Cardinal Dolan - Explaining My Decision to Serve as Grand Marshal

[gam197]

archny.org/news-events/columns-and-blogs/cardinal-dolans-column/index.cfm?i=3430

patheos.com/blogs/frmichaelduffy/2014/09/cardinal-dolan-on-the-st-patricks-day-parade-controversy-charity-abounds/

I haven’t been in this much hot water since I made the comment, right after I arrived as your archbishop five-and-a-half years ago, that Stan Musial—my boyhood hero of my hometown St. Louis Cardinals—was a much better ballplayer than Joe DiMaggio!

Now I’m getting as much fiery mail and public criticism over my decision to accept the honor of Grand Marshal of this year’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade. According to the critics, I should have refused, due to the Parade Committee’s decision to allow a group of self-identified Gays of Irish ancestry to march in the parade with their own banner.

As with Stan Musial, I’ll stand by my decision. However, enough of you have courteously expressed some confusion and dismay, that, as your pastor, I owe you an explanation. Let me try.

For one, the decision to change the parade protocol was not mine. The archbishops of New York have never been “in charge” of the parade. Although my predecessors and I have always enjoyed friendly cooperation with the Parade Committee—and still do—and deeply appreciate the identity of the Parade as a celebration purely of Irish heritage, intimately linked to the Catholic Faith, we’ve never had a say in Parade policy or the choice of the Grand Marshal. Nor did we expect or want one!

So, in the current “brawl,” (they have been hardly rare in the Parade’s grand 253-year history!), I did not make the decision! You will recall that I in the past often expressed support for the former policy—that the only banners and identification to be carried was that the group was Irish—and that I found it logical and fair. To those who charged that the policy was “anti-Gay,” I often observed that no one person, Gay or not, was excluded from the parade. This was simply a reasonable policy about banners and public identification, not about the sexual inclinations of participants…

 

[pnewton]

Once again, I am impressed by this man. He hits every objection head on and explains how his reason addresses it. I hope those that disagree with him will at least know understand that he is acting as he thinks the Catholic shepherd of New York should act.

 

[WilT]

I must disagree. I’m not too surprised at his choice.

 

[georget]

If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Explaining My Decision to Serve as Grand Marshal

I haven’t been in this much hot water since I made the comment, right after I arrived as your archbishop five-and-a-half years ago, that Stan Musial—my boyhood hero of my hometown St. Louis Cardinals—was a much better ballplayer than Joe DiMaggio!

Now I’m getting as much fiery mail and public criticism over my decision to accept the honor of Grand Marshal of this year’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade. According to the critics, I should have refused, due to the Parade Committee’s decision to allow a group of self-identified Gays of Irish ancestry to march in the parade with their own banner.

As with Stan Musial, I’ll stand by my decision. However, enough of you have courteously expressed some confusion and dismay, that, as your pastor, I owe you an explanation. Let me try.

For one, the decision to change the parade protocol was not mine. The archbishops of New York have never been “in charge” of the parade. Although my predecessors and I have always enjoyed friendly cooperation with the Parade Committee—and still do—and deeply appreciate the identity of the Parade as a celebration purely of Irish heritage, intimately linked to the Catholic Faith, we’ve never had a say in Parade policy or the choice of the Grand Marshal. Nor did we expect or want one!

So, in the current “brawl,” (they have been hardly rare in the Parade’s grand 253-year history!), I did not make the decision! You will recall that I in the past often expressed support for the former policy—that the only banners and identification to be carried was that the group was Irish—and that I found it logical and fair. To those who charged that the policy was “anti-Gay,” I often observed that no one person, Gay or not, was excluded from the parade. This was simply a reasonable policy about banners and public identification, not about the sexual inclinations of participants.

I did not oppose the former policy; nor did I push, condone, or oppose the new one. While the Parade committee was considerate in advising me of the change, they did not ask my approval, nor did they need to.

However, I admit that, for most folks, this is not the reason they are upset with me, and this brings us to point two. Many of you, while acknowledging that the decision to change policy was not mine, feel strongly that I should protest it, publicly condemn it, no longer support the Parade, and refuse the invitation to serve as Grand Marshal.

