Cardinal's Clothing Budget $20,000! ?

[EphelDuath]

Does this thread have any reason to exist, other than to slander our eminent Princes of the Church?

 

[TEPO]

Wait! How do we know the manufacturer doesn’t donate 76.3% of all profits to the poor? If they do, then wouldn’t it be okay then?

 

[TEPO]

Does this thread have any reason to exist, other than to slander our eminent Princes of the Church?

No, not really.

 

[L_Marshall]

No. It originated when someone took a photo of Card. Burke in liturgical vestments, then looked up prices of each item, added up, and arrived at $30K. You can find the PDF linked here: contemplativecatholicuk.blogspot.com/2010/11/cost-of-looking-good-in-magic-kingdom.html

Of course I understand the need for liturgical vestments, but Card. Burke’s apparent taste for items from the top shelf seems a bit… excessive.

That aside, I have an impression the vendors overcharge simply because they can.

Firstly, I do doubt some of the price they’re quoting, because they are a non-Catholic church (“United Ecumenical Catholic Church,” probably one of the independent churches that broke from Rome some time ago), and it appears some of their other writings have anti-Catholic leanings. Secondly, as someone who owns some things from EuroClero and Gammarelli’s, I can state that the slide show exaggerated prices with some things I know the price of.

Next, I’d still like to say that I highly doubt that Raymond Cardinal Burke owns half the things you see in the picture. Most of the photos are most likely from ordinations for traditionalist societies in communion with Rome (probably FSSP or ICKSP), and these societies probably have the vestment sets. If not, Cardinal Burke is probably borrowing them from an archives collection, or the Vatican. This is not at all uncommon.

Out of everything in those pictures, His Eminence probably only owns his cassock, zucchetto, ring, socks, fascia, amice, and alb. There’s a chance it may be his mitre, if he has an odd head size.

Most bishops, as I said, do not have full sets of vestments. They use the diocese’s set, or a set belonging to the parish they visit, and bring a mitre.

Aside from that, one personal complaint I have is that so many journalist and personalities pain Cardinal Burke to be selfish, mean, and the epitome of clericalism. He’s really not. He’s a very patient, kind man, who would surprise you with his pastorality.

 

[weller2]

Thanks for explaining.

It appears that the claim is much exaggerated.

 

[KrazyKat]

Does this thread have any reason to exist, other than to slander our eminent Princes of the Church?

To point out a fact is not slander. Pope Francis is working hard to make it known that they are NOT PRINCES but SERVANTS of GOD .

 

[Joe_5859]

No. It originated when someone took a photo of Card. Burke in liturgical vestments, then looked up prices of each item, added up, and arrived at $30K. You can find the PDF linked here: contemplativecatholicuk.blogspot.com/2010/11/cost-of-looking-good-in-magic-kingdom.html

Of course I understand the need for liturgical vestments, but Card. Burke’s apparent taste for items from the top shelf seems a bit… excessive.

That aside, I have an impression the vendors overcharge simply because they can.

That’s not at all a good way to go about pricing a cardinal’s wardrobe. Plus the OP said that it was a clothing budget of $20,000 per year. There is no way I would believe that without some substantial documentation to back it up.

Further, as has been said, cardinals and bishops do not own a lot of what they use. And much of the stuff they do have are gifts. My bishop recently got a new, very nice-looking crozier. A parish gave it to him as a gift. It’s not as though he’s taking funds from the Catholic Charities budget to finance his wardrobe.

Vestments are generally priced higher that regular clothes, though. I think any type of business that caters to institutions rather than individuals is going to mark things up a bit more. At least, that’s the way it works in the U.S. most of the time.

 

[Julianna]

What are you talking about. The first image is the cardinals “street dress.” He would need a few of these, for when one is being repaired or in the wash.

The second set of pictures are not “clothing” but vestments. Vestments worn during Mass for the glory of God. Bishops and Cardinals don’t go walking around town or meetings in their miters, copes, chasubles and crosier. By the way, the picture is not even correct. The white garment under the chasuble is an alb not a dalmatic, a dalmatic is the proper vestment for deacon.

