Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns

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shipwrkd said:
When The Cardinal finds himself nodding in agreement with someone bent on destroying the Catholic Religion I question his expertise on an issue that I don’t believe to be a moral one at all. To own a firearm is not immoral so it should not even be considered a moral issue. If the HHS mandate had nothing to do with abortion or birth control The Church wouldn’t and shouldn’t be involved. The Church was not involved in forming our Constitution, why should it be involved in attempting to change a portion of it. I don’t think you’ll find Her messing around with the First Amendment.

And this from the above post
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You edited while I was posting.

Moral guidance doesn’t require ‘statistics,’ especially secular statistics. Moral guidance is expertly given by authoritative men of the Church on ‘right’ and ‘wrong,’ and how we can have moral impact on those rights and wrongs. Statistics are not needed to recognize that multiple mass murderers have taken up guns and taken away innocent lives. That is a moral problem, one I will listen to the men of the Church on.

He is not promoting the eradication of guns totally. If he were, I’d still give his guidance proper consideration.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I’m sorry, but you seem to be skirting the issue. The Cardinal has brought suit against this administration in reference to the HHS mandate, and I don’t think anyone can question his stand on life issues, like abortion or contraceptives.

The Cardinal specifically addresses the Culture of Death, caused by a cheapening of life from violence enacted through guns. Through mass murder, groups of people have lost their dignity of life, from conception until natural death. That is a moral issue, in my opinion, and one the Cardinal certainly has expertise on.
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If I’m skirting it, your beating it to death. My opinion differs from Cardinal Dolan’s and until my Church comes out with something showing my opinion is immoral, I’ll keep it.
 
msokeefe said:
If we could just save one life…we should ban cars.
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I posted the following in post #902.
Really, they are two entirely different subjects. Vehicles and guns were designed for different purposes. The comparisons minimize the tragedies that brings gun control to the forefront of debates. Guns are at the front because they were used to cause intentional deaths. Vehicles haven’t been used the same as to create ‘mass murder.’
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It seems, to me, if one was sincere, they would be able to say the same about any instrument of death.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I’m sorry, but you seem to be skirting the issue. The Cardinal has brought suit against this administration in reference to the HHS mandate, and I don’t think anyone can question his stand on life issues, like abortion or contraceptives.

The Cardinal specifically addresses the Culture of Death, caused by a cheapening of life from violence enacted through guns. Through mass murder, groups of people have lost their dignity of life, from conception until natural death. That is a moral issue, in my opinion, and one the Cardinal certainly has expertise on.
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Does the Good Cardinal have any Culture of Death expertise on the existing factual analysis that clearly shows that further gun controls will cost lives?
 
shipwrkd said:
If I’m skirting it, your beating it to death. My opinion differs from Cardinal Dolan’s and until my Church comes out with something showing my opinion is immoral, I’ll keep it.
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No one has said your opinion is immoral.

We are all to form faith based consciences and we are required to act accordingly. We can do no more.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Statistics are not needed to recognize that multiple mass murderers have taken up guns and taken away innocent lives. That is a moral problem, one I will listen to the men of the Church on.
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So in other words, statistics are not needed in order to believe those media driven statistics you’ve just cited.:ehh:

Right. :whistle:
 
I commented on gun control in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=757062&page=10

In another thread I defended His Eminence on his failure to publicly excommunicate politicians who are pro abortion. I felt that His Eminence was acting as Pope PiusX!! did when he failed to denounce the fascists, who did not want to cut off diologue so that he could intercede on behalf of persecuted people. So now I am really confused??? His Eminence will not condemn politicians who facilitate the murder of unborn children, but he will wade into the gun control debate?

On the other hand, His Eminence has guns protecting him. He has NYPD cops assigned to St. Patrick’s Cathedral. I know this because I am retired from NYPD. Maybe we should make that location a “gun free zone” and eliminate his protection? That is what he is advocating for the flock right?
 
Cor_Cordis said:
Why isn’t he?

And would he need any statistical evidence to make his point valid?
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He also is not excommunicating politicians who push a pro abortion mass murder campaign. This takes many more human lives than guns. NY’s Gov. Cuomo is proposing late term abortions no questions asked.
 
msokeefe said:
He also is not excommunicating politicians who push a pro abortion mass murder campaign. This takes many more human lives than guns. NY’s Gov. Cuomo is proposing late term abortions no questions asked.
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Excellent points.👍
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

Please charitably discuss the issues, not other members

Please stay on the topic of the original post
 
Cor_Cordis said:
Flashback—Obama, Circa 1990s: " Don’t Believe People Should Be Able to Own Guns"