While a handful have been less than charitable in their reactions, I must admit that many of you have rather thoughtful reasons for criticizing the committee’s decision: you observe that the former policy was fair; you worry that this is but another example of a capitulation to an “aggressive Gay agenda,” which still will not appease their demands; and you wonder if this could make people think the Church no longer has a clear teaching on the nature of human sexuality.

Thank you for letting me know of such concerns. I share some of them.

However, the most important question I had to ask myself was this: does the new policy violate Catholic faith or morals? If it does, then the Committee has compromised the integrity of the Parade, and I must object and refuse to participate or support it.

From my review, it does not. Catholic teaching is clear: “being Gay” is not a sin, nor contrary to God’s revealed morals. Homosexual actions are—as are any sexual relations outside of the lifelong, faithful, loving, lifegiving bond of a man and woman in marriage—a moral teaching grounded in the Bible, reflected in nature, and faithfully taught by the Church.

So, while actions are immoral, identity is not! In fact, as the Catechism of the Catholic Church reminds us, people with same-sex attraction are God’s children, deserving dignity and respect, never to be treated with discrimination or injustice.

To the point: the committee’s decision allows a group to publicize its identity, not promote actions contrary to the values of the Church that are such an essential part of Irish culture. I have been assured that the new group marching is not promoting an agenda contrary to Church teaching, but simply identifying themselves as “Gay people of Irish ancestry.”

If the Parade Committee allowed a group to publicize its advocacy of any actions contrary to Church teaching, I’d object. As Cardinal John O’Connor remarked, we do not change the Creed—and I’d add, the Ten Commandments—to satisfy political correctness.

In fact, the leaders of the Parade Committee tried to be admirably sensitive to Church teaching. They worried that the former policy was being interpreted as bias, exclusion, and discrimination against a group in our city, which, if true, would also be contrary to Church teaching. While they were quick to acknowledge that, in reality, the policy was not unfair at all, they were also realistic in worrying that the public perception was the opposite, no matter how often they tried to explain its coherence and fairness.

I found their sensitivity wise, and publicly said so.

If, in doing so, I have shown an insensitivity to you, I apologize.

I share the hope of the organizers that the March 17th parade will be loyal to its proud heritage of celebrating Irish identity, culture, and contributions—all a beautiful part of Catholicism— thus bringing this great community together in unity and festivity, and look forward to leading it as Grand Marshal.

archny.org/news-events/columns-and-blogs/cardinal-dolans-column/index.cfm?i=34307

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Too many people here have sat in judgement of the cardinal without full knowledge. Remember the forum rules about attacking a catholic clergyman before you post. If you ignore the rule, your account will be suspended without prior warning.

 

[pnewton]

Explaining My Decision to Serve as Grand Marshal…

I am glad you posted the whole of the letter. I have not always been where I could open external links.

What I was impressed about the statement was the candor with which he stated the opposition he has had to his decision. He addresses the points with his position, taken from Church teaching. The answer is both humble and full. Like I said. I was impressed.

The people of New York, and of America, can take this as a learning opportunity as to what the Church does and does not teach on the subject of homosexuality. The Cardinal reiterates the sinfulness of homosexuality, that it is not unique in its sinfulness, and the dignity of all people.

 

[awsiukiewicz]

Easy does it…don’t want to get banned…but…my question…and it’s not so much about his Eminence’s explanation…it’s more to do with the GLBT crowd or , whatever the letters are…not sure I know how to frame my question…why wave a flag…I digress…once again…the re-dedication of St.Fancis Church in Manhattan…the rainbow banners…the people stepping up to the lecturn touting the fact that they were accepted there…that they could receive the sacraments…and so on and so on…and one of the clergy, it looked like in the Sacristy stating how great it was to have everyone included…get this…I am all about it…I am in total agreement.,just like the parade…it’s good…no doubt…but…why wave a flag…it these individuals have same sex attraction , o.k…but I can’t help but think that they have an agenda…if there was no agenda…and these individuals were living celebant lives and not acting out…why the need to wave a banner…I have friends who have same sex attraction that I love dearly and they don’t feel the need to advertise their preference for gender…are we not in some way passively, or at least presenting ourselves passively as accepting the behavior…at least I think it’s safe t say that the majority of the general population views it that way…and can we as the Church…be a party to it…

 

[pnewton]

…but…why wave a flag…it these individuals have same sex attraction , o.k…but I can’t help but think that they have an agenda…if there was no agenda…and these individuals were living celebant lives and not acting out…why the need to wave a banner…I have friends who have same sex attraction that I love dearly and they don’t feel the need to advertise their preference for gender…

I think that is an excellent point. If you check the response of the Cardinal, he acknowledges this complaint and said he shared some of the same concerns. You present the balance for not participating in this parade.

