Cardinal suspends Pfleger: 'You are not able to pastor a Catholic parish'

[Beau_Ouiville]

I attended Mass at St. Sabina’s a few times in the 80’s and Fr. Pfleger presided. The community is largly African-American and many members were either converts from Protestantism or had family and friends who were raised and active in Protestant communities. The music certainly wasn’t chant or plainsong and instruments other than the pipe organ were used, but it was uplifting music which helped me to focus on the presence of the Lord. Fr. Pfleger’s homiletic style was more akin to the rythms and cadences of Black southern preachers and he focused on the liberating power of the Gospel and it’s role in shaping a Black ethnic consiousness. Some things were different from what is often experienced in White ethnic parishes throughout Chicago, but it was most definitely the Catholic Mass. St. Sabina’s is a Catholic Church and Fr. Pfleger served as a Catholic priest in that “faith community” for many, many years. No one in authority ever denied or questioned the Catholic identity of the community as far as I know. You may have your opinion as to what constitutes a “Catholic” liturgy, but it is certainly not definitive, and frankly, I’m glad you are not the one who determines such things.

That was kind of my experience also at St. Sabina’s – except my cousins who were members there have been Catholic since before the Civil War.

 

[Brendan]

Last time I checked Obama did…he’s big into social justice issues!

The problem is, Obama and his ilk only believe in ‘social justice issues’ for only certain segments of the population.

The other segments ( the unborn) can be terminated at will according to Obama.

Such selective social justice is not a Catholic position. In fact, it is very contrary to the Church’s teachings.

Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights–for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture–is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.”

Pope John Paul II - Christfidelis Laici

Without the elimiation of the so called right to abortion, everythign that Obama is try to do is “false and Illusory”.

If abortion exists, there is no universal health care. If abortion exists, there is no right to education. All of these must hindge on the right to life.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

**Can you provide a link to his pro-life activities? **

he goes in depth about it in his book…obviously he is aware of the naysayers, and what they think about him…BEFORE even getting to know him…he talks about this in great detail

 

[hxcCatholic413]

You are not familar with Catholic teaching on abortion are you? No issue or combination of issue trump abortion. Here what the Pope said:

. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia

Heres what Archbishop Chaput said about the idea that Obama was pro-life:

To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ‘‘Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ‘‘Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said.

sounds to me that your merely concurring that there is a double standard…yes abortion is a great evil…last time I checked Republicans use it as a means to get votes…you vote for them regarding one issue…when on the flip side they support death penalty, pro-gun laws, against illegal immigration, pro-war…capitalism…yeah that sounds like Catholic Church teachings to me

In a case like this it would be best to vote for a third party…or not vote at all…

“We ought to obey God, rather than men” - Acts 5:29

 

[catharina]

sounds to me that your merely concurring that there is a double standard…yes abortion is a great evil…last time I checked Republicans use it as a means to get votes…you vote for them regarding one issue…when on the flip side they support death penalty, pro-gun laws, against illegal immigration, pro-war…capitalism…yeah that sounds like Catholic Church teachings to me

In a case like this it would be best to vote for a third party…or not vote at all…

“We ought to obey God, rather than men” - Acts 5:29

No double standard at all.
A Catholic standard regarding the sanctity of life,
especially at its most defenseless - the unborn.

So you are comfortable refuting the priority the Church
defines regarding her pro-life stance? Interesting.

Instead, you choose to sub-divide the issue into politics?

Wow.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

I attended Mass at St. Sabina’s a few times in the 80’s and Fr. Pfleger presided. The community is largly African-American and many members were either converts from Protestantism or had family and friends who were raised and active in Protestant communities. The music certainly wasn’t chant or plainsong and instruments other than the pipe organ were used, but it was uplifting music which helped me to focus on the presence of the Lord. Fr. Pfleger’s homiletic style was more akin to the rythms and cadences of Black southern preachers and he focused on the liberating power of the Gospel and it’s role in shaping a Black ethnic consiousness. Some things were different from what is often experienced in White ethnic parishes throughout Chicago, but it was most definitely the Catholic Mass. St. Sabina’s is a Catholic Church and Fr. Pfleger served as a Catholic priest in that “faith community” for many, many years. No one in authority ever denied or questioned the Catholic identity of the community as far as I know. You may have your opinion as to what constitutes a “Catholic” liturgy, but it is certainly not definitive, and frankly, I’m glad you are not the one who determines such things.

Amen! these seem to be the same individuals that bash Jesuits as well…unfortunate at best

 

[hxcCatholic413]

No double standard at all.
A Catholic standard regarding the sanctity of life,
especially at its most defenseless - the unborn.

So you are comfortable refuting the priority the Church
defines regarding her pro-life stance? Interesting.

Instead, you choose to sub-divide the issue into politics?

Wow.

I’m getting chills right now reading that someone thinks immigration and the death penalty are merely political issues The sanctity of life goes beyond just abortion…death penalty, euthanasia, contraception, immigration…etc.

If Jesus was around now as an American citizen…he wouldn’t vote…but pray for all those w/ mixed morals…God Bless!

 

[catharina]

I’m getting chills right now reading that someone thinks immigration and the death penalty are merely political issues The sanctity of life goes beyond just abortion…death penalty, euthanasia, contraception, immigration…etc.

If Jesus was around now as an American citizen…he wouldn’t vote…but pray for all those w/ mixed morals…God Bless!

I’m certain that you are incapable of speaking for or as Jesus.

