Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns

[BigBlueCane]

The 2nd Amendment exists so that the citizenry can protect themselves against a tyrannical government. Federalist 46 clearly states this. We should have access to exactly the same firearms the modern infantry soldier has. That’s how it was back in the time of the Amendment’s writing and all the way up until 1986.

Yeah and the SCOTUS clearly says the government can regulate the types of firearms you are able to purchase to protect yourself.

 

[Bill_Martin]

Yeah and the SCOTUS clearly says the government can regulate the types of firearms you are able to purchase to protect yourself.

I agree. I draw the line at ordnance (even though privately owned cannon and even frigates existed in the 1700’s).

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Define assault weapon. Low information voters are ignorant of the facts.

If a child squeezes their eyes real tight, do they disappear?

Denying the gun being discussed is not going to change anything. The AR15 was used in the theater, the mall, the school, and against the first responders. Will it make it better if they use the correct terms as you know it?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

LOL. So we should change laws based on popular consensus? If that was the case, Catholics would have thrown out the Gospels long ago.

Catholic preserved the Gospels for over 2000 years, so I don’t understand your point.

 

[jay29]

Catholic preserved the Gospels for over 2000 years, so I don’t understand your point.

I can take your comment to dizzying heights! Most modern day Catholics believe in artificial contraception, gay marriage, pro-choice, female priesthood…

If most Catholics had their way Catholicism would be watered down to basically nothing. It would reflect modern day secular values.

 

[Salymo]

Your Eminance, I was dissappointed in your public support for President Obama’s “Gun control” agenda. Do you really trust this diabolical man? I was just getting over your yucking it up with this evil man at the Al smith dinner. Do you think that our Lord Jesus Christ would Dine with “Evil”?

Hisory proves that past tyranical governments have dis-armed the public, in addition to a take-over of healthcare in order to control “the masses”. Do you not know about his Marxist backround? If not, I beg to do some research.

With all do respect your Eminence, you just made our job of defending our beloved Catholic Church that much harder.

While you claim to invock the 1st ammendment in regard to the horrible HHS mandate, you are undermining our 2nd ammendment, and why it is TRULY and neccisery a crucial Ammendment in the US constitution.

You Eminence, I will continue to pray with a loveing heart that your leadership be strong anf full of wisdom. We need bold and strong leaders now more than ever.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I can take your comment to dizzying heights! Most modern day Catholics believe in artificial contraception, gay marriage, pro-choice, female priesthood…

If most Catholics had their way Catholicism would be watered down to basically nothing. It would reflect modern day secular values.

But, over the ages, Catholics have submitted to the authority of the hierarchy of the Church, through the authoritative men of the Church, in the best interest of their spiritual needs, and Catholicism is NOT watered down.

Speaking of secular values, and spiritual, where do guns play into either?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Your Eminance, I was dissappointed in your public support for President Obama’s “Gun control” agenda. Do you really trust this diabolical man? I was just getting over your yucking it up with this evil man at the Al smith dinner. Do you think that our Lord Jesus Christ would Dine with “Evil”?

Hisory proves that past tyranical governments have dis-armed the public, in addition to a take-over of healthcare in order to control “the masses”. Do you not know about his Marxist backround? If not, I beg to do some research.

With all do respect your Eminence, you just made our job of defending our beloved Catholic Church that much harder.

While you claim to invock the 1st ammendment in regard to the horrible HHS mandate, you are undermining our 2nd ammendment, and why it is TRULY and neccisery a crucial Ammendment in the US constitution.

You Eminence, I will continue to pray with a loveing heart that your leadership be strong anf full of wisdom. We need bold and strong leaders now more than ever.

Do we need bold and strong leaders who only agree with the laity, or who lead the laity with all they’ve received through the authoritative Church? In my opinion, a bold and strong leader leads on issues of right and not according to who, or what political party, supports specifically. Those leaders are neither ‘right’ or ‘left’, but they follow Him, while leading the flock.

 

[jay29]

But, over the ages, Catholics have submitted to the authority of the hierarchy of the Church, through the authoritative men of the Church, in the best interest of their spiritual needs, and Catholicism is NOT watered down.

Speaking of secular values, and spiritual, where do guns play into either?

98% of Catholics use artificial contraception.
Catholics are the ones procuring most of the abortions.
60% of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence.
25% of Catholics go to Mass on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation
75% of Catholics do not believe in the Sacrament of Penance.

Would you like to explain these statistics in light of your comments? Most Catholics don’t listen to any Church Authority at all.

Authentic Catholicism is not watered down. Progressive Catholics would make it so.​

Guns hold no moral value by themselves. The misuse of them is the problem.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

98% of Catholics use artificial contraception.
Catholics are the ones procuring most of the abortions.
60% of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence.
25% of Catholics go to Mass on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation
75% of Catholics do not believe in the Sacrament of Penance.

Would you like to explain these statistics in light of your comments? Most Catholics don’t listen to any Church Authority at all.

===============================

Guns hold no moral value by themselves. The misuse of them is the problem.

Sources?

And let’s look at how many followed God at the time of Noah. It’s not a numbers game, and none are perfect. That’s why they submit to the Church. So what most do has nothing to do with the Church’s authority over the ages to the present day and the proclamations made by it. Are you suggesting that since some don’t follow all the Church’s teachings, it can ignore the Church when it suits them?