Obama’s lip service to the Second Amendment is simply part of an overarching Democrat strategy

Remember, this is the same Obama who repeatedly lied through his teeth and misled the USCCB with ObamaCare, only to turn around and bludgeon the Church’s Religious Liberties with his HHS Mandate.
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No matter what Obama says, his record on guns in Chicago speaks for itself. He can say anything he wants now and it doesn’t matter. Obama doesn’t believe in private ownership of firearms. Coincidentally, neither has any of the left wing tyrants in history. They hate civilians having guns. It comes as no surprise that the democrats, using the excuse of so called “safety,” are pursuing what they always wanted anyway. It’s a big farce. Like Obamacare for instance. Obama said no abortions will be covered, yet Planned Parenthood supported Obamacare. Obama is a big liar and baby killer.
 
jay29 said:
No matter what Obama says, his record on guns in Chicago speaks for itself. He can say anything he wants now and it doesn’t matter. Obama doesn’t believe in private ownership of firearms. Coincidentally, neither has any of the left wing tyrants in history. They hate civilians having guns. It comes as no surprise that the democrats, using the excuse of so called “safety,” are pursuing what they always wanted anyway. It’s a big farce. Like Obamacare for instance. Obama said no abortions will be covered, yet Planned Parenthood supported Obamacare. Obama is a big liar and baby killer.
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You’re absolutely right jay. On all points.

And that’s what’s so dangerous about the uniformed Bishops lending moral support to this administration, the Bishops are leaving the expertise and the details in the well established deceitful hands of the Democrats in Congress and their insidious Tyrant Dictator in the WH.

That same pattern led to disastrous results with ObamaCare.

And there is no reason to expect anything less from the Leftists on this.

The people in favor of more unconstitutional controls in here say they trust this Administration.:whistle:

but they never tell us exactly why they trust it.

The answer of course, is their blind loyalty to pure partisan politics.
**“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” **
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  • Rahm Emanuel (former Obama Chief of Staff)
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It’s coming:
Mike Bloomberg: Let’s face it, handguns are more dangerous than “assault weapons”
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“The truth of the matter is, only about 400 people a year get killed with ‘assault weapons’ or high-capacity magazines,” said Bloomberg, a big proponent of gun control. “That is 400 too many, and they’re all tragedies, but you compare that to handguns–pistols this year are going to kill 12,000 Americans. And 19,000 Americans are going to commit suicide with handguns.”
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Bloomberg brought these numbers up to make the case for stricter background checks on gun buyers.
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Never trust Leftists with your personal freedoms.

Because they simply don’t trust you with your personal freedoms.:tsktsk:

And history has proven that: time after time after time…
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The Cardinal specifically addresses the Culture of Death, caused by a cheapening of life from violence enacted through guns.
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I guess I haven’t seen this statement from Cardinal Dolan so you’ll have to explain what is meant here. Is he calling for a total ban on the private ownership of guns? If not, why not? If he is saying that guns contribute to a culture of death then why would he not call for their total elimination?
Through mass murder, groups of people have lost their dignity of life, from conception until natural death. That is a moral issue…
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A moral issue would seem to be one that faced us with moral choices - so what moral choice is involved here and what is the moral as opposed to the immoral option? I don’t think you distinguish between moral choices and societal problems. It is just as valid to say that cancer, which causes mass deaths, causes people to lose their dignity of life. Is cancer a moral problem? It kills vastly more people than gun violence so doesn’t that make it an even greater moral problem?

In fact neither is a moral issue because regardless of the severity of the problem there are no moral choices involved in resolving them.

Ender
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I’m sorry, but you seem to be skirting the issue. The Cardinal has brought suit against this administration in reference to the HHS mandate, and I don’t think anyone can question his stand on life issues, like abortion or contraceptives.

The Cardinal specifically addresses the Culture of Death, caused by a cheapening of life from violence enacted through guns. Through mass murder, groups of people have lost their dignity of life, from conception until natural death. That is a moral issue, in my opinion, and one the Cardinal certainly has expertise on.
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Yes of course.

So the good Cardinal wants to entrust The culture Of Death Party (The Democrats) with the vital details and specifics over our Constitutional Rights of self-protection.

Because THIS time I’m SURE we can trust the Party that cheapens life by denying the innocent and defenseless unborn their “personhood” so they can be slaughtered at whim, and the same Party of Death that deems it’s moral superiority to be sacrosanct in determining that older people should simply die for the good of the universal healthcare of the young, dumb, and stupid voters.:bowdown2:

Hey, after-all, old people in ICU and unborn souls in the womb can’t vote - so the Democrats are willing to take this “brave” moral stand. For our own good… you know.:tsktsk:
 
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