Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns

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Its not luck…a majority of americans support it which means youre in the miniority. How does that feel?
A majority of people killed Christ. A majority suppported slavery. A majority support at least limited access to abortion.

Your point? We know as Catholics (as I’m sure you’ll agree) that in each of those cases, the majority is or was wrong.
 
I do find it interesting that there does not appear to be any Church leaders who have taken the side of no gun control.
What do you mean no gun control? You sound like we don’t have any. Geez I waited 8 months just to own a pistol! :eek:
 
People don’t need to vote either. It is a luxury, but certainly not a need. if it was, the half the country who doesn;t vote would have died a long time ago and we’d consistently have close to 100% of people (or 101% in select democratic counties).

Using need as a barometer is too easy to pick apart rheotircally and legally. I wouldn’t go that route.
Rights are not about a need. Rights are in place for the individual’s choice to exercise or not. The Bill of Rights is meant to keep the government in check.
 
Ultimately, gun control laws are the responsibility of the government and its citizens. However, as with interpreting the Church’s just war theory and whether its guidelines fit the matter at hand, Church leaders speak on the matter with their own interpretations. We can choose to agree or disagree. However, it is foolish to ignore those interpretations and wrong to condemn them.

I do find it interesting that there does not appear to be any Church leaders who have taken the side of no gun control.
The problem is statement’s like the Cardinal’s are meaningless without specifics, which he won’t give, because he can’t. Most people agree with some controls on weapons, which we already have. No problem there. So we all agree with the cardinal in theory, but as soon as he leaves the podium and says now what, he shrugs and say “I’m no expert in the details.”

It’s like saying I share common ground with Obama in that I support sensible immigration reform, or access to medical care for all. Well whoopty do. Who doesn’t? The devil then lies in the details, and EACH SIDE in the debate can point to the Cardinal and say “see, I share his view.”

Only on black and white issues can orthodox, faithful Catholics point and say “I share the Cardinal’s view.” There is no cause for abortion. There is never justification for euthenasia. Homosexual marriage is never acceptable.

And the problem is, the President is diametrically opposed to us on every single critical, undebatable issue.

The Cardinal is a spiritual leader, but also needs the politcal savy to not confuse his flock, espeically in these times. Giving even the appearance of being on the same side on a minor issue compared to the intrinsically serious issues of no agreement just looks poor, and gives dissident Catholics a chance to say “see, the Cardinal agrees with the president on somethings.”

Like i said, he might as well have said “One thing I agree woth De Fuhrer on is we both love bread pudding. (Too bad we disagree on the slaughter of millions of jews.)”

In the end, the pro-gun folks could easily point to the cardinal’s statements as agreeing with them too. I don’t support selling guns to minors, or selling tanks on ebay. Yes, very profound statement.
 
Quote:
This country was founded by a few starving frozen shot-up farmers.
Well this is a fascinating plot for the birth of an alternate American as per novels by sci-fi writers like Harry Turtledove. It’s rather far removed from the real events however.

Where you from? America had “founding fathers.” The actual founders of this great nation were the ones who bled and died for it (the rest were just fancy-talkers) dragging liberal idiots behind them. Read Washington’s journals.

They are the reason I have the time and opportunity to get to have you waste my time here.
 
A majority of people killed Christ. A majority suppported slavery. A majority support at least limited access to abortion.

Your point? We know as Catholics (as I’m sure you’ll agree) that in each of those cases, the majority is or was wrong.
Popular consensus is meaningless to me.
 
Rights are not about a need. Rights are in place for the individual’s choice to exercise or not. The Bill of Rights is meant to keep the government in check.
I agree with. I’m just making the point that few rights in the constitution are true needs. To use “you don’t need a gun” is a bad argument for the anti-gun folks. I don;t need a lot I have a right to, legally. like the right to vote.
 
I agree with. I’m just making the point that few rights in the constitution are true needs. To use “you don’t need a gun” is a bad argument for the anti-gun folks. I don;t need a lot I have a right to, legally. like the right to vote.
I never said “you don’t need a gun” In fact I want to own guns the government doesn’t want me to have.
 
The problem is statement’s like the Cardinal’s are meaningless without specifics, which he won’t give, because he can’t. Most people agree with some controls on weapons, which we already have. No problem there. So we all agree with the cardinal in theory, but as soon as he leaves the podium and says now what, he shrugs and say “I’m no expert in the details.”

It’s like saying I share common ground with Obama in that I support sensible immigration reform, or access to medical care for all. Well whoopty do. Who doesn’t? The devil then lies in the details, and EACH SIDE in the debate can point to the Cardinal and say “see, I share his view.”

Only on black and white issues can orthodox, faithful Catholics point and say “I share the Cardinal’s view.” There is no cause for abortion. There is never justification for euthenasia. Homosexual marriage is never acceptable.

And the problem is, the President is diametrically opposed to us on every single critical, undebatable issue.

The Cardinal is a spiritual leader, but also needs the politcal savy to not confuse his flock, espeically in these times. Giving even the appearance of being on the same side on a minor issue compared to the intrinsically serious issues of no agreement just looks poor, and gives dissident Catholics a chance to say “see, the Cardinal agrees with the president on somethings.”

Like i said, he might as well have said “One thing I agree woth De Fuhrer on is we both love bread pudding. (Too bad we disagree on the slaughter of millions of jews.)”

In the end, the pro-gun folks could easily point to the cardinal’s statements as agreeing with them too. I don’t support selling guns to minors, or selling tanks on ebay. Yes, very profound statement.
I hear what you are saying, but please do not ruin your point by equating your Hitler reference to this. It’s just not the same.

Trust me, liberal/progressive Catholics are not confused by Dolan’s comments. For the most part, they still hate Dolan.
 
I never knew that Valley Forge was a sci-fir story. :rolleyes:
Liberals tend not to be too bright on history. Many liberals I know view America as a problem in the world since it’s inception. Big surprise. 🤷
 
I never said “you don’t need a gun” In fact I want to own guns the government doesn’t want me to have.
I know you don’t. BigBluewhathisname did. I was quoting your response as a form of agreement with you. He’s wrong.
 
I hear what you are saying, but please do not ruin your point by equating your Hitler reference to this. It’s just not the same.

Trust me, liberal/progressive Catholics are not confused by Dolan’s comments. For the most part, they still hate Dolan.
I wouldn’t be so quick to disqualify the statement. Support for unfettered murder of millions in the womb is no different than support for the genocide of millions of jews. Since all human life is equally valuable from the moment of conception, the legacy of abortion is far worse, if only in sheer magnitude.
 
Haven’t you had enough problems in Northern Ireland to talk about any sort of leadership? LOL.

I remember way back when I lived in England for 6 years the Docklands and Bishop’s Gate bombings in London when things were crazy over there…
 
I wouldn’t be so quick to disqualify the statement. Support for unfettered murder of millions in the womb is no different than support for the genocide of millions of jews. Since all human life is equally valuable from the moment of conception, the legacy of abortion is far worse, if only in sheer magnitude.
Abortion is the worst Holocaust in human history. Nothing compares to 50 plus million since 1973 in the US alone. 4,000/day. What comes even close?
 
Abortion is the worst Holocaust in human history. Nothing compares to 50 plus million since 1973 in the US alone. 4,000/day. What comes even close?
Nothing, which is why the comparison is apt.
 
That’s why I posted it. I do actually think the brits should get out of N. Ireland and stay out. 😃
 
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