Cardinal Raymond Burke: ‘Feminized’ church and altar girls caused priest shortage

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“if we can only get men to do this or think like us” attitude

You asked.
Who is this “us”?

Is there a small group of women that stir the pot in every parish?

And what would be an example of wanting to get men to do something or thinking a certain way? I’ve never seen men at church being coerced into doing something.
 
. And as far as fraternal organizations are concerned, they’re headed for extinction as an institution of the distant past.
But what about the MASONS!? Don’t you realize they are the puppet masters of the Vatican, and are in cahoots with the Jews to keep the price of sour cream high? :rolleyes: 😃
 
Speaking of fraternal organizations, I really enjoyed being part of the KofC and wish they’d make a comeback.
 
Speaking of fraternal organizations, I really enjoyed being part of the KofC and wish they’d make a comeback.
I don’t know much about the Knights, other than they’re still here.

I do know that decades ago just about every Catholic man here was in the Knights, as they’d all been asked by another Knight to be in it. At that time, it was sort of an Irish Catholic club here, and they had a bar that was at least open on Saturday night, in their club house.

Now that’s gone, and I think it’s truly more of a devotional organization here. But maybe something was lost in that transition. Having said, men just don’t join fraternal organizations much anymore.
 
Wow! Popular Tread! 🙂

In the Church I went to when I was younger, we did have girl altar servers, but boys and girls never served together at the same Mass.
 
As far as I can see, girl altar servers have not been a problem in our diocese. Sometimes it allows brothers and sisters to serve together, and there is no shortage of servers, both boys and girls. And we have a LOT of priestly vocations, as well as some new and quite traditionally minded orders of sisters. Most parishes do, however, have some exclusively male organizations and some exclusively female organizations.
 
As far as I can see, girl altar servers have not been a problem in our diocese. Sometimes it allows brothers and sisters to serve together, and there is no shortage of servers, both boys and girls. And we have a LOT of priestly vocations, as well as some new and quite traditionally minded orders of sisters. Most parishes do, however, have some exclusively male organizations and some exclusively female organizations.
I wonder if serving as altar girls actually helps form female vocations? :hmmm: 🤷
 
I wonder if serving as altar girls actually helps form female vocations? :hmmm: 🤷
It’s too new of a thing for their really to be evidence of that. The thing that seems to be most important in forming vocations both to the priesthood and religious life, is a strong Catholic family upbringing, (which incidentally includes fathers who attend church and encourage vocations.) But I have also noticed quite a few “late” vocations among men who started off on different career paths. One order of sisters moved to this area after splitting from their founding order which had become too ‘leftist’ oriented for them.
 
And what would be an example of wanting to get men to do something or thinking a certain way?
Isn’t that what you’re doing here?

I say let men be men. If they want to form an order and/or restore dying parishes, let them. I would hope there would be others such as the St John Cantians so you wouldn’t have to fly so far to see their parishes.
 
Isn’t that what you’re doing here?

I say let men be men. If they want to form an order and/or restore dying parishes, let them. I would hope there would be others such as the St John Cantians so you wouldn’t have to fly so far to see their parishes.
All I asked was for examples of everyday situations where men are silenced, discouraged, etc.

And all I got was, “Men feel bored” “Men are hen-pecked” “Men are discouraged from fighting like manly men” “Priests don’t do manly activities with parishioners anymore” etc.

Without real-life, concrete examples, all this sounds like whining and blaming women.

Since you mentioned restoration of dying parishes: Please describe what a group of men wanted to do but was stopped because there was a feminine atmosphere.
 
Raymond Burke did not seem to be blaming women. He seemed to be blaming the cultural changes brought about by feminism and the resultant feminization of culture, which includes the feminization of the culture of the church.

As far as women go, well, some certainly are into the cute guy sort of thing.

Many others are not so happy about the decline in a culture that no longer values fatherhood and other masculine values.
 
Raymond Burke did not seem to be blaming women. He seemed to be blaming the cultural changes brought about by feminism and the resultant feminization of culture, which includes the feminization of the culture of the church.
Thats right, because its always someone else’s fault.
 
This past week the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops released the findings from the 2014 Survey of Ordinands to the Priesthood. Prepared by Georgetown’s Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) for the USCCB, the survey was completed by 365 ordinands, which constitutes a 77 percent response rate. At nearly 30 pages, there is a great deal of data to digest.

While the USCCB press release focused on areas such as the ethnicity and median age of this years ordinands, something far more interesting was tucked in at the bottom of the release.