Yet realize it is a balance. Whatever Cardinal Dolan did, the possibility for misunderstanding would exist. Could his participation be taken as acceptance of homosexual behavior? Sure, even though he point blank says it is sinful. If he had declined, the could this too not have been misunderstood, taken as rejection of the dignity of these people who are sinners, as we all are? Absolutely, it could, even if he explained the reason properly.

I accept that there is definitely a gay agenda out there that seeks acceptance of sinful behavior and this sort of activity can feed into it. However, there is also an anti-gay agenda that seeks to marginalize homosexuals by equating behavior with personhood. I do not envy those that have to make decisions like this. Our leaders, but ecclesial and political, need our prayers to maintain integrity and stand by their convictions in a day when all actions will be spun left, right, or both.

 

[markomalley]

Cardinal Dolan:

*So, while actions are immoral, identity is not! *

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

1. “Sexual orientation” does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf. Letter, no. 3) and evokes moral concern.

Cardinal Dolan:

In fact as the Catechism of the Catholic Church reminds us, people with same-sex attraction are God’s children, deserving dignity and respect, never to be treated with discrimination or injustice.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.

Cardinal Dolan:

I have been assured that the new group marching is not promoting an agenda contrary to Church teaching, but simply identifying themselves as “Gay people of Irish ancestry.”

Newsweek Magazine:

OUT@NBCUniversal, the company’s “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender & Straight Ally Employee Alliance,” will be the first LGBT group to participate in the procession, parade spokesman William O’Reilly confirmed to Newsweek in an e-mail. The Irish Voice first reported this decision.

There is no indication that this group is an Irish Homosexual group; rather, they are a media “diversity” group. While they may allow people of Irish ancestry to participate, there is no indication that Irish identity has anything to do with this group.

Cardinal Dolan:

*If the Parade Committee allowed a group to publicize its advocacy of any actions contrary to Church teaching, I’d object. *

While I have no knowledge of the banner they will use, any signs that are carried my group members, or public statements that the group will make before, during, or immediately after the parade, a quick review of the positions taken by out@nbcuniversal shows us that they support the standard positions of the homosexual lobby, such as homosexual marriage, all of which are directly contrary to the Teachings of the Church.

---

Bottom line: the most charitable interpretation is that somebody has horrendously misinformed His Eminence.

 

[abucs]

I find no fault in him. Let’s just give him a few lashes to calm the crowd.



Let’s see how the St Pat’s Day Parade develops over the next few years. If it does become a vehicle for things we don’t support then it sounds like Cardinal Dolan will gracefully distance the Church from it, which is proper.

Let’s hope it doesn’t develop that way however and we all can continue supporting the parade.

I also thought Cardinal Dolan explained both himself and the situation quite well. Thanks for posting.

 

[Book_Worm]

Easy does it…don’t want to get banned…but…my question…and it’s not so much about his Eminence’s explanation…it’s more to do with the GLBT crowd or , whatever the letters are…not sure I know how to frame my question…why wave a flag…I digress…once again…the re-dedication of St.Fancis Church in Manhattan…the rainbow banners…the people stepping up to the lecturn touting the fact that they were accepted there…that they could receive the sacraments…and so on and so on…and one of the clergy, it looked like in the Sacristy stating how great it was to have everyone included…get this…I am all about it…I am in total agreement.,just like the parade…it’s good…no doubt…but…why wave a flag…it these individuals have same sex attraction , o.k…but I can’t help but think that they have an agenda…if there was no agenda…and these individuals were living celebant lives and not acting out…why the need to wave a banner…I have friends who have same sex attraction that I love dearly and they don’t feel the need to advertise their preference for gender…are we not in some way passively, or at least presenting ourselves passively as accepting the behavior…at least I think it’s safe t say that the majority of the general population views it that way…and can we as the Church…be a party to it…

I’m not homosexual, so I cannot presume to speak for them, but if I were a member of a group whose members had been hated, vilified, persecuted and even killed (please note that I am not saying that this has been sanctioned by the Church), I might want to celebrate the fact that society no longer deems me a pariah.

