Cardinal Müller to be removed from top Vatican doctrinal post

[FirstFiveEighth]

No, I can’t do that. I am a Catholic and such lack of charity is something I am taught to avoid.

I am not going to re-hash (at least yet) that there is some disagreement on what is doctrine and what is practice in this area. Suffice it to say that the minority opinion is that change cannot happen without changing doctrine, even though this “doctrine” has not been defined, but assumed based on a synthesis of other doctrines, a synthesis that might be faulty.

Perhaps you are right. I simply see a trend of putting down those who hold to historical church teaching and elevating those who want to see it changed. If you think someone is doing a good job at their post, you usually don’t let them go when their contract expires. I don’t believe the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is typically one that rotates every 5yrs simply because the obligation time is every 5yrs. We should of course be charitable in our judgments, but that doesn’t mean you simply ignore the stream of evidence, and I don’t necessarily think it is uncharitable to point that out. This is simply one more step down the path that the Pope has been charting his whole pontificate. We shall see where it leads us.

 

[Padres1969]

What is this term? I could not find it. Here is the list of the last Prefects:

I do think assuming this has anything to do with Amoris Laetitia is dubious. The timing is all wrong. Perhaps we need a reposting from the Catechism.

As I understand it, they serve 5 year renewable terms n the role. muller just isn’t being renewed. Levada resigned in 2012 due to age, and of course Ratzinger became Pope in 05.

 

[pnewton]

As I understand it, they serve 5 year renewable terms n the role. muller just isn’t being renewed. Levada resigned in 2012 due to age, and of course Ratzinger became Pope in 05.

I am curious if that is any where. I could not find it. If two people think this, I am guessing it comes from somewhere. I just don’t know if it is a perpetuated error or something subtle but true.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Vatican City, Jul 2, 2017 / 09:40 am (CNA/EWTN News).- In a brief interview given just hours after hearing that he would no longer be heading the Vatican’s doctrine office, Cardinal Gerhard Müller said the decision was normal, and was not the result of conflict between him and Pope Francis.

“There were no differences between me and Pope Francis,” Cardinal Müller told Allgemeine Zeitung, a regional German paper from Mainz.

Müller spoke to the paper while in Mainz for his 50th high school reunion. He traveled to the city Friday after meeting with Pope Francis earlier that morning, receiving the news that his term as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith would not be renewed.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-mller-theres-no-problem-between-me-pope-francis-49347/

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Well, this isn’t good. Barring some miraculous and unforeseen appointment, I suppose we can quit pretending that the Pope has merely had his words twisted and misinterpreted these last few years and acknowledge that he clearly wants to try and change church teaching on marriage and sin.

Hmmmmm…

 

[Thomas_Ruin]

Perhaps you are right. I simply see a trend of putting down those who hold to historical church teaching and elevating those who want to see it changed…

Archbishop Luis Ladaria is not a liberal who wants to see Church teaching changed; he is a conservative. He was appointed to the number two post at the CDF by Benedict XVI in 2008.

Most popes eventually replace people in the top posts with their own choices, as the appointees’ terms end. Francis is not doing anything unusual.

 

[I_trust]

He has served his 5 year term and it’s up to Pope Francis.

Cardinal Christoph Schönbornis an excellent possible choice.

???
onepeterfive.com/confusion-conflict-and-chaos-increase-in-the-wake-of-the-dubia/

Bishop vs Bishop warning at Akita

angelqueen.org/2016/12/05/cardinals-opposing-cardinals-bishops-against-bishops-popes-against-popes/

 

[twf]

Archbishop Luis Ladaria is not a liberal who wants to see Church teaching changed; he is a conservative. He was appointed to the number two post at the CDF by Benedict XVI in 2008.

Most popes eventually replace people in the top posts with their own choices, as the appointees’ terms end. Francis is not doing anything unusual.

That in itself isn’t unusual… what is HIGHLY unusual is retiring a cardinal at the age of 69. We have much older cardinals serving in the Curia or running dioceses. Unless His Eminence has severe health issues that have not been disclosed, this is extremely odd.

 

[Thomas_Ruin]

That in itself isn’t unusual… what is HIGHLY unusual is retiring a cardinal at the age of 69. We have much older cardinals serving in the Curia or running dioceses. Unless His Eminence has severe health issues that have not been disclosed, this is extremely odd.

Who said he was retiring?

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Archbishop Luis Ladaria is not a liberal who wants to see Church teaching changed; he is a conservative. He was appointed to the number two post at the CDF by Benedict XVI in 2008.

Most popes eventually replace people in the top posts with their own choices, as the appointees’ terms end. Francis is not doing anything unusual.

