Cardinal Dolan's Response to the Al Smith Dinner Backlash

[dixieagle]

I just want to say I admire Cardinal Dolan an awful lot, as our spiritual leader he has a great responsibility, didn’t he ask us for our prayers concerning this issue. Didn’t someone in the Gospel ask Jesus why he ate with sinners? It seems to me given tne choice Cardinal Dolan had, he leaned to the side of Charity. I think we can learn a lesson from this mans courage, and maybe by his example he can reach even Mr. Obama. Cardinal Dolan I pray for you, and by your example you can soften the heart of Mr. Obama and all the the evil culture of death in this world.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I agree. And i Hope and pray that Cardinal Dolan will take the opportunity to completely follow Jesus’ example and ask Obama to sin no more:

The Holy Gospel According to St. John; Ch. 8
"[1] And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. [2] And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. [3] And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, [4] And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. [5] Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

[6] And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. [7] When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] [Latin] [8] And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. [9] But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. [10] Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

[11] Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee.** Go, and now sin no more.**"

 

[MarMax]

I’d write a response, but I would just bungle it in all likelihood.

Instead, I shall just put forth the ever eloquent Michael Voris:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHYyFwXICiM

 

[Tigg]

I’d write a response, but I would just bungle it in all likelihood.

Instead, I shall just put forth the ever eloquent Michael Voris:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHYyFwXICiM

I’m not his biggest fan as his style can be grating, but in every aspect he NAILS it this time.

The two points I believe critical are: How are non-Catholics, who are beginning to understand the danger of this administration’s actions to themselves, going to perceive the warm welcome? “Well, if the Catholics have no problem with this…perhaps it’s not as bad as we thought,” and the second point is the Obama advantage of using this public opportunity to confuse Catholics and diminish the threat in the minds of those not really paying attention.

As far as softening Obama’s heart at this gay affair in the hopes of an conversion, I would consider it naivete in light of his previous actions, and there is also scripture which warns (as Ecclesiastes does) that there is an appointed time for everything - a time for every affair under the heavens. Less than three months away from an election that could determine further persecution for the Church, is this the “time” for showing polite regard for one’s enemy?

The mixed message of this dinner invitation is absolutely chilling to me.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

the second point is the Obama advantage of using this public opportunity to confuse Catholics and diminish the threat in the minds of those not really paying attention.

The function is strictly social. Neither Obama nor Romney is going to use the banquet as a opportunity for a campaign speech.

is this the “time” for showing polite regard for one’s enemy?

Catholics ought always to show polite regard for their “enemies.”

The mixed message of this dinner invitation is absolutely chilling to me.

Okay, but I don’t see the mixed message. There’ll be no socializing mixed with political speechifying at the banquet. Both invitees know that.

 

[Tigg]

The function is strictly social. Neither Obama nor Romney is going to use the banquet as a opportunity for a campaign speech…….

I don’t see the mixed message. There’ll be no socializing mixed with political speechifying at the banquet. Both invitees know that

Doesn’t matter at all to those undiscerning souls who lack political savvy (some would suggest the majority of the American public.) The image, in this instance, of sitting down at table with one’s enemies while drinking the finest wine sends a subliminal message which can suggest a type of capitulation and/or reconciliation.

Catholics ought always to show polite regard for their “enemies.”

Are we getting into the “real vs false charity” argument again?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Doesn’t matter at all to those undiscerning souls who lack political savvy (some would suggest the majority of the American public.) The image, in this instance, of sitting down at table with one’s enemies while drinking the finest wine sends a subliminal message which can suggest a type of capitulation and/or reconciliation.

The Cardinal is sitting down with two political candidates, both of whom may well be his Eminence’s “enemies,” but that is hardly capitulation to either the Democratic or GOP platforms.

The majority of American voters won’t care. Do you think that voters in Minot, ND or Orlando, FL give a dam about some NYC banquet? Do you think it’s going to be headlined in The New York Times?

Opposition IMO is coming from those more-Catholic-than-the-Cardinal folks rather than from those who know what the banquet is - which is a banquet and not a political forum.

 

[MarMax]

Mr. O,

Imagine, if you will, a photo of Hitler and Pope Pius XII together, smiling, and probably with arms around each other or otherwise in that “photo op” handshake pose.

What would the understanding be to the majority of people who viewed said photo both then and now? Not as you’ve described, even if the situation was identical.

Jesus didn’t take a break with sinners to rub elbows. He didn’t sit down and dine with Pilate or Herod for the lulz.

This situation is outright a campaign opportunity for Obama and he will milk it of everything he can in the seeking of the Church’s destruction.

