Cardinal Kasper: 'Growing Majority' in Synod Support Divorce-Remarriage Proposal

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Majorities grow, then wane. In the end, “some” may be severely limited.
 
Card Napier, who has been very firmly against Card Kasper’s proposals said on twitter: "…while it is possible that some factions are trying to adapt to the opinion of the world, the majority when to remain firmly with the truth”.
 
I just have to go out and say it: I don’t trust what Cardinal Kasper says. It doesn’t square with much of any of what probably 90% of the other bishops who have spoken publicly have said.

Also it does not square with my “simple” and admittedly unsophisticated understanding of the faith. It flatly does not resonate.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I just have to go out and say it: I don’t trust what Cardinal Kasper says. It doesn’t square with much of any of what probably 90% of the other bishops who have spoken publicly have said.

Also it does not square with my “simple” and admittedly unsophisticated understanding of the faith. It flatly does not resonate.
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Agree and thanks for saying it. When you read the interview he actually states that it’s a “feeling” that he has since there’s been no vote.
 
patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2014/10/cardinal-kasper-african-catholics-shouldnt-tell-us-what-we-have-to-do-at-the-synod/

In regards to this same interview:

"In a stunning new interview, German Cardinal Walter Kasper has said that African Catholics “should not tell us too much what we have to do” and admitted that they are not being listened to at the Vatican’s current synod as it takes up matters including homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, and family life.

Kasper has been the main advocate for admitting to communion Catholics who are divorced and remarried—and thus living in what the Church, following the words of Christ himself, considers adultery. This would constitute an act of grave vandalism to Catholic doctrine and a serious failure in the Church’s pastoral outreach.

It would also require the silencing of the voices of Catholic leaders outside of Europe and North America, especially those from Africa, who have a very different way of seeing the tangled issues of divorce, remarriage, and homosexuality. In the interview Kasper tries to dismiss the opinions of African bishops (which need not be accepted in whole to be taken seriously) as the product of mere taboo:

Africa is totally different from the West. Also Asian and Muslim countries, they’re very different, especially about gays. You can’t speak about this with Africans and people of Muslim countries. It’s not possible. It’s a taboo. For us, we say we ought not to discriminate, we don’t want to discriminate in certain respects.

That’s right. Not only Africans, but also Christians from Muslim-majority countries—the ones being killed and displaced by the thousands and thus uniquely close to the cross that stands at the center of all Christian reflection—must go unheeded. More from the interview:

But are African participants listened to in this regard?

No, the majority of them [who hold these views won’t speak about them].

They’re not listened to?

In Africa of course [their views are listened to], where it’s a taboo.

What has changed for you, regarding the methodology of this synod?

I think in the end there must be a general line in the Church, general criteria, but then the questions of Africa we cannot solve. There must be space also for the local bishops’ conferences to solve their problems but I’d say with Africa it’s impossible [for us to solve]. But they should not tell us too much what we have to do.
 
Cardinal Kasper’s comments about African bishops and people make me rather uncomfortable. They are very unfortunate.
 
McCall1981 said:
patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2014/10/cardinal-kasper-african-catholics-shouldnt-tell-us-what-we-have-to-do-at-the-synod/

In regards to this same interview:

"In a stunning new interview, German Cardinal Walter Kasper has said that African Catholics “should not tell us too much what we have to do” and admitted that they are not being listened to at the Vatican’s current synod as it takes up matters including homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, and family life.

Kasper has been the main advocate for admitting to communion Catholics who are divorced and remarried—and thus living in what the Church, following the words of Christ himself, considers adultery. This would constitute an act of grave vandalism to Catholic doctrine and a serious failure in the Church’s pastoral outreach.

It would also require the silencing of the voices of Catholic leaders outside of Europe and North America, especially those from Africa, who have a very different way of seeing the tangled issues of divorce, remarriage, and homosexuality. In the interview Kasper tries to dismiss the opinions of African bishops (which need not be accepted in whole to be taken seriously) as the product of mere taboo:

Africa is totally different from the West. Also Asian and Muslim countries, they’re very different, especially about gays. You can’t speak about this with Africans and people of Muslim countries. It’s not possible. It’s a taboo. For us, we say we ought not to discriminate, we don’t want to discriminate in certain respects.

That’s right. Not only Africans, but also Christians from Muslim-majority countries—the ones being killed and displaced by the thousands and thus uniquely close to the cross that stands at the center of all Christian reflection—must go unheeded. More from the interview:

But are African participants listened to in this regard?

No, the majority of them [who hold these views won’t speak about them].

They’re not listened to?

In Africa of course [their views are listened to], where it’s a taboo.

What has changed for you, regarding the methodology of this synod?

I think in the end there must be a general line in the Church, general criteria, but then the questions of Africa we cannot solve. There must be space also for the local bishops’ conferences to solve their problems but I’d say with Africa it’s impossible [for us to solve]. But they should not tell us too much what we have to do.
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Wow. This guy is unbelievable. My question is why a person wouldn’t rather just leave the Church and find a religion that is suited to their own personal views than try to foist the views of society on to the Church?
 
Hopefully he will essentially ostracize himself from the synod if he continues to speak in such an ill-advised manner.
 
Michael1978 said:
Hopefully he will essentially ostracize himself from the synod if he continues to speak in such an ill-advised manner.
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This is exactly my hope as well. These kinds of comments would seemingly have to undermine whatever support he does have from the other Synod members.