 

[ProVobis]

Catholics may have been thrown out of the US too.

Catholics are basically latecomers in the U.S. When all things considered, it’s wonderful to have as much as 20% of the population and 2/3 of the Supreme Court Catholic.

 

[jay29]

Sources?

On the net. Easy to find.

And let’s look at how many followed God at the time of Noah. It’s not a numbers game, and none are perfect. That’s why they submit to the Church. So what most do has nothing to do with the Church’s authority over the ages to the present day and the proclamations made by it. Are you suggesting that since some don’t follow all the Church’s teachings, it can ignore the Church when it suits them?

What I am saying is most Catholics do not follow Church teachings or Authority. My issue with Cardinal Dolan is that he doesn’t speak for the whole Church and his firearms knowledge isn’t what it needs to be. We have a people problem and not a gun problem.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Would you like to explain these statistics in light of your comments?

Authentic Catholicism is not watered down.

Emphasis is mine. In your edit, you answered your question.

There was only one who was perfect, and He was not armed with tools designed to take life, nor did he command others to do so. We, in our imperfections, walk as best as we can. Because some would question, or go against, Church teachings is not license to pick and choose.

 

[jay29]

Emphasis is mine. In your edit, you answered your question.

There was only one who was perfect, and He was not armed with tools designed to take life, nor did he command others to do so. We, in our imperfections, walk as best as we can. Because some would question, or go against, Church teachings is not license to pick and choose.

Legitimate self defense is in complete alignment with the Gospels of Life and Church teachings.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

On the net. Easy to find.

What I am saying is most Catholics do not follow Church teachings or Authority. My issue with Cardinal Dolan is that he doesn’t speak for the whole Church and his firearms knowledge isn’t what it needs to be. We have a people problem and not a gun problem.

Reminds me of the commercial:

Everything you find on the internet is true, and nothing untrue can be put on the internet. I read that on the internet.

Please provide those men of the Church that speak in favor of gun controls in agreement with how you’ve conveyed them? Or provide those that disagree with Cardinal Dolan’s remarks on the Holy See, the Catechism, and the bishops. He is very public and I’m sure a majority of them would know what his views are. It’s one thing to say, ‘he doesn’t represent the Church,’ because one disagrees with his view, it’s another to produce those who represent the Church in agreement with one’s views.

I’ve posted his remarks on his qualifications, and those with the responsibility. In that, he addresses the knowledge you place over him.

And again, we separate the people problem from the tools they pick up to put their problems into actions against the innocent. There is a connection. Drinking alcohol is not a problem, it’s people that are the problem; yet, we have laws/rules against public intoxication, driving under the influence, working under the influence, etc. etc.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Legitimate self defense is in complete alignment with the Gospels of Life and Church teachings.

Cardinal Dolan addressed that chapter of the Catechism. The ‘complete’ alignment is subject to personal interpretation, or so it seems.

 

[ProVobis]

Legitimate self defense

This is a survival instinct of all animals, plants, and humans. I don’t know how it becomes a moral issue or even a Christian issue.

 

[Least]

Quote:
a·pos·ta·sy
[uh-pos-tuh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural a·pos·ta·sies.
a total desertion of or departure from one’s religion, principles, party, cause, etc.
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English apostasye (< Anglo-French ) < Late Latin apostasia < Greek: a standing away, withdrawing, equivalent to apóstas ( is ) ( apo- apo- + sta- stand + -sis -sis) + -ia -ia

Now, I kindly ask that you provide statements from the men of the Church, along with the sources, that agree with your view.

The United States is of this world; or it can be called secular. It does not come before the Church, which is a part of the Kingdom of God.

---

I concede that term, I went back and looked at my 1994 Chatechism and only found one reference around page 455. My understanding came from an adult religious education class I am currently completing, In fact my citation was an attempt at a direct quote of the example given in class.

In any case I speak for me, the Cardinal has come out with the President against guns, more than he has come out against the president (and other democrats, some down the block a ways) for pro-life.

 

[jay29]

In any case I speak for me, the Cardinal has come out with the President against guns, more than he has come out against the president (and other democrats, some down the block a ways) for pro-life.

Imagine if every bishop went after abortion like they are go after guns!

 

[Salymo]

Do we need bold and strong leaders who only agree with the laity, or who lead the laity with all they’ve received through the authoritative Church? In my opinion, a bold and strong leader leads on issues of right and not according to who, or what political party, supports specifically. Those leaders are neither ‘right’ or ‘left’, but they follow Him, while leading the flock.

No not at all. Do we need bold and strong leaders who support an evil man’s agenda. I viewed a close up of Obama’s non-tears. He is a demonic lier, and could care less about the sweet precious children whom were slayed by a sick and demented individual. I have’t felt so heart broken since 9/11/2001. I lost many good friends that day. I worked in the financial industry for 30 years in the downtown Manhatten district. I have loved and cherrished children/babies since I was a little boy. At 7 years old, I was horrified by abortion. I’m sorry, we can’t be allies with evil in any political party. I’m a Catholic, and not a member of a party and put no faith in any politition. I bow and kneel to God only.