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Cardinal Kasper: Sacraments for remarried divorcees only in "special cases"
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ProVobis
Guest
Continue to go to Mass and bring up the kids in a Catholic environment as best they can. The Church hasn’t condemned them to Hell.
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Invictus_88
Guest
That this issue has caused such debate and disagreement even within the Church raises some questions, surely, about the standard of catechesis in these countries?
I can only resolve that my children are blessed with a better understanding of the sacraments.
I can only resolve that my children are blessed with a better understanding of the sacraments.
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kate_jackson
Guest
It is a heinous mess that lies about the identity of people and asks you to believe the lie when you know it is a lie.
What do you mean by this ?
I have two divorces very close to me in my family, involving four main players, obviously. All but one were Catholic, so it wasn’t the unfortunate situation of conversion and difficulty (which greatly pains me because it can seem like a closed door)
In each marriage one partner stayed faithful to the marriage, one person in silent patience. That person’s faithfulness stands out to me as a great gift of love that gives me strength every day to love even those who hurt me, out of love for them.
The other faithful partner lost his entire family, the childhood of his children, the Church ignores him and even though he has asked repeatedly for help. His spouse lives “brother and sister” in a second marriage, and while that may seem to many a great sacrifice, it is an affront to the actuality of a marriage that exists with a human being that is living and has no one to come home to, no one to say hello to in the morning. This is despite numerous declarations from the Church in favor of validity.
There needs to be attention first to abandoned, faithful spouses specifically in the manner Paul uses of excommunication, if necessary. The only merciful thing is to bring people to their senses, anything less is an injustice.
There then needs to be attention to those coming into the Church with an incorrect understanding of marriage. I don’t know what this solution is, probably brother and sister works here, unless there is a spouse fighting for the valid marriage.
Lastly, there needs to be a ministry to the divorced and remarried to rehabilitate their understanding of marriage so that they desire contrition, confession and communion.
We ask perpetual abstinence of our gay brothers and sisters. Why is this so hard to do for the divorced and remarried crowd?
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RPRPsych
Guest
It is a heinous mess that lies about the identity of people and asks you to believe the lie when you know it is a lie.
I have two divorces very close to me in my family, involving four main players, obviously. All but one were Catholic, so it wasn’t the unfortunate situation of conversion and difficulty (which greatly pains me because it can seem like a closed door
In each marriage one partner stayed faithful to the marriage, one person in silent patience. That person’s faithfulness stands out to me as a great gift of love that gives me strength every day to love even those who hurt me, out of love for them.
The other faithful partner lost his entire family, the childhood of his children, the Church ignores him and even though he has asked repeatedly for help. His spouse lives “brother and sister” in a second marriage, and while that may seem to many a great sacrifice, it is an affront to the actuality of a marriage that exists with a human being that is living and has no one to come home to, no one to say hello to in the morning. This is despite numerous declarations from the Church in favor of validity.
There needs to be attention first to abandoned, faithful spouses specifically in the manner Paul uses of excommunication, if necessary. The only merciful thing is to bring people to their senses, anything less is an injustice.
There then needs to be attention to those coming into the Church with an incorrect understanding of marriage. I don’t know what this solution is, probably brother and sister works here, unless there is a spouse fighting for the valid marriage.
Lastly, there needs to be a ministry to the divorced and remarried to rehabilitate their understanding of marriage so that they desire contrition, confession and communion.
We ask perpetual abstinence of our gay brothers and sisters. Why is this so hard to do for the divorced and remarried crowd?
It’s not hard to do. It’s just that our sex-obsessed modern world has taught people that they can have their cake and eat it too.
I’m not holding my breath for any changes in Church teaching. What we’ll get is probably a pastoral document, like the directives on the care of homosexuals. What we deserve is a stiff encyclical along the lines of Casti Connubii reaffirming Catholic teaching on marriage, and setting strict norms for pre-marital formation in place of, say, the 3-day eyewash that we have in my country, but I’m not holding my breath for that either.
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McCall1981
Guest
I completely agree. I wish we would get a stiff encyclical exactly like you say. But honestly, at this point, I would be more than happy to “settle” for a pastoral document as long as the teaching remains unchanged.
It’s not hard to do. It’s just that our sex-obsessed modern world has taught people that they can have their cake and eat it too.
I’m not holding my breath for any changes in Church teaching. What we’ll get is probably a pastoral document, like the directives on the care of homosexuals. What we deserve is a stiff encyclical along the lines of Casti Connubii reaffirming Catholic teaching on marriage, and setting strict norms for pre-marital formation in place of, say, the 3-day eyewash that we have in my country, but I’m not holding my breath for that either.
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kate_jackson
Guest
Yes…I see what you mean.It is a heinous mess that lies about the identity of people and asks you to believe the lie when you know it is a lie.
I have two divorces very close to me in my family, involving four main players, obviously. All but one were Catholic, so it wasn’t the unfortunate situation of conversion and difficulty (which greatly pains me because it can seem like a closed door
In each marriage one partner stayed faithful to the marriage, one person in silent patience. That person’s faithfulness stands out to me as a great gift of love that gives me strength every day to love even those who hurt me, out of love for them.
The other faithful partner lost his entire family, the childhood of his children, the Church ignores him and even though he has asked repeatedly for help. His spouse lives “brother and sister” in a second marriage, and while that may seem to many a great sacrifice, it is an affront to the actuality of a marriage that exists with a human being that is living and has no one to come home to, no one to say hello to in the morning. This is despite numerous declarations from the Church in favor of validity.