Of the 365 men surveyed this year, a whopping 80 percent had been altar boys during their formative years. In comparison, only 52 percent of ordinands had been lectors, less than a third had been youth ministers and only 15 percent had ever attended a World Youth Day or a Steubenville Youth Conference.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/ordination-class/upload/Class-of-2014-report-FINAL-2.pdf
 
Fascinating. My response wasn’t actually based in emotion at all. Merely pointing out that it is ironic to complain that the bride of Christ is feminine.
The Church is also called the body of Christ,and Christ is a man.
Also, it is interesting that ‘feminization’ is being used as a pejorative. Feminine is not negative.
How would you respond if the majority of Catholics (i.e. women) complained that the Church was too ‘masculinized’?
Feminization is indeed a bad thing when men and priests become effeminate,and they no longer have strong character and morals,and no longer uphold and defend the teachings of the Church,or oppose false teachings and immorality.

The Church is necessarily patriarchal insofar as we worship the true,living God,who is Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,and God gave husbands a natural authority over wives,and men in general a natural authority over women in general.
 
Since you mentioned restoration of dying parishes: Please describe what a group of men wanted to do but was stopped because there was a feminine atmosphere.
I believe I already told you that one of the orders ended up being “schismatic” so I’m not going to say more lest I be accused of being part of them.

BTW, this atmosphere is more than just inside the parish halls.
 
So he blames the priest shortage on gays and altar girls? Kind of flimsy thinking, in my opinion. I wonder if potential priests who are put off by little altar girls would really have stayed for the long haul…
Homosexual persons are attracted to members of the same sex
Heterosexual persons are attracted to opposite sex
Peadophiles molest children of either sex
This Cardinal is very wrong to claim molestation of children and young people is related to
Homosexuality. I imagine the preponderance of young boys molested by paedophile priests simply reflects the avaiibitly of boys to the monsterous priest. I also suspect it may also have much to do with lack of Altar Boys. The Cardina is a bright man. I wonder why he insists on peddling this pseudoscientific rubbish.
 
Well merely coincidence that over 80% were boys? I don’t think heterosexual men are attracted to males of ANY age. So you think that the only criteria was that the victim be a minor? That otherwise heterosexual males ignored their chromosomes and their hormones just so they could prey sexually upon a minor of either gender?

Here’s the irony, the same people who are so determined to avoid calling this problem what it is, predatory homosexuality, are the same ones who claim that one cannot change their sexual orientation 🤷 Sorry that dog don’t hunt.

The Jay Report focuses on abuse and does not address the problems caused by homosexuality in the seminaries, in the priesthood, in monasteries, and with orders, etc. That these abusive priests were caught and prosecuted (as they should have been) for preying upon minors does not mean they were not also engaged in homosexual activity with other men. In fact there were subsequent reports that certain seminaries were a hotbed of homosexual activity and a holy and orthodox candidate need not apply or if he did was quickly voted off the island.

Please explain if you still believe that the abusing priests did not experience SSA but simply went after whatever kid was available, why 80% of the victims were males? Further as the Jay Report did investigate, did this change in later years? IOW the early cases of priest abuse had a far greater incidence of preying upon girls AND boys. But factor in the later years and the huge swing to almost exclusively male victims reduced it to a mere 80%.
I tell you which ‘dog don’t hunt’ is the fact that the priestly abuse scandal is only the tip of the abuse iceberg. Most molestation takes place at he heterosexual adult on female or male child (but mostly female). And while you think of a smart reply can you post your recipe for changing your sexual orientation. I’m very interested in the hetro to home method
 
All I asked was for examples of everyday situations where men are silenced, discouraged, etc.

And all I got was, “Men feel bored” “Men are hen-pecked” “Men are discouraged from fighting like manly men” “Priests don’t do manly activities with parishioners anymore” etc.

Without real-life, concrete examples, all this sounds like whining and blaming women.
The silencing and discouragement isn’t usually a situation where men are explicitly told not to talk or told they can’t do things. It’s about subtle conditioning. It is usually a situation where those in charge set a liberal climate of opinion and assumptions which discourages men from speaking or acting boldly and heroically,and which discourages anyone from upholding and defending traditional Catholic doctrine and traditional moral standards. It’s about
 
The silencing and discouragement isn’t usually a situation where men are explicitly told not to talk or told they can’t do things. It’s about subtle conditioning. It is usually a situation where those in charge set a liberal climate of opinion and assumptions which discourages men from speaking or acting boldly and heroically,and which discourages anyone from upholding and defending traditional Catholic doctrine and traditional moral standards. It’s about
Were you going to finish with “sexism?”
 
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