Cardinal Pell's Conviction Announced; Verdict on Appeal

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Hi AlNg - I think it would be more fair too if one had a choice - but apparently not in Victoria where Cardinal Pell was tried. With other states of Australia, again apparently, one can choose.
Cardinal Pell would not have testified by his own choice I would think. He certainly proclaimed his innocence very loudly in the media before his trial. He still proclaims he is innocent and I know he would be well aware of moral consequences if guilty.
There will be an appeal.
There were two choir boys who were stated as victims. According to evidence they witnessed each other’s abuse again insofar as I am aware. One of them is now deceased.

I cannot judge, I know very little about courts and related matters and trial by jury or judge is never infallible. I do not trust the media either…and that is sad.
The media here in Australia is making a big issue of the fact that people are very unhappy about the conference with Pope Francis and Bishops re the abuse crisis. They are stating that it is all words and nothing truly concrete effected. The issue also includes that the conference concluded just prior to the Cardinal’s conviction being made public and that this was a deliberate step by the Vatican.

I can pray for the abused children and all affected by it. And I can pray for Cardinal Pell. I can pray for the Universal Church at this time.
 
I was heartbroken by this news. But I’ll leave it in God’s hands.
 
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1Lord1Faith said:
It didn’t sound true to me.
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I had the same reaction. The media here (Australia) is so toxically anti-Christian and especially anti-Catholic, that I doubt it would be possible for any priest to get a fair trial in this country, let alone someone as prominent as Pell.

He has lodged an appeal. Let’s wait and see how that goes.
 
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Sexual urge is one of the most strong,if not the strongest ,feeling God gave to humans-for obvious reasons as it is the core of the existence of mankind on earth.To become a priest one has to suppress it,not an easy job and many fall.Earlier the victims who are mainly boys (naturally) hesitated to report but now things changed in this information explosion age.It is time the church revisit the celibacy of priests and clergy. Otherwise more such horrible things can follow.Young people will be confused be whatever the firefighting exercises taken.
 
Balanced article from a dependable source in the main. Thank you, Irishmom2.
 
BarbTh said:
According to evidence they witnessed each other’s abuse again insofar as I am aware. One of them is now deceased.
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And the one who is deceased said that he was not abused.
As fed up as I am with the abuse and cover ups, I think there are serious questions about this particular case.
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
If he was found guilty he is guilty. I’ll take the word of a legal system from a civilized country. It isn’t the credibility of the Australian legal system that should be doubted here but the credibility of another organization.
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Have you read the details of the case? I am totally fed up with the abuse and cover ups, but there are some serious questions about this case
 
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I certainly think that The Church must get to the reason these endemic type crimes have occured. I find it almost impossible to get my head around the why’s of it all when priests are trained in moral theology in the seminary and they know the terrible moral consequences of mortal sin - particularly crimes against children.
We have to remember it is not a problem in our Catholic Church alone, it was a social problem at a particular time…and I am praying it is not still a social problem.

Whether celibacy is the primary cause is still being debated. Personally, I think it might be a cause but perhaps not the only cause. After all, we have far more celibate priests who are good and faithful priests who are celibate. I think it is up to these to have powerful (name removed by moderator)ut as to the difficulty of celibacy, or the lack of difficulty. I have been celibate for near on 40 years after 15 years of marriage. It was a struggle at first, but not after a few years…but then I am a woman not a man.
Temptation is intrinsic to human life. We can be sure Grace is with us sufficient to overcome temptation. Nowadays too there are many means of seeking advice and support if temptation gets or threatens to become too much.
Young men are in the seminary and celibate for quite a few years before they are ordained. They must surely be aware during their seminary years of any problems with the celibate state. If problems onset after ordination, again there has to be a reason.
I do know from conversations with priests that loneliness can be a problem especially today with our shortage of priests, but surely not sufficiently a problem to abuse children. No way. It is a problem however that many priests I think might suffer making their priestly life difficult.
 
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Hoosier-Daddy said:
If he was found guilty he is guilty
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The ink that has been spilled in judgments of Australian criminal appeal courts tends to disprove this statement.
 
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Should we be so particular and firm about celibacy of priests?Peter was married!
 
