Cardinal Kasper asks prayers for Synod, says 'a battle is going on' [CC]

[TheFraggle]

When a sin no longer becomes a sin is a day when Hell freezes over.

 

[PTL]

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen…

St. Michael the Archangel, defend the Holy Catholic Church. Defend her against the wickedness that twists the truth of Christ. By the power of God, cast out all the evil spirits in the coming Synod, and make the outcome holy. Amen and Amen!!

 

[JimG]

Many of you are thinking very black and white without seeing the possibilities in-between.
There are indeed ways to make accepted changes and still follow doctrine.

For divorced/remarried people to get communion, for example.
One idea that immediately comes to my mind is…to re-look at the valid reasons for annulments and see if the interpretations are as “merciful” (to use the pope’s word) as they could be and if there is room for improvement and widening within the latitude there.

That’s just one of many possible ideas that would ease thousands of people’s pain, allow them to get communion again, or even keep them in the church.

.

I agree. But all of the proposals I have seen mentioned have proposed an entirely distinct process from annulment.
I hope they do look again at the annulment process.

 

[McCall1981]

Many of you are thinking very black and white without seeing the possibilities in-between.
There are indeed ways to make accepted changes and still follow doctrine.

For divorced/remarried people to get communion, for example.
One idea that immediately comes to my mind is…to re-look at the valid reasons for annulments and see if the interpretations are as “merciful” (to use the pope’s word) as they could be and if there is room for improvement and widening within the latitude there.

That’s just one of many possible ideas that would ease thousands of people’s pain, allow them to get communion again, or even keep them in the church.

.

Its true that there are some changes that could be made in this area that would not violate doctrine, like changing administrative rules in the annulment process, or examining the role of faith in the validity of marriage, etc.

Personally I think any of those would be a very bad idea, but they would be worlds better than a change that objectively contradicts doctrine.

 

[ProVobis]

Not that I’m pushing the idea, but it seems confession would be a higher priority.

“The forgiveness of our sins is not something we can give ourselves. … the Christian community is the place where the Spirit is made present, who renews hearts in the love of God and makes all of the brethren one thing in Christ Jesus. That is why it is not enough to ask the Lord for forgiveness in one’s own mind and heart, but why instead it is necessary humbly and trustingly to confess one’s sins to a minister of the Church. In the celebration of this Sacrament, the priest represents not only God but also the whole community, who sees itself in the weakness of each of its members, who listens and is moved by his repentance, and who is reconciled with him, which cheers him up and accompanies him on the path of conversion and human and Christian growth. One might say: I confess only to God. Yes, you can say to God “forgive me” and say your sins, but our sins are also committed against the brethren, and against the Church. That is why it is necessary to ask pardon of the Church, and of the brethren in the person of the priest.” - Pope Francis, Feb. 19, 2014

 

[Tigg]

Many of you are thinking very black and white without seeing the possibilities in-between.
There are indeed ways to make accepted changes and still follow doctrine.

For divorced/remarried people to get communion, for example.

Have you read the threads and articles with all the resources to church documents and followed the cardinals theological arguments (as much as we are able, anyway.) Have you read the book which directly addresses the difficulties the bishops are having with Kasper’s proposal? Can you understand that those who you say only think in black and white are listening to church leaders that a teaching coming directly from Divine Law (such as marriage) cannot be changed and to do so would be so huge that no other doctrine in the future could not be overturned.

One idea that immediately comes to my mind is…to re-look at the valid reasons for annulments and see if the interpretations are as “merciful” (to use the pope’s word) as they could be and if there is room for improvement and widening within the latitude there.

Yes, this is what many of us are praying for because we are listening to the words of the shepherds who say the disciple does indeed define this very doctrine and there is no possibility for the Church to change the indissolubility of marriage.

That’s just one of many possible ideas that would ease thousands of people’s pain, allow them to get communion again, or even keep them in the church.

What *are *the others? I’ve heard of none except those which run up against a brick wall in the face of the truth as taught by Christ and permanently upheld by the Church.

 

[McCall1981]

Have you read the threads and articles with all the resources to church documents and followed the cardinals theological arguments (as much as we are able, anyway.) Have you read the book which directly addresses the difficulties the bishops are having with Kasper’s proposal? Can you understand that those who you say only think in black and white are listening to church leaders that a teaching coming directly from Divine Law (such as marriage) cannot be changed and to do so would be so huge that no other doctrine in the future could not be overturned.

Yes, this is what many of us are praying for because we are listening to the words of the shepherds who say the disciple does indeed define this very doctrine and there is no possibility for the Church to change the indissolubility of marriage.

**What *are ***the others? I’ve heard of none except those which run up against a brick wall in the face of the truth as taught by Christ and permanently upheld by the Church.

IMO, there are two kinds of legitimate changes they could make.

First would be changes to the administrative process of annulment (like not requiring a second witness, or having the process take place completely in a local diocese instead of partially in Rome, making it free, etc).

Second would be clearing up something like the role of faith in contracting a valid marriage in the first place (this, at least potentially, could be done in a perfectly legitimate way).

I think the important distinction is this: The changes have to be in the area of how we determine validity in the first place, because this process is essentially man-made, administrative rules.

The changes can’t be in the area of once we know there is already a valid first marriage, we find a way to give the person communion anyway. The “penitential process” proposal falls into this category because it presumes that we already know there is a valid first marriage.

Don’t get me wrong, I think making those kinds of changes to the annulment process, examining faith etc, would be a very bad idea, but they wouldn’t contradict doctrine. That’s how I see it.