Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns

[Lucky7]

The point being, gun-ownership [the ownership of weapons] will outlive **organized Christianity **and even the idea of America, so don’t be so quick to see its eradication.

Outlive the Catholic Church? I think this quote says A LOT about what gun ownership means to some.

 

[Least]

Outlive the Catholic Church? I think this quote says A LOT about what gun ownership means to some.

Ya, it means honesty. Christianity, aside from the DIVINE PROVIDENCE OF GOD, is otherwise beholden to the earthly-mighty. One of the reasons it survives today, is because some of its faithful have defended themselves, and held-out to others that they should not assume (a Christian’s) Christianity will be afforded to them if they are deemed a threat.

 

[Least]

Outlive the Catholic Church? I think this quote says A LOT about what gun ownership means to some.

I did say “organized,” the ‘last-days’ in John don’t talk about a lot of folks flocking to Mass or Confession.

 

[jay29]

The Bishops have enough on their plates with what is going on in the Church,

…and it’s 90% of their own fault! The American Church is in ROTTEN SHAPE. Look at any American poll and see what Catholics believe in and what the Catechism teaches. Absolute failure of leadership all the way around.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

1. We already have all sorts of restrictions. Unless you have specifics you want that you have reason to believe will save lives (despite massacres rarely occurring with “assault rifles”, mind you), state them.
2. Like you said, Catholic teaching doesn’t address specifics on ownership, which is why one can take either side and be “right.”
3. If you, he or anyone else said “based on all available data, the current laws x,y,z and proven ineffective even when properly enforced. Data also shows that this is what needs to happen.” No one does that though.

Again, it is basically like me saying we need to be tougher on people in Nevada who get caught with LSD. Despite me not know anything about the specific laws thereto, I just think so.

That too would be somewhat useless.

The most effective way to solve these problems is to stop the breakdown of the family, the push for secularism, removal of prayer in schools, the push to legitimize homosexuality, and the glorifying of violence in the media.

When the government starts there, I’ll listen. That’s the real root of the problem.

Since no one can cite any data that the Bishops have pointed to to support his position, let’s not drag it out any more. It is a huge waste of time which could be better spent finding solutions with some actualy behind them (hint: they don’t exist yet.)

Cardinal Dolan feels as he does. He makes this assertion based on nothing tangible or verifiable. He’s done no research on the current gun laws. He’s done no research on the specific killings. And yet, he’s seen as credible on a specific issue that requires each of these?

Please, stop. Why not ask him for gambling tips for the next UFC. He can advise us there too, since that is something else he isn’t familiar with.

 

[O_F]

How can you see the intent of other people’s hearts? Where do you get your authority to say who is ‘real’ Catholics?

By their political support. It is obvious YOU are obama supporter and no one being a real Catholic can support this abortion-crazy, gaymarriage obsessed leftist.

Catholics In Name Only - yes, they can

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Since no one can cite any data that the Bishops have pointed to to support his position, let’s not drag it out any more. It is a huge waste of time which could be better spent finding solutions with some actualy behind them (hint: they don’t exist yet.)

Cardinal Dolan feels as he does. He makes this assertion based on nothing tangible or verifiable. He’s done no research on the current gun laws. He’s done no research on the specific killings. And yet, he’s seen as credible on a specific issue that requires each of these?

Please, stop. Why not ask him for gambling tips for the next UFC. He can advise us there too, since that is something else he isn’t familiar with.

Cardinal Dolan’s tangibles are the victims of Newtown, added to the victims in the theater, mall, first responding, etc. etc. It’s not hard to ‘research’ what’s going on.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

By their political support. It is obvious YOU are obama supporter and no one being a real Catyholic can support this abortion-crazy, gaymarriage obsessed leftist.

Catholics In Name Only - yes, they can

You are wrong, and it’s against the rules to discuss personally and off topic You may want to read the rules.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Outlive the Catholic Church? I think this quote says A LOT about what gun ownership means to some.

