Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns

[Salymo]

Emphasis is mine. In your edit, you answered your question.

There was only one who was perfect, and He was not armed with tools designed to take life, nor did he command others to do so. We, in our imperfections, walk as best as we can. Because some would question, or go against, Church teachings is not license to pick and choose.

Read your Catechism. The church justifies killing, not murder in cases of self deffence. The Catholic Church is not a passive religon, never was and hopefully never will be. Are we to use a chair to stop one or many well armed would be murderers whom threaten our lives and the lives of our families? Liberalism is a cancer to our Church and civilization as a whole.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Read your Catechism. The church justifies killing, not murder in cases of self deffence. The Catholic Church is not a passive religon, never was and hopefully never will be. Are we to use a chair to stop one or many well armed would be murderers? Liberalism is a cancer to our Church and civilization as a whole.

I have read it, and read in light of what the authoritative men of the Church teach. The Cardinal references the Catechism in the article, blog, that he wrote himself.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It’s not about how many times, or how much effort, has been placed on ‘other’ issues. The Cardinal, nor the bishops, have been remiss in their duties on any issue. It seems some would say the bishops are remiss, if those bishops happen to speak against one of their own personal views. These men have dedicated their entire lives to serving God. Does that make them perfect? No, they are still men and open to mistakes, as we all are. We, however, are in no position to judge another, especially our prelates, who are the authoritative men of the Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No not at all. Do we need bold and strong leaders who support an evil man’s agenda. I viewed a close up of Obama’s non-tears. He is a demonic lier, and could care less about the sweet precious children whom were slayed by a sick and demented individual. I have’t felt so heart broken since 9/11/2001. I lost many good friends that day. I worked in the financial industry for 30 years in the downtown Manhatten district. I have loved and cherrished children/babies since I was a little boy. At 7 years old, I was horrified by abortion. I’m sorry, we can’t be allies with evil in any political party. I’m a Catholic, and not a member of a party and put no faith in any politition. I bow and kneel to God only.

So, you have the power to look at a picture, or video, and make judgments on what’s inside a person? That’s not meant to be offensive, but offered as food for thought of what you’re saying.

The Cardinal is not saying he has common ground with everything another man has said. He is honest enough to say when he finds common ground on a ‘single’ issue. None of us are perfect, including politicians. That means none of us are in a position of judging another man’s soul, or that which cannot be observed with the eye.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Imagine if every bishop went after abortion like they are go after guns!

Jay, please provide for us the men of the Church that are speaking publicly in favor of the gun control issue, that would be in agreement with what you’ve been saying on the subject.

 

[Salymo]

I have read it, and read in light of what the authoritative men of the Church teach. The Cardinal references the Catechism in the article, blog, that he wrote himself.

Any one can pick and choose what the Catechism teaches in order to mis-lead the the flock. The Protestens do it all the time. Not only did I read the Cathehism, but I learn a lot from well respected proffesors , to name one fr. Brian Mullayhe. fr Brian has a series on EWTN called “Both A Servant And Free” and the teachings of Catholic morality. You ought to look into it.

 

[ProVobis]

Any one can pick and choose what the Catechism teaches in order to mis-lead the the flock. The Protestens do it all the time.

I didn’t even know the Protestants were reading the Catholic Catechism. Good for them.

 

[Salymo]

I didn’t even know the Protestants were reading the Catholic Catechism. Good for them.

I sometimes surf the Protestant channels, they use the Catechism to point out precieved heracies. Sorry, but’s not very good.

 

[Ender]

Do we need bold and strong leaders who only agree with the laity, or who lead the laity with all they’ve received through the authoritative Church?

Let’s be clear that Cardinal Dolan’s comments on gun control carry none of the authority of the church. As he himself acknowledged he is “no expert on the particulars of gun control legislation”. He - along with pretty much everyone else - would like to see something effective done to diminish the possibility of incidents like the one in Newtown. Unfortunately he - like pretty much everyone else - has only a vague idea of what such actions would look like so while he might personally support the new gun control law in NY that really says nothing whatever about whether that law will actually have the results he anticipates and it certainly doesn’t mean anyone else should feel obligated to support that law.

In my opinion, a bold and strong leader leads on issues of right and not according to who, or what political party, supports specifically. Those leaders are neither ‘right’ or ‘left’, but they follow Him, while leading the flock.

I would prefer a bold, strong leader who clearly distinguished his responsibilities from those of his followers and who encouraged those under him to assume their own duties. Gun control is a lay problem, not a clerical one.

Ender

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Any one can pick and choose what the Catechism teaches in order to mis-lead the the flock. The Protestens do it all the time. Not only did I read the Cathehism, but I learn a lot from well respected proffesors , to name one fr. Brian Mullayhe. fr Brian has a series on EWTN called “Both A Servant And Free” and the teachings of Catholic morality. You ought to look into it.

Let’s try this approach then. Please provide those men of the Church who are espousing the correct teaching on guns, or gun controls, that you would agree with.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let’s be clear that Cardinal Dolan’s comments on gun control carry none of the authority of the church. As he himself acknowledged he is “no expert on the particulars of gun control legislation”. He - along with pretty much everyone else - would like to see something effective done to diminish the possibility of incidents like the one in Newtown. Unfortunately he - like pretty much everyone else - has only a vague idea of what such actions would look like so while he might personally support the new gun control law in NY that really says nothing whatever about whether that law will actually have the results he anticipates and it certainly doesn’t mean anyone else should feel obligated to support that law.
I would prefer a bold, strong leader who clearly distinguished his responsibilities from those of his followers and who encouraged those under him to assume their own duties. Gun control is a lay problem, not a clerical one.