The Vatican speaks for Jesus. The Vatican has said and
continues to say that the priority is the struggle to stop the
genocide of abortion. If you don’t grasp that, you grasp nothing.

Your morality is mixed **and **flawed. You’ve made it obvious here.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

I’m certain that you are incapable of speaking for or as Jesus.

The Vatican speaks for Jesus. The Vatican has said and
continues to say that the priority is the struggle to stop the
genocide of abortion. If you don’t grasp that, you grasp nothing.

Your morality is mixed **and **flawed. You’ve made it obvious here.

is this the same Vatican that declared Holy War during crusades? killed non-believers? same Vatican that covered up sex abuse scandals?umm…i’m not trying to rag on the Vatican, but I am trying to show you that they are humans like you and me.

So are you saying you determine Republicans as the “glorious” party? All their ideologies are approved by the Church?

For the record I don’t vote…God is my leader…I live my life based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Obviously I believe abortion is wrong…i’m merely pointing out to you that the Republican party is equally worse.

“We ought to obey God, rather than men” - Acts 5:29

 

[hxcCatholic413]

It’s also a huge manifest grave sin. Yes, it’s disobedience to a valid authority, but worse yet, he’s saying he’d commit heresy if he needed to. It’s like saying you would commit adultery with that woman over there if the opportunity presented itself. What did Christ say about adultery? You don’t have to do it to do it. Same with heresy. If you would threaten to do it, you’ve done it.

I think the real lesson we can learn from about Fr. Pfleger is to NEVER speak out of passion…because that is what he did and look where it got him

 

[catharina]

is this the same Vatican that declared Holy War during crusades? killed non-believers? same Vatican that covered up sex abuse scandals?umm…i’m not trying to rag on the Vatican, but I am trying to show you that they are humans like you and me.

So are you saying you determine Republicans as the “glorious” party? All their ideologies are approved by the Church?

For the record I don’t vote…God is my leader…I live my life based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Obviously I believe abortion is wrong…i’m merely pointing out to you that the Republican party is equally worse.

“We ought to obey God, rather than men” - Acts 5:29

How totally bizarre of you.

Within the Church exists infallibility when teaching on faith and morals.
If you don’t accept that fact, then you are in dissent.

As for politics, only YOU mentioned it. I referred to YOUR comments.
It would be best if you refrain from “lecturing” me on the Faith - and on politics.
You are too far removed from Truth to present any credible teaching.

 

[catharina]

is this the same Vatican that declared Holy War during crusades? killed non-believers? same Vatican that covered up sex abuse scandals?umm…i’m not trying to rag on the Vatican, but I am trying to show you that they are humans like you and me.

So are you saying you determine Republicans as the “glorious” party? All their ideologies are approved by the Church?

For the record I don’t vote…God is my leader…I live my life based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Obviously I believe abortion is wrong…i’m merely pointing out to you that the Republican party is equally worse.

“We ought to obey God, rather than men” - Acts 5:29

A thousand pardons.
Just checked your profile.
You’re only 20 years old.
I shouldn’t have bothered correcting you.

It’s likely that the passage of time will add wisdom to your thinking.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

A thousand pardons.
Just checked your profile.
You’re only 20 years old.
I shouldn’t have bothered correcting you.

It’s likely that the passage of time will add wisdom to your thinking.

I suppose we can agree to disagree, perhaps I’ll mention what I wrote in a homily one day
God Bless!

 

[catharina]

I suppose we can agree to disagree, perhaps I’ll mention what I wrote in a homily one day
God Bless!

Perhaps the homily will teach
that wisdom leads to humility.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Perhaps the homily will teach
that wisdom leads to humility.

yes or perhaps it will teach that looking out for others in regards to several moral issues also leads to humility.

 

[PaulinVA]

I think the real lesson we can learn from about Fr. Pfleger is to NEVER speak out of passion…because that is what he did and look where it got him

Well, Cathoics tend to be less passionate and more cerebral. Passion is good, if it leads one down the correct path.

If passion leads one on a path away from the Church and you take your parish with you, then that is a definite problem.

 

[estesbob]

yes or perhaps it will teach that looking out for others in regards to several moral issues also leads to humility.

You very much sound like the product of a modern Jesuit Education. Your muddled thinking on abortion and flat out rejection of Church teaching on abortion and the obligation to vote must be traced to that.

 

[Tsuwano]

I think the real lesson we can learn from about Fr. Pfleger is to NEVER speak out of passion…because that is what he did and look where it got him

Never speak out of passion? Well, so much for St. Paul then. I think a better lesson is to never make a threat you aren’t prepared to have taken seriously.

 

[PaulinVA]

I just read through the statements on the St Sabina web site. Why is this playing out in public?

The whole thing is distasteful. Letters from “astors of 14 Black Catholic Churches” and counter proposals from Pfleger and a letter from the leadership of St Sabina.

All of these people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Church works. It seems like there is a huge obedience problem in Chicago.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

A thousand pardons.
Just checked your profile.
You’re only 20 years old.
I shouldn’t have bothered correcting you.

It’s likely that the passage of time will add wisdom to your thinking.

How likely? Granted, when I was 20, I was also a confused, liberal Catholic. I didn’t change until I was 23. But I tend to think I was an exception.

Pfleger is much older than 20. So are Schillebeeckx, Kung, Boff, and Curran. When will any of them learn? It reminds me of the old riddle, “How many psychotherapists does it take to change a light bulb?”*

*It only takes one if the bulb is willing to change.