marriage(s) are their business and no one else so they contract various secondary marriages and believe they are in a state of Grace, while others erroneously believe that civil divorce in and of itself renders one excommunicated (and I’ve even heard such taught from Catholic pulpits). In some dioceses marriage prep courses run only six months while in others its a whole year. In some dioceses its rather easy and painless to go through a marriage tribunal while in others not so.

While Catholic teaching about marriage is incredibly clear, I think it’s painfully obvious that the propagation and acceptance of such teaching is less so, and I’d expect the upcoming synod to address these issues. How can the Church better prepare individuals who are to marry for the lifetime responsibilities that come with the Sacrament? Should the Church impose universal norms as to how long marriage prep courses should be? How can the Church ensure that in all parts of the world the teaching is consistently taught? For those who are divorced already and desirous of an annulment, what could the Church do to expedite that? Should the Church even expedite it? For those who are divorced already and whose marriage cannot be annulled, what can the Church do to facilitate them in their now single state in life? I think these are more realistic expectations of what will be discussed.

 

[Joe_5859]

I don’t understand how anyone who has seriously been following this could expect “dramatic change”. Various Cardinals and Archbishops have been affirming over and over again that the Catholic Church’s teaching on marriage is inviolable.

As a non-Catholic who has been attending Mass over the last decade or so (and has seriously been considering conversion) my experience has been similar to ringil’s. There’s seemingly no consistency from parish to parish over exactly what is taught about marriage. I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum: individual Catholics who honestly believe that their marriage(s) are their business and no one else so they contract various secondary marriages and believe they are in a state of Grace, while others erroneously believe that civil divorce in and of itself renders one excommunicated (and I’ve even heard such taught from Catholic pulpits). In some dioceses marriage prep courses run only six months while in others its a whole year. In some dioceses its rather easy and painless to go through a marriage tribunal while in others not so.

While Catholic teaching about marriage is incredibly clear, I think it’s painfully obvious that the propagation and acceptance of such teaching is less so, and I’d expect the upcoming synod to address these issues. How can the Church better prepare individuals who are to marry for the lifetime responsibilities that come with the Sacrament? Should the Church impose universal norms as to how long marriage prep courses should be? How can the Church ensure that in all parts of the world the teaching is consistently taught? For those who are divorced already and desirous of an annulment, what could the Church do to expedite that? Should the Church even expedite it? For those who are divorced already and whose marriage cannot be annulled, what can the Church do to facilitate them in their now single state in life? I think these are more realistic expectations of what will be discussed.

I think you have a very good handle on what to expect from the Synod.

 

[J_Peterson]

Does anybody know how the early Church handled converts to Christianity who were divorced and remarried?

 

[Joe_5859]

Does anybody know how the early Church handled converts to Christianity who were divorced and remarried?

That’s a good question! Maybe Müller, et al, address that topic in their forthcoming book.

Whenever we encounter difficult situations, it is always good to look at how it was handled by those who went before us.