It shows priorities.

 

[O_F]

You are wrong, and it’s against the rules to discuss personally and off topic You may want to read the rules.

Ah, when you asked about “how do you know” you meant it is only rhethorical question?

well, I do not answer rhethorical questions, but I make logical conclusions based on the words written. In this matter - by your own words.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Ah, when you asked about “how do you know” you meant it is only rhethorical question?

well, I do not answer rhethorical questions, but I make logical conclusions based on the words written. In this matter - by your own words.

No, it’s not rhetorical. It’s straightforward. How can you see the intent of another person’s heart? How can you see if invincible ignorance is present or not? Where do you get authority to say who belongs to His Church and who doesn’t?

Because I agree with Cardinal Dolan, and his common ground with the president, doesn’t make either of us supporters. Guns contribute to the culture of death. As a gun owner, I would consider controls a small sacrifice to make for the sake of as few a victims as possible.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Cardinal Dolan’s tangibles are the victims of Newtown, added to the victims in the theater, mall, first responding, etc. etc. It’s not hard to ‘research’ what’s going on.

That’s some might fine empirical data you have there. There’s really nothing to discuss if you consider that empirical evidence of anything, other than your inability to provide actual empirical evidence.

 

[ProVobis]

Christianity, aside from the DIVINE PROVIDENCE OF GOD, is otherwise beholden to the earthly-mighty. One of the reasons it survives today, is because some of its faithful have defended themselves, and held-out to others that they should not assume (a Christian’s) Christianity will be afforded to them if they are deemed a threat.

So the work of martyrs was all in vain?

Sorry to have to tell you this, but God runs the Church, not the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Least]

It shows priorities.

I’ve demonstrated my priorities. Here and abroad.

You’ve shown your ignorance as to why you’ve been afforded the opportunity to prioritize otherwise.

 

[Ender]

Cardinal Dolan’s tangibles are the victims of Newtown, added to the victims in the theater, mall, first responding, etc. etc.

If Newtown is tangible evidence of anything it is of the problem we’re trying to solve. Bemoaning that incident, however, gives us no insight in how to prevent such events in the future … which is what the discussion ought to be about. Everyone can agree that we would eliminate such tragedies if we knew how. That no one knows how - including Cardinal Dolan - is the point being made.

Ender

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That’s some might fine empirical data you have there. There’s really nothing to discuss if you consider that empirical evidence of anything, other than your inability to provide actual empirical evidence.

But controls won’t work without knowing what type controls, and the end result is very reliable evidence?

Mass shooters are picking up AR15s and killing a lot of people. That’s very evident.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’ve demonstrated my priorities. Here and abroad.

You’ve shown your ignorance as to why you’ve been afforded the opportunity to prioritize otherwise.

I will always prioritize through the teaching of Christ, and His Church; no matter how ignorant or wrongly prioritized others mind find it to be.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If Newtown is tangible evidence of anything it is of the problem we’re trying to solve. Bemoaning that incident, however, gives us no insight in how to prevent such events in the future … which is what the discussion ought to be about. Everyone can agree that we would eliminate such tragedies if we knew how. That no one knows how - including Cardinal Dolan - is the point being made.

Ender

Were those guns secure? If not, would a strict securing law have had any effect? There’s no insight for those who say nothing will work, or we have enough controls. We’re not going to figure out what would work if we do nothing.

 

[SamH]

If Newtown is tangible evidence of anything it is of the problem we’re trying to solve. Bemoaning that incident, however, gives us no insight in how to prevent such events in the future … which is what the discussion ought to be about. Everyone can agree that we would eliminate such tragedies if we knew how. That no one knows how - including Cardinal Dolan - is the point being made.

Ender

The first would be to end the stupid “No Firearms Zones”.

 

[O_F]

The first would be to end the stupid “No Firearms Zones”.

exactly. in case someone REALLY would like to stop the mass shootings and not to use it as a pretext to faze out 2nd Amendment