It certainly is not playing well in Catholic media:

patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/10/15/these-africans-kasper-reverses-progressive-dogma/

"Breathtaking condescension from a Western Bishop, whose German church is dwindling and financial ruin, toward the African bishops whose pews and seminaries are indisputably overflowing and joyous.

In some ways, it’s like a mask coming off. Kasper is an openly progressive Catholic who holds opinions that sometimes skirt along the very thin membrane between authentic Catholic teaching and something not-quite in line. He is dependably of times and trends, and most assuredly conforms to the rules of politically correct thought and manners.

Most of his admirers run along a similar vein, and yet I just watched a progressive Catholic defend Kasper, and couldn’t help but see the irony: the very people who have inculcated within society the dogma that criticism of any culture (except the Western culture-and-its-traditions) is anathema, when faced with a bit of opposition, are quick to do a complete 180 and suggest that the dissenting culture lacks sufficient enlightenment and need not be listened to, or taken seriously."
 
YoungTradCath said:
Cardinal Kasper’s comments about African bishops and people make me rather uncomfortable. They are very unfortunate.
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I read the linked article earlier today on First Things. It is beyond unfortunate. For him to lump African Catholic, Asian Catholics and Catholics in predominantly Muslim countries into a group that has less voice in issues of the universal Church really distresses me. Up to now, Pope Francis has given Cardinal Kasper a predominant role in the synod. Hopefully, this latest interview will serve as a call for more moderation.

What a sad thing to think that the synod, while reaching out to certain groups of Catholics (homosexuals and those divorced and civilly married), pushed away whole nations.
 
Michael1978 said:
Wow. This guy is unbelievable. My question is why a person wouldn’t rather just leave the Church and find a religion that is suited to their own personal views than try to foist the views of society on to the Church?
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I wonder that too.
 
With all respect for the Cardinal and for the Eastern Orthodox, I believe the Cardinal’s view of the role of the Bishops is more in line with the Eastern Orthodox than the Catholic Church. I read that he believes that a Bishop’s loyalty and teaching should be primarily to address the local diocese and not the whole world. Meaning, he thinks that discipline should be allowed to be regionalized.

I believe mercy is important when dealing with Catholics outside of communion with the Church. But allowing them to commit Sacrilege isn’t mercy. It’s a kin to the head of the US Episcopal Church saying that St Paul was wrong regarding his teachings.

We must pray for Catholics being influenced by the modernism heresy. :gopray:
 
Corki said:
I read the linked article earlier today on First Things. It is beyond unfortunate. For him to lump African Catholic, Asian Catholics and Catholics in predominantly Muslim countries into a group that has less voice in issues of the universal Church really distresses me. Up to now, Pope Francis has given Cardinal Kasper a predominant role in the synod. Hopefully, this latest interview will serve as a call for more moderation.

What a sad thing to think that the synod, while reaching out to certain groups of Catholics (homosexuals and those divorced and civilly married), pushed away whole nations.
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It is distressing, yes. They have huge evangelical potential and yet it would seem that they are still nothing but an afterthought. I thought we had moved away from such ideas.
 
Cardinal Kasper sounds like one of those heretical bishops from the early days of the Church, screaming his head off at synods and other councils.
 
I think everyone in this thread should tread lightly when it comes to talking ill of a bishop.

Despite his views, despite what he might do, as long as he holds that office we shouldn’t speak too harshly of him.
 
SpeakInSilence said:
I think everyone in this thread should tread lightly when it comes to talking ill of a bishop.

Despite his views, despite what he might do, as long as he holds that office we shouldn’t speak too harshly of him.
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Two people here have object to what he said and were able to restrict their opinions to what was said. I see two other who direct their comment toward the Bishop personally. The rules here really aren’t that hard to follow, are they. His fellow Bishops seem quite capable of speaking and disagreeing without getting personal.

As to his role in the synod, as it is not over, it might be premature to conjecture about what will come of it and what kind of synthesis will be reached.
 
SpeakInSilence said:
I think everyone in this thread should tread lightly when it comes to talking ill of a bishop.

Despite his views, despite what he might do, as long as he holds that office we shouldn’t speak too harshly of him.
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True. It’s actually scandalous to diss the Church in such a way in a public place.

Lets wait and see if Card. Kasper has actually crossed any lines before we start accusing heresy. What he is expressing regarding the plight of this particular group of people, has actually been discussed at the ground level of the Church from what I personally know… for at least the last 30 years. By ground level I mean diocesan Parish Priests. (I have an Uncle and cousin in these positions) Not the hoi polloi who fancy themselves experts.

There has never been any suggestion that the rule regarding second marriages be completely abandoned. The discussion revolves around the true validity of the first marriage in the eyes of the Church. The state of the person or couple entering into the sacrament of marriage without true faith or mature regard for the meaning of marriage. This is the issue.

The genuine sorrow at those peoples plight is quite strong in within the general clergy. The men who are daily ministering to the needs of their parishioners. Listening to some in the hoi polloi, you’d thing that the sacrament of the Eucharist were akin to a nice dessert reward for being a good boy or girl rather than a staple of faith, food for the suffering soul and the Bread of life. Who of us could genuinely fail to be moved by someone starving in our midst and having no resolution to their suffering?
 
Does the Holy Father give any indication as to whether he backs Cardinal Kasper’s views on this matter?
 
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