Yes I admit that I was preemptive and expecting a bad outcome. I am glad to see this selection and apologize for my prior judgment.

 

[twf]

Who said he was retiring?

I read elsewhere that he’s being retired. I don’t have a source off hand. Perhaps someone can shed some light?
Regardless, if he was reassigned, anything else would be a demotion at this point. Prefects of the CDF don’t just take up lesser Curial posts.

 

[Thomas_Ruin]

I read elsewhere that he’s being retired. I don’t have a source off hand. Perhaps someone can shed some light?
Regardless, if he was reassigned, anything else would be a demotion at this point. Prefects of the CDF don’t just take up lesser Curial posts.

He wasn’t reassigned. His term ended. He is awaiting reassignment. Happens every time a new pope is elected. Francis simply chose to let his term end rather than replace him immediately upon taking the Papacy. It shows how much Francis trusted Benedict’s appointments. Now Francis will appoint his own person.

This isn’t a big deal.

 

[I_trust]

He wasn’t reassigned. His term ended. He is awaiting reassignment. Happens every time a new pope is elected. Francis simply chose to let his term end rather than replace him immediately upon taking the Papacy. It shows how much Francis trusted Benedict’s appointments. Now Francis will appoint his own person.

This isn’t a big deal.

Not sure this is entirely accurate.
I will defer to those who know far more…
See FR. Z quoting Roberto de Mattei of orrispondenzaromana below…

wdtprs.com/blog/2017/07/reactions-to-the-change-of-prefect-at-cdf/

The removal of Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller represents a crucial moment in the history of Pope Francis’ pontificate. In fact, Müller, who was appointed Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on 2 July 2012 by Benedict XVI, is only 69 years old. It has never happened that a cardinal far beyond five years from the canonical retirement age (75 years) has not been renewed for a second quinquennium (five year term).

 

[Thomas_Ruin]

I think he is trying to find fault in it where there is none. The difference is that there is a new pope and pope’s pick their own curia. That is the way it has operated since the beginning.

Again, this isn’t anything earth shattering.

 

[I_trust]

I think he is trying to find fault in it where there is none. The difference is that there is a new pope and pope’s pick their own curia. That is the way it has operated since the beginning.

Again, this isn’t anything earth shattering.

I tend to trust the judgement of Fr. Z.

Fr Z also links to the following article by John-Henry Westen…
Timeline suggests reasons for Pope’s dismissal of conservative from top Vatican doctrine post
lifesitenews.com/news/timeline-suggests-reasons-for-popes-dismissal-of-conservative-from-top-vati

 

[Padres1969]

I think he is trying to find fault in it where there is none. The difference is that there is a new pope and pope’s pick their own curia. That is the way it has operated since the beginning.

Again, this isn’t anything earth shattering.

Plus wasn’t one of the things Francis promised to do was to clean up the Curia? Seems the easiest way to do that is to sack all the old guys no?

 

[I_trust]

Plus wasn’t one of the things Francis promised to do was to clean up the Curia? Seems the easiest way to do that is to sack all the old guys no?

Müller is 69

The Pope is 80

Cardinal Müller is one of the good guys.

 

[pnewton]

I tend to trust the judgement of Fr. Z.

Fr Z also links to the following article by John-Henry Westen…
Timeline suggests reasons for Pope’s dismissal of conservative from top Vatican doctrine post
lifesitenews.com/news/timeline-suggests-reasons-for-popes-dismissal-of-conservative-from-top-vati

I have liked him in the past, but I will change my opinion with the linking of LSN, and this snippet.

From this angle, the sacking of Cardinal Müller is an authoritarian act which constitutes Pope Bergoglio’s open challenge to the area of conservative cardinals with whom the Prefect of the Congregation for the Faith was notoriously close.

The Pope takes the name as a sign of his pontificate. To refer to him by his previous name shows a lack of support for his authority as Pope.

 

[Mark121359]

I have liked him in the past, but I will change my opinion with the linking of LSN, and this snippet.

From this angle, the sacking of Cardinal Müller is an authoritarian act which constitutes Pope Bergoglio’s open challenge to the area of conservative cardinals with whom the Prefect of the Congregation for the Faith was notoriously close.

I think you’re mistaken. That’s not Fr. Z calling him that. But rather, *Roberto de Mattei * calling him Pope Bergoglio.in the article from the site Corrispondenza Romana which Fr. Z linked.

Peace, Mark

 

[twf]

I think you’re mistaken. That’s not Fr. Z calling him that. But rather, *Roberto de Mattei * calling him Pope Bergoglio.in the article from the site Corrispondenza Romana which Fr. Z linked.

Peace, Mark

It’s also common for Italian writers to refer to ALL Popes by their last name.