 

[gam197]

I’m not homosexual, so I cannot presume to speak for them, but if I were a member of a group whose members had been hated, vilified, persecuted and even killed (please note that I am not saying that this has been sanctioned by the Church), I might want to celebrate the fact that society no longer deems me a pariah.

We are talking about catholic here and as far as the catholic church teachings goes, we are to love the person and hate the sin. We are all sinners. We don’t categorize people. They categorize themselves by giving themselves a name, homosexual, gay, gay pride. We follow suit for discussion only.So please stop blaming catholics for all the evils.

I often see the gay Human Rights Campaign Symbol - The Export of Hate, That bothers me.

 

[gam197]

Took this from another thread

originally posted by Joe 5859

Here is the self-description of the group that is marching:
OUT@NBCUniversal Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender & Straight Ally Employee Alliance (OUT) is a volunteer organization with a goal to attract, develop and retain Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Straight Ally employees and help NBCUniversal’s businesses effectively reach the LGBTQA community.

OUT@NBCUniversal attracts new employees by being visible in the local LGBT community and building a reputation as an employer of choice. OUT@NBCUniversal develops employees by providing networking opportunities, speakers and access to executives. OUT@NBCUniversal helps retain employees by providing meaningful volunteer and charity opportunities, helping people make the most of their benefits, and advocating for policies that promote an inclusive work environment. OUT@NBCUniversal helps the businesses of NBCUniversal reach the LGBTQA community by providing employees for focus groups, marketing labs and assistance with direct-to-consumer events such as local Pride festivals.

This is the sentence that bothers me, that this goup participates in pride events says that it is a political group involved in gay politics.

And if this parade gets opened to most groups, they and the media will thank Cardinal Dolan for doing so when he had nothing to do with that… That bothers me.

 

[Book_Worm]

We are talking about catholic here and as far as the catholic church teachings goes, we are to love the person and hate the sin. We are all sinners. We don’t categorize people. They categorize themselves by giving themselves a name, homosexual, gay, gay pride. We follow suit for discussion only.So please stop blaming catholics for all the evils.

I often see the gay Human Rights Campaign Symbol - The Export of Hate, That bothers me.

Please do not twist and distort what I wrote. I specifically said that hatred of gays has never been the teaching of the Church. Society, however, has been guilty of vilifying gays, and I would be surprised if there were not Catholics who have done so.

Again, the question was asked, why would gay people find it necessary to proclaim their homosexuality. I merely suggested that perhaps it is because they have been held in such contempt for so long that they now want to celebrate the fact that they no longer have to hide this part of their identity.

 

[gam197]

This is their banner from the Pride parade as they list many pictures from the NY Pride parade from their Twitter account

twitter.com/hashtag/prideNBCU?src=hash

This bothers me.

 

[zz912]

Cardinal Dolan:

I have been assured that the new group marching is not promoting an agenda contrary to Church teaching, but simply identifying themselves as “Gay people of Irish ancestry.”

Newsweek Magazine:

OUT@NBCUniversal, the company’s “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender & Straight Ally Employee Alliance,” will be the first LGBT group to participate in the procession, parade spokesman William O’Reilly confirmed to Newsweek in an e-mail. The Irish Voice first reported this decision.

There is no indication that this group is an Irish Homosexual group; rather, they are a media “diversity” group. While they may allow people of Irish ancestry to participate, there is no indication that Irish identity has anything to do with this group.

Bottom line: the most charitable interpretation is that somebody has horrendously misinformed His Eminence.

I noticed this right away. This statement that the group OUT@NBCUniversal is Irish is patently untrue. I wonder why it was included in the letter by the Cardinal? Two minutes worth of research makes this abundantly clear.

 

[zz912]

Cardinal Dolan:

I have been assured that the new group marching is not promoting an agenda contrary to Church teaching, but simply identifying themselves as “Gay people of Irish ancestry.”

Cardinal Dolan:

If the Parade Committee allowed a group to publicize its advocacy of any actions contrary to Church teaching, I’d object.