There needs to be attention first to abandoned, faithful spouses specifically in the manner Paul uses of excommunication, if necessary. The only merciful thing is to bring people to their senses, anything less is an injustice.
There then needs to be attention to those coming into the Church with an incorrect understanding of marriage. I don’t know what this solution is, probably brother and sister works here, unless there is a spouse fighting for the valid marriage.
Lastly, there needs to be a ministry to the divorced and remarried to rehabilitate their understanding of marriage so that they desire contrition, confession and communion.
We ask perpetual abstinence of our gay brothers and sisters. Why is this so hard to do for the divorced and remarried crowd?
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UbiCaritas15
Guest
Kate, the way I understand theology the indissolubility of marriage confirms the oneness of the Trinity. It confirms it, but it is a witness created by God himself to illuminate himself to the world. Just as the priesthood and monastic life bears witness to the eternal marriage supper to the Bridegroom. If those realities are challenged, it is no less a scandal than the Arian heresy.
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RPRPsych
Guest
I wonder (perhaps I’m just reaching) if Pope Francis’ “ecology of man” encyclical will deliver a good squelching to the “Catholics for gay marriage” crowd, given that he has framed that issue as “anthropological” in another book.
That said, given the massive attack by the secular world and politicians on marriage and the family - and the way in which our “separated brethren” have already caved in on contraception, divorce, and “abortion in limited circumstances”, this is an issue on which the Holy See should speak up. Pius XI, pray for us.
I think that’s what we’ll get. Even if an individual Cardinal chooses to voice an opinion, it is neither authoritative nor binding. The history of the Church is littered with bishops and cardinals who have compromised with worldly powers; none of them could void Christ’s promise to Peter.
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RPRPsych
Guest
Are you a theologian? That sounds like a very interesting - and original - viewpoint.
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UbiCaritas15
Guest
NahAre you a theologian? That sounds like a very interesting - and original - viewpoint.
I think it is mostly Ven Fulton Sheen and Scott Hahn. I’m just a mom and foodie. 
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RPRPsych
Guest
Must read more of them, then!Nah
(and I’m also an incurable foodie…
)
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UbiCaritas15
Guest
Three to Get Married is amazing!!! This should be required for all marriage prep courses!Must read more of them, then!
(and I’m also an incurable foodie…
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RPRPsych
Guest
I agree.
[rant]
I recall the abomination that was the “marriage preparatory course” my wife and I had to sit through…
- One session on Canon Law which made it clear that the poor deacon had no clue what an annulment was…
- One session from a “liberal” Catholic doctor. Nothing about NFP. Just a description of the menstrual cycle, which most of the girls slept through.
- One session by a psychologist - consisted of 500 “cute” Power Point slides and Google images
- One session on marriage as a Sacrament - some interesting stuff about Abraham and Moses, none about marriage.
Number of references to the Catechism or encyclicals - 0
Number of references to pop psychology and self help books - I lost count about half-way.
I don’t think Cardinal Kasper would’ve enjoyed it too much.
[/rant]
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UbiCaritas15
Guest
Ha, sounds more informative than mine. 8 hours: one NFP talk, one testimony to marriage, one talk about budgeting and one team worksheet about personalities. Oh, and lunch.I agree.
[rant]
I recall the abomination that was the “marriage preparatory course” my wife and I had to sit through…
Number of Scriptural quotes (over 3 days and 12 hours) - 3 (Malachi 2, Tobit 7, 1 Corinthians 13)
- One session on Canon Law which made it clear that the poor deacon had no clue what an annulment was…
- One session from a “liberal” Catholic doctor. Nothing about NFP. Just a description of the menstrual cycle, which most of the girls slept through.
- One session by a psychologist - consisted of 500 “cute” Power Point slides and Google images
- One session on marriage as a Sacrament - some interesting stuff about Abraham and Moses, none about marriage.
Number of references to the Catechism or encyclicals - 0
Number of references to pop psychology and self help books - I lost count about half-way.
I don’t think Cardinal Kasper would’ve enjoyed it too much.
[/rant]
Luckily, my parents are involved in the longest standing repeated nullity inquiry/ies in history. I think even Henry VIII’s was shorter… I get the forever part of marriage, for sure!!!
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RPRPsych
Guest
Wow!
And I thought we had it bad. The grass is always greener, I guess!(We didn’t have a talk on budgeting, but the Sister in charge of the whole thing said “after the course is over, go to the beach, and instead of holding hands, discuss your budget!”
)That’s the part I’m aiming for, too.
Sorry to hear about the enquiries - I can understand how such a process can be wearisome.
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eightydeuce82
Guest
you say the church has not condemned them to hell… I will have to disagree with you. Since the woman remarried she is commiting adultry and is living in a constant state of mortal sin. If she were to die she would go straight to hell as would anyone with mortal sin on the soul at the time of death. this is a standard catholic teaching. After spending a week on this topic being told repeatedly that no matter how i spin it most of my family are going to hell because of marriage/divorce and re-marriage. That is unless the first husband dies and they confess and have their secnd marriage blessed…OR the preform a perfect act of contrition just before they die…maybe. So in each case its a matter of timing. If any onf them die tomorrow its hell for them.
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eightydeuce82
Guest
If you were talking about the kids your right they are not condemned…but for me it looks like im going to be with out family in heaven.
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TMC
Guest
Fortunately, neither God nor the Church are as unbending or unforgiving as many members of this forum.
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kate_jackson
Guest
I doubt any priest would say that a person will go to hell…its not your judgement
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