Celibacy is a discipline of The Church for the priesthood and last I heard the Vatican stated that that would never change though neither doctrine, dogma nor scriptural. Also, we are not a democracy we are a monarchy.
Personally, I would like to see a married priesthood as well as a celibate priesthood. It does offer a man a binding choice prior to ordination, which would be supported by the Grace of Holy Orders. But then we are a monarchy and I am called by God to obedience, but I am permitted to have personal opinions and concepts.
Our Catholic Church Anglicare Ordinariate has married priests and having attended Mass celebrated by priests of the Ordinariate, I have been very impressed by their celebration of Holy Mass. It has been a moving experience of devotion. Our parish priest was relieved a couple of times by an Ordinariate priest. Father’s homilies were excellent too, sound doctrine and in touch with modern life and life in the laity too.

I have wondered if the Anglican Ordinariate and married priests has been a way for the Vatican to ‘test the waters’. I can hope and pray.
 
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Better than me would know for sure, but I tend to think that the celibacy discipline for priests came about when the laity (including married laity) were regarded as not holy enough for a vocation. The sexual act too was distasteful to The Church-as-hierarchy and for those, again, not holy enough for the priesthood or religious life. It was a Catholic cultural thing rather than doctrinal, which Vatican II realised.
It wasn’t until Vatican II that marriage and Laity generally were put into their rightful place as holy vocations and potential vocational calls from God.
 
Yes,I too feel that the Church should give more importance to sex and sex related matters as it’s role and effect on humans are substantial probably much much more than what the authorities wish to think it is.Recently in India a very popular and influential Bishop was booked for sexual abuse of a nun,on the nun’s complaint.He was in jail for about 3 weeks and the case is under trial. May the church reconsider the celibacy subject in view of these incidences.
 
Indeed! I hope that Sister has been able to cope. Prayer for her.
May The Church get to the bottom of the reason for these terrible crimes by priests of any rank in The Church. They need to be absolutely sure of the reason or reasons and address that. At the moment, it seems to be a case of allowing the horse to bolt and then chasing it but only once it is pointed out to them that it has bolted. They find it and have merely returned it to the fold. In the case of poedaphile priests, they have been disciplined in some way or even merely shifted away elsewhere. They remain priests and some remain active priests in some way. From what I have read, the conference between PF and bishops has not changed much. All words no real action.
Where hierarchy have gone very wrong is on the matter of forgiveness, I think. A paedophile priest merely has to state that he is very sorry and will never do it again…and he is believed. That doesn’t work most often with paedophilia. It is a sickness and a social crime against children from which a child may never recover. It demands the law of the land address the criminal for whom our Church must accept responsibility and accountability.

It is still a case of chasing the bolted horse. And it seems to be that still after this conference between Pope Francis and the bishops on the abuse crisis. Just all words, no action, one person in Rome stated.

May the Good Lord protect children and us all. This is a shocking offence against children and all of us - and against Almighty God. May our Church as hierarchy be wide awake about that !!!
 
From what I have read to date and early days as yet, I tend to agree that it seems like all words with no real action. Pope Francis has made some dreadful comments about the crisis as a whole, more or less stating our crisis is situated within a larger social problem and in a dismissive tone as it were. Elsewhere it seems to be more about how to handle paedophilia priests once uncovered more than how to address the problem of cause. Paedophilia is the effect, not the cause, not the root problem. In the following link there is another link to the actual transcript of what Pope Francis has said, see below.

www.vaticannews.va

Pope Francis: Protecting children. Eradicating abuse - Vatican News

In a major address on Sunday, Pope Francis contextualizes the “scourge” of abuse, and appeals for an “all-out battle against the abuse of minors, both ...
www.vaticannews.va www.vaticannews.va

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
AT THE END OF THE EUCHARISTIC CONCELEBRATIONMeeting "The Protection of Minors in the Church": Address of His Holiness at the end of the Eucharistic Concelebration (24 February 2019) | Francis

I dont have time now to read all the above, but will do so as soon as I can.
 
BarbTh said:
but I tend to think that the celibacy discipline for priests came about when the laity (including married laity) were regarded as not holy enough for a vocation.
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It’s been my understanding that extreme nepotism of centuries ago, and had nothing to do with sex.
To be honest, I hear what you are saying, but I don’t see parishes, since they are declining, as wanting to support a priest with a family and all the expense that go with that.

Medical insurance, education, etc etc etc.
Being married is not cheap
 
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