The war began officially on 1 August. It was ratified by SCOTUS prior. What we are seeing is no different than Bush having sat and eaten with Osama… but instead, we get the President of the USCCB eating with Obama. Same same in the whole scheme of things: disgusting and sends a horrible message.

 

[Joe_5859]

When I first found out about this, it was a simple reporting of the fact that Obama and Romney were both invited to this dinner. I thought it was a good idea. Only afterwards did I come across the backlash.

The candidates are not being “honored” in any way. There is no conferral of any awards. It’s just a dinner.

 

[MarMax]

When I first found out about this, it was a simple reporting of the fact that Obama and Romney were both invited to this dinner. I thought it was a good idea. Only afterwards did I come across the backlash.

The candidates are not being “honored” in any way. There is no conferral of any awards. It’s just a dinner.

…and Hell is just a sauna…

It’s not JUST a dinner. It’s a dinner at which the enemy #1 of the Church, in America, will be speaking.

Is it not supposed to be an honor to be in the presence of a cleric? Of course. St. Polycarp didn’t even untie his own sandals he was so revered as the bishop of Smyrna.

This provides Obama, and Romney , the chance to have credence lent to their campaigning.

Please see my prior post of Michael Voris explaining the issue.

 

[Joe_5859]

…and Hell is just a sauna…

It’s not JUST a dinner. It’s a dinner at which the enemy #1 of the Church, in America, will be speaking.

Is it not supposed to be an honor to be in the presence of a cleric? Of course. St. Polycarp didn’t even untie his own sandals he was so revered as the bishop of Smyrna.

This provides Obama, and Romney , the chance to have credence lent to their campaigning.

Please see my prior post of Michael Voris explaining the issue.

Well, if it’s between Cardinal Dolan and Michael Voris, I’ll be siding with Cardinal Dolan. (No offense to Michael Voris.)

Certainly, politicians like to seize every opportunity to further their campaign. But how does an event where both are invited give them that opportunity? That would be like a candidate running ads about how great they are because they were invited to an official presidential debate. Should we be scandalized because both candidates are invited to a debate?

I feel like the only people being “scandalized” here are Catholics who disagree with Obama and aren’t voting for him anyway. By definition, that’s not really scandal. According to the Catechism, scandal is “an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil”. I don’t see how any reasonable person would construe this invitation as some sort of ecclesiastical endorsement and therefore choose to support evil. It’s not as though Cardinal Dolan’s fierce opposition to the HHS mandate is a secret.

 

[elgar]

I couldn’t agree more! Cardinal O’Connor would not invite Clinton in '96 for his EXACT SAME STANCE on abortion. And then Clinton had not pulled half of what this President has. Maybe Cardinal Dolan thinks somehow this will soften the President’s stance on the Mandate. I am not at all sold on that idea, especially since Bishop Lori and his Committee has met with the Administration several times without one ounce of satisfaction. He says they just will not give an inch, even after the Committee has offered many solutions.

I really think with all due respect (and I do respect Cardinal Dolan a great deal!) he is sending a very very confusing message to Christians. Even certain Protestant groups are bewilldered by this.

Continue to PRAY.

I was leaning toward Cardinal Dolan’s reasoning until I read that BIll Clinton was not invited in '96. I also read somewhere that John Kerry was also not invited, so the tradition has been altered. You know the press will misrepresent all this cajoling. I remember how sickening it was when Cardinal Egan went along for the photo ops and more at the last event.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Are we getting into the “real vs false charity” argument again?

Where did Christ qualify between ‘real vs false charity’, please?

 

[Dirt]

Where did Christ qualify between ‘real vs false charity’, please?

Actually he did not to my humble knowledge, but He did give us an example of how to deal with the enemies of Faith:
Gospel According to Saint Matthew; Chapter 23
"[33] You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? [34] Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: [35] That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.

[35] That upon you may come: Not that they should suffer more than their own sins justly deserved; but that the justice of God should now fall upon them with such a final vengeance, once for all, as might comprise all the different kinds of judgments and punishments, that had at any time before been inflicted for the shedding of just blood.

[36] Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. [37] Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? [38] Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. [39] For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

True Charity is the Salvation of Souls. Correcting a sinner is Charity.
Saint John the Baptist performing True Charity:

Gospel According to Saint Matthew; Chapter 3
“6] And were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. [7] And seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come? [8] Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of penance. [9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. [10] For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire.
[11] I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire. [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Scripture from: drbo.org/index.htm

 

[ORD_Man]

I’d write a response, but I would just bungle it in all likelihood.

Instead, I shall just put forth the ever eloquent Michael Voris:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHYyFwXICiM

Excellent presentation…thank you for the link!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Actually he did not to my humble knowledge, but He did give us an example of how to deal with the enemies of Faith:
Gospel According to Saint Matthew; Chapter 23
"[33] You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? [34] Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: [35] That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.