While I have no knowledge of the banner they will use, any signs that are carried my group members, or public statements that the group will make before, during, or immediately after the parade, a quick review of the positions taken by out@nbcuniversal shows us that they support the standard positions of the homosexual lobby, such as homosexual marriage, all of which are directly contrary to the Teachings of the Church.

---

Bottom line: the most charitable interpretation is that somebody has horrendously misinformed His Eminence.

These are not the same things. OUT@NBCUniversal DOES promote things contrary to the Catholic faith. This is not in question. So is it okay if a group who espouses and promotes things contrary to the faith marches in the parade, so long as they keep quiet during the parade about their promotion of things contrary to the faith? That seems to be the standard used, which is not okay.

 

[gam197]

As your post shows, this group is about having a positive work environment.
That is a good thing. And if a group participates in a “pride” event, what is wrong with that? Having pride within oneself is emotionally and mentally healthy.
Dolan sees that. He is wise in his actions, and his words that Robert Bay poste

.

Pride parades are not just about being OUT and workplace issues, they are about all rights being equal including the right to marriage.

Gay Lobbyist group -Human Rights Campain has 1,500,000 members. This is the group that put help put gay marriage in states.

Here is their blog on it.

hrc.org/blog/entry/nyc-st.-patricks-day-parade-finally-ends-discriminatory-ban-on-lgbt-groups

Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who has a long history of opposing equality for LGBT people, will lead the parade as grand marshal.

In coming years, other LGBT groups will be allowed to apply to march.

“We are pleased that the changes proposed by the parade committee will finally make it possible for LGBT Americans – including Irish Catholic LGBT Americans – to officially march under their own banners,” said Sharon Groves, director of the HRC Foundation’s Religion and Faith Program. “The discriminatory ban has been shameful, particularly in the very city where the LGBT rights movement got its start 45 years ago at the Stonewall Inn.”

 

[twoshoes]

archny.org/news-events/columns-and-blogs/cardinal-dolans-column/index.cfm?i=3430

patheos.com/blogs/frmichaelduffy/2014/09/cardinal-dolan-on-the-st-patricks-day-parade-controversy-charity-abounds/

I haven’t been in this much hot water since I made the comment, right after I arrived as your archbishop five-and-a-half years ago, that Stan Musial—my boyhood hero of my hometown St. Louis Cardinals—was a much better ballplayer than Joe DiMaggio!

Now I’m getting as much fiery mail and public criticism over my decision to accept the honor of Grand Marshal of this year’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade. According to the critics, I should have refused, due to the Parade Committee’s decision to allow a group of self-identified Gays of Irish ancestry to march in the parade with their own banner.

As with Stan Musial, I’ll stand by my decision. However, enough of you have courteously expressed some confusion and dismay, that, as your pastor, I owe you an explanation. Let me try.

For one, the decision to change the parade protocol was not mine. The archbishops of New York have never been “in charge” of the parade. Although my predecessors and I have always enjoyed friendly cooperation with the Parade Committee—and still do—and deeply appreciate the identity of the Parade as a celebration purely of Irish heritage, intimately linked to the Catholic Faith, we’ve never had a say in Parade policy or the choice of the Grand Marshal. Nor did we expect or want one!

So, in the current “brawl,” (they have been hardly rare in the Parade’s grand 253-year history!), I did not make the decision! You will recall that I in the past often expressed support for the former policy—that the only banners and identification to be carried was that the group was Irish—and that I found it logical and fair. To those who charged that the policy was “anti-Gay,” I often observed that no one person, Gay or not, was excluded from the parade. This was simply a reasonable policy about banners and public identification, not about the sexual inclinations of participants…

I have to admit that I’m not in lock step with Cardinals decision to be Gm of this Catholic Saints parade when a sinful lifestyle is endorsed. My reason are many but I won’t go into them in this post.

As a practicing Catholic who follows the teachings of the Church I will take the instructions of our Bishops to heart. I would like to add that I believe, with past history as a guide, that the Church will be forced to withdraw it’s support of the parade in a very short time. One simple sign will lead to more provocative signs.

One final comment, I have gay relatives in my family and Love them very much, but I pray for their Souls. We have only one God to worship, and it isn’t our sexuality. I’ll leave salvation to Jesus’s Will, not mine.