Cardinal Dolan finds common ground with Obama on guns

[Prodigal_Son1]

Or perhaps they feel it isn’t their jurisdiction.

Is that speculation, or based on a statement?

 

[Gricken]

Gun free zones are a noble idea. But if nobody is there to enforce it, it’s like that sign that says “please don’t step on the grass”

 

[scipio337]

Oh I get it. If I have a “assualt weapon” it means I don’t have faith.

My daughter had her first reconcilliation in November, and I went with her to reconcilliation this weekend. I asked the priest if I had sinned, owning “assault rifles”, high capacity magazines, and differing the Cardinal’s position in his blog.

His response was “Christ said it is not what is from without that corrupts, it is what comes from within”.

 

[Gricken]

My daughter had her first reconcilliation in November, and I went with her to reconcilliation this weekend. I asked the priest if I had sinned, owning “assault rifles”, high capacity magazines, and differing the Cardinal’s position in his blog.

His response was “Christ said it is not what is from without that corrupts, it is what comes from within”.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So absence of evidence is evidence of absence?

How do you know that?

Evidence please.

How do you know that some feel that it is simply beyond their expertise?

Evidence please.

We are all to live by our faith formed conscience. The Church will not leave us as orphans and would give guidance. Anything else is through a biased eye to maintain a personal view, in my opinion.

Where are the bishops who do not speak on the issue, by saying, ‘it’s simply beyond my expertise?’ Even that cannot be produced. Some apply their silence to mean something to support their view,

 

[Gricken]

We are all to live by our faith formed conscience. The Church will not leave us as orphans and would give guidance. Anything else is through a biased eye to maintain a personal view, in my opinion.

Where are the bishops who do not speak on the issue, by saying, ‘it’s simply beyond my expertise?’ Even that cannot be produced. Some apply their silence to mean something to support their view,

Their silence means they support the other view? Isn’t that putting words in somebody’s mouth?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

We are all to live by our faith formed conscience. The Church will not leave us as orphans and would give guidance. Anything else is through a biased eye to maintain a personal view, in my opinion.

So as long as some Bishops advocate Same-Sex marriage or abortion or birth control - then those specific topics are up to each individual Catholic to decide for themselves. Right?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Start another topic on another thread so you can decide if you agree with the bishops on all things? You don’t have an idea of your own positions thus far?

So if the bishops don’t present a unified front for …say … intrinsic evils as stated in the Catechism … then it is okay to disobey the Catechism?

Show me where the unified USCCB represents this authority on there own merits on all topics.

You asked a vague question. How do I know if I agree with ‘everything’ he says? Start a thread with a specific topic and we’ll discuss it. This thread has a specific topic and we’re supposed to stay with it in each thread.

I can’t play hypotheticals. As for the Catechism, it seems it’s open to interpretation in some instances. If you read the Cardinal’s article, you’ll see he addresses the Catechism on this topic. Do you agree with his guidance in that respect?

There are links throughout these threads, Please feel free to read through, and catch up.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…
You seem to cast doubt of police, when you say, ‘finally get there, if ever.’ The same doubt applies to these ‘armed’ people when we see mass shootings going unanswered. …

Not cast doubt. I understand the law. Please review

• Warren vs DC
• Castle Rock vs Gonzales
• Riss vs New York

There are numerous other cases as precedent establishing-

The police are under no obligation to respond to a call. There is no recourse if they don’t. Although actually, I was implying them arriving prior to you or your loved ones being killed vice never.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So as long as some Bishops advocate Same-Sex marriage or abortion or birth control - then those specific topics are up to each individual Catholic to decide for themselves. Right?

You said that, I didn’t.

 

[Gricken]

How about from now on we all stop assuming what they think, I vote we take a stance that they are neutral on this subject until proven otherwise. That way we can’t try and claim the silent bishops support us without proof. It should fear this up quite a bit.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Where are the bishops who do not speak on the issue, by saying, ‘it’s simply beyond my expertise?’ Even that cannot be produced. Some apply their silence to mean something to support their view,

Where are the Bishops CLAIMING expertise?

Dolan hasn’t even displayed a salient grasp of the facts:

Mass shootings are NOT on the rise and “assault weapons” contribute a clear minority to gun murders.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Their silence means they support the other view? Isn’t that putting words in somebody’s mouth?

Show me where a bishop has stated that it’s something they prefer not to speak on. I see the Cardinal speak publicly, referring to the Holy See, the Catechism, and the bishops, but I don’t see any dissenting voices. Do you think that bishops aren’t aware of what each other states, or when a document is produced that states it represents them?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

You said that, I didn’t.

Ah, but what DO you say about that?

Or should I discern your silence for myself?

You know- like you do for the Bishops.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No. If the constitution defines the roll of the government, and the Bill of Rights enumerates specific rights reserved to the people which the government is not allowed to infringe upon

Free Speech, Assembly, Freedom of Religion

Then no, under the US system of government the government does not have the right to infringe on my or your or other citizens ability to keep and bear arms.

Catholics are not obligated to everything secular men write.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Show me where a bishop has stated that it’s something they prefer not to speak on. I see the Cardinal speak publicly, referring to the Holy See, the Catechism, and the bishops, but I don’t see any dissenting voices. Do you think that bishops aren’t aware of what each other states, or when a document is produced that states it represents them?

So by that rationale - infallibility of the Magisterium lies solely in the unified agreement of Bishops on prudential judgements.

No?

Yes?

 

[Irish_Cabbie]

Ah yes, that invaluable term “law abiding citizen”. Which really means anybody before they commit a murder.

Adam Lanza was a “law abiding citizen” until last December 13.

Your point being what? That the government should govern as if all citizens are potential Adam Lanzas?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Where are the Bishops CLAIMING expertise?

Dolan hasn’t even displayed a salient grasp of the facts:

Mass shootings are NOT on the rise and “assault weapons” contribute a clear minority to gun murders.

None have, and no one has stated that.

That’s a matter of opinion, and I disagree.

It was just coincidence that so many happened in a short period of time?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

None have, and no one has stated that.

That’s a matter of opinion, and I disagree.

It was just coincidence that so many happened in a short period of time?

No. That’s a matter of fact.

What period of time does a “trend” make - in your … “opinion”?

 

[Gricken]

Show me where a bishop has stated that it’s something they prefer not to speak on. I see the Cardinal speak publicly, referring to the Holy See, the Catechism, and the bishops, but I don’t see any dissenting voices. Do you think that bishops aren’t aware of what each other states, or when a document is produced that states it represents them?

… You want a quote of a bishop staying silent? It defeats the purpose of “staying silent” this is why I said we should just agree that (for the sake of this debate) the silent bishops are neutral on this subject, that way we can’t try and appeal to a “silent majority”