[35] That upon you may come: Not that they should suffer more than their own sins justly deserved; but that the justice of God should now fall upon them with such a final vengeance, once for all, as might comprise all the different kinds of judgments and punishments, that had at any time before been inflicted for the shedding of just blood.

[36] Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. [37] Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? [38] Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. [39] For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

True Charity is the Salvation of Souls. Correcting a sinner is Charity.
Saint John the Baptist performing True Charity:

Gospel According to Saint Matthew; Chapter 3
“6] And were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. [7] And seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come? [8] Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of penance. [9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. [10] For now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that doth not yield good fruit, shall be cut down, and cast into the fire.
[11] I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire. [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Scripture from: drbo.org/index.htm

Nope…doesn’t work for me. I see Cardinal Dolan as one of the wise men He sent to us. Cardinal Dolan is doing the very same thing Christ did in His time.

Christ also had people point out how they viewed some of the things He did might be open to scandal and we know what He had to say about that, and that He did as He taught.

 

[ORD_Man]

Nope…doesn’t work for me. I see Cardinal Dolan as one of the wise men He sent to us. Cardinal Dolan is doing the very same thing Christ did in His time.

Christ also had people point out how they viewed some of the things He did might be open to scandal and we know what He had to say about that, and that He did as He taught.

So what’s the end state you expect to achieve from the Cardinal’s “wisdom” regarding this dinner? What justifies, at a minimum, the appearance of scandal and inconsistent messaging? or possibly risking this being viewed as an endorsement by less knowledgeable voters? I know the President expects to get favorable publicity, but how does this benefit the Church?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So what’s the end state you expect to achieve from the Cardinal’s “wisdom” regarding this dinner? What justifies, at a minimum, the appearance of scandal and inconsistent messaging? or possibly risking this being viewed as an endorsement by less knowledgeable voters? I know the President expects to get favorable publicity, but how does this benefit the Church?

I expect Christ works through the Cardinal’s action.

Was Christ’s similar actions justified? He taught the Apostles, and they taught their successors, and so on and so on.

Was the Pope’s receiving the Obamas at the Vatican an endorsement in the eyes of those less knowledgeable? That was very much in the public eye. Was those less knowledgeable affected by Christ’s similar dining with the sinners of His time?

The less knowledgeable know through the same media that the Cardinal filed a lawsuit against this administration. They also know that lawsuit is still pending. Even with a pending lawsuit the Cardinal is demonstrating Christian charity; or doing good to those that oppose his views, or enemies if you prefer another term. That’s what Christ said do. He never taught to ‘protect His Church.’ He said He would do that and I have faith He will.

Is the Church only supposed to exhibit Christian charity for it’s own benefit? Are Christians only to exhibit Christian charity for their own benefit?

Obama will receive no more benefit than any other attendee. In fact, by his attendance, and Romney’s, their supporters will open their wallets to the charity fundraiser that this dinner is about.

In my opinion, the scandal is being cast towards the charitable actions of a man of the Church; not only cast, but stirred into a much bigger thing than it is.

 

[MidnightSun12]

Catholics ought always to show polite regard for their “enemies.”

I believe Catholics should love their enemies, but I don’t recall hearing anything about being “polite” to them. Fear of offending and political correctness are one of the greatest plagues in the Church today and I think we need be trying to eliminate it, not to set a further precedent for it.
Rich Olszewski:

Opposition IMO is coming from those more-Catholic-than-the-Cardinal folks rather than from those who know what the banquet is - which is a banquet and not a political forum.

Keep in mind that when Christ had dinner with sinners, the purpose of the dinner was solely to save souls from hell. If policy is not going to be discussed during this banquet, then how exactly is the Cardinal going to help a man like Obama turn from his evil ways?

In some ways, this dinner would be better if it were a political forum. At least that way there would be an opportunity for the Church to confront evil head on (which is what evil fears the most)…

 

[yukonbrad]

I believe Catholics should love their enemies, but I don’t recall hearing anything about being “polite” to them. Fear of offending and political correctness are one of the greatest plagues in the Church today and I think we need be trying to eliminate it, not to set a further precedent for it.

Keep in mind that when Christ had dinner with sinners, the purpose of the dinner was solely to save souls from hell. If policy is not going to be discussed during this banquet, then how exactly is the Cardinal going to help a man like Obama turn from his evil ways?

In some ways, this dinner would be better if it were a political forum. At least that way there would be an opportunity for the Church to confront evil head on (which is what evil fears the most)…

To be honest I think evil is laughing at us as we destroy a man of God for an act of christian charity.