Ender

I’ll ask you, like I’ve asked others; please show us the bold and strong leaders who are preaching gun rights as you would agree with.

 

[Least]

We, however, are in no position to judge another, especially our prelates, who are the authoritative men of the Church.

We can in answer to judgment, funny how people taking incoming fire always feel they are being warred-upon instead of their war being answered.

Funny too, how silent things fall when other liberal issues are raised in the same light.

Jay - it doesn’t matter if they want to disarm themselves, don’t let them disarm you for the next civil war, or war with China, if they want to post as early fodder, you can’t help them.

We can link-up later and get a civilian extraction-team together to help the Cardinal out, if his Emminence wants. By then, he’ll probably be up on the roof of the residency waiting for a helo and throwing slippers.

Seems like I remember that a prayer in the opening of the Catholic Rite was just recently changed from something like offering peace to all (or to all men), to peace to all men of good-will. Who’s going to enforce that one?

; )

Anyway CHRIST’S PEACE to all men of good-will.

 

[jay29]

I’ll ask you, like I’ve asked others; please show us the bold and strong leaders who are preaching gun rights as you would agree with.

Many bishops believe in socialism as well. Big surprise. You would think the bishops getting burned by Obama and the HHS mandate would wake them up a little. Being to cosy with democrats doesn’t always turn out well. Look at what the progressive/democrat Catholic has done to the Church from within!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Many bishops believe in socialism as well. Big surprise. You would think the bishops getting burned by Obama and the HHS mandate would wake them up a little. Being to cosy with democrats doesn’t always turn out well. Look at what the progressive/democrat Catholic has done to the Church from within!

So, there are no bishops espousing gun rights as you have expressed them?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We can in answer to judgment, funny how people taking incoming fire always feel they are being warred-upon instead of their war being answered.

Funny too, how silent things fall when other liberal issues are raised in the same light.

Jay - it doesn’t matter if they want to disarm themselves, don’t let them disarm you for the next civil war, or war with China, if they want to post as early fodder, you can’t help them.

We can link-up later and get a civilian extraction-team together to help the Cardinal out, if his Emminence wants. By then, he’ll probably be up on the roof of the residency waiting for a helo and throwing slippers.

Seems like I remember that a prayer in the opening of the Catholic Rite was just recently changed from something like offering peace to all (or to all men), to peace to all men of good-will. Who’s going to enforce that one?

; )

Anyway CHRIST’S PEACE to all men of good-will.

It’s not a civil war being discussed as much as it is a ‘coup’, since it appears to be civilian against government; and the government has a much better armament than any group of citizens. As for the ‘war with China,’ I don’t think any civilian weapon would stand against that war and the weapons at each countries disposals.

Planning for war, and death, is not planning for eternal life, in my opinion.

 

[Least]

It’s not a civil war being discussed as much as it is a ‘coup’, since it appears to be civilian against government; and the government has a much better armament than any group of citizens. As for the ‘war with China,’ I don’t think any civilian weapon would stand against that war and the weapons at each countries disposals.

Civil Wars are never discussed.

The only coup happening here is that people in power want to impose on those they serve in a manner not available to them under the Constitution.

This country was founded by a few starving frozen shot-up farmers. GOD-fearing men, who I believe would be asking the same questions of the Cardinal. Maybe more eloquently, certainly with greater reverence (and, in that, I have failed all, including myself, and I am very sorry and am working on repentence)

As for the ‘war with China,’ I don’t think any civilian weapon would stand against that war and the weapons at each countries disposals.

There’s that liberal “BOHICA” nonsense again.

 

[Salymo]

Let’s try this approach then. Please provide those men of the Church who are espousing the correct teaching on guns, or gun controls, that you would agree with.

Instead, How about we not debate any further. I tryed and failed. Liberalism blinds THE TRUTH.

 

[jay29]

It’s not a civil war being discussed as much as it is a ‘coup’, since it appears to be civilian against government; and the government has a much better armament than any group of citizens. As for the ‘war with China,’ I don’t think any civilian weapon would stand against that war and the weapons at each countries disposals.

Planning for war, and death, is not planning for eternal life, in my opinion.

Seriously?

Our government sucks in terms of fighting a guerrilla war. Our military got their rear ends handed to them by a bunch of short people with rifles running through tunnels even though our military was armed with tanks and B-52s. The Soviets got their beating by a bunch of people wearing dirty bed sheets with rifles that hid in caves.

If every gun owner went on the warpath in this country it would be all over for the police and military.

Gun owners bought more guns in nov. and dec. of 2012 to outfit the whole chinese and indian armies combined with brand new rifles!

 

[Lucky7]

Gun control is a lay problem, not a clerical one.

Ultimately, gun control laws are the responsibility of the government and its citizens. However, as with interpreting the Church’s just war theory and whether its guidelines fit the matter at hand, Church leaders speak on the matter with their own interpretations. We can choose to agree or disagree. However, it is foolish to ignore those interpretations and wrong to condemn them.

I do find it interesting that there does not appear to be any Church leaders who have taken the side of no gun control.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Who said I don’t need assault weapons?

People don’t need to vote either. It is a luxury, but certainly not a need. if it was, the half the country who doesn;t vote would have died a long time ago and we’d consistently have close to 100% of people (or 101% in select democratic counties).

Using need as a barometer is too easy to pick apart rheotircally and legally. I wouldn’t go that route.