Per the OP, where is your cite. You just threw $20,000 out there but gave no proof, and did not qualify anything. Is this the “bill” for all the cardinals street clothes (new reds) and all their liturgical clothes? A “budget” suggests yearly, but a cardinal would not have to purchase new vestments every year. Indeed they would not even have to purchase new vestments except for getting his reds. He could continue to wear the same vestments he wore as a bishop. (including miter, chasuble, albs, crosier, and pectoral cross.

And for everyone’s information vestments and liturgical clothing is expensive. Even the Franciscan habit of Cardinal Sean of Boston is expensive (ask BrJR) and he still needs vestments to say Mass.

All this griping over money is very unbecoming and starts to look like calamity when no proof is offered.

Perhaps the Cardinals should do what we do when it comes to the purchase of clothing…“shop around for the best price.”

It stuns and amazes me that this is brought up now. Something we have “known” for years…which was always “justified”. I have yet to see a new parish priest not renovate completely his quarters and office after the previous one has retired, or has been reassigned.

 

[Julianna]

I don’t mind much of the pageantry that is part of the tradition of the Catholic Church…as long as it doesn’t become excessive…which unfortunately over the centuries it has become in some cases…Pope Francis…like his namesake Saint Francis appears to be rebuilding the church by his example…I’m sure there is opposition from within the hierarchy of the church worldwide from those who have enjoyed privileges beyond their role as “princes of the church”…God bless Pope Francis as he reforms our Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PRmerger]

So they actually saw Jesus crucified, and saw him alive after 3 days, ate and conversed with him.

And then spread the gospel “He is risen!”

And they didn’t lie about this.

But Jesus did? Jesus lied? Jesus said that he died and he really didn’t?

Is that your position?

Thanks for explaining.

It appears that the claim is much exaggerated.

Hiya, weller! I see that you’re online now.

We were in a great discussion on a different thread, but you left without addressing the above question. Would you mind answering it there? Just click on the link.

Thanks.

 

[maryjk]

Does this thread have any reason to exist, other than to slander our eminent Princes of the Church?

Not so far.

Waiting for a link to back up the OP’s statement that Cardinal’s clothes cost $20,000.

 

[EphelDuath]

To point out a fact is not slander.

They are princes; prince, not meaning “spoiled brat nobility” like some like to interpret it, but from the Latin PRINCEPS, meaning “first of equals”. To publicly criticize their dress, of which you don’t even know all of the facts (maybe they were all gifts; maybe the costs are donated to charity), is to put yourself above your bishops. How about instead of moaning about it, you spend that time to go feed the poor yourself?

Pope Francis is working hard to make it known that they are NOT PRINCES but SERVANTS of GOD .

Pope Francis is a big boy and can probably get on fine without hysterics on the Internet, thank you.

Perhaps the Cardinals should do what we do when it comes to the purchase of clothing…“shop around for the best price.”

Maybe they do? You don’t know all the facts. How about instead of moaning about it, you spend that time to go feed the poor yourself?

 

[Julianna]

Does this thread have any reason to exist, other than to slander our eminent Princes of the Church?

No, not really. Just to bring to light what has been going on for years…and we all knew it. Our Pope is the one bringing it to light.

To teach as Jesus did,… what a concept

Pope Francis has got it going on!

 

[EphelDuath]

No, not really. Just to bring to light what has been going on for years…and we all knew it. Our Pope is the one bringing it to light.

The Pope’s job is to be the Pope. If you think he’s doing a good job, that’s fantastic. Your job is not to be Pope. Your job is not to sit around criticizing our hierarchy. If you feel so passionately about the matter, might I suggest you find yourself a career in the field of ecclesiastical dress. That might do some good for people. What you’re doing right now, is not.

 

[jilly4ski]

To point out a fact is not slander. Pope Francis is working hard to make it known that they are NOT PRINCES but SERVANTS of GOD .

But these are not facts. As people have been trying to explain, bishops and cardinals would not always own more than one set of their own vestments (which are worn during Mass!). They do need to purchase the appropriate cassocks (sash and cape), zucchetto, they would have one crosier (required), and a pectoral cross (also required but they may have more than one, which are probably gifts), their own albs with appropriate lacing. They probably have their own biretta (hat) and potentially their own miter set to match their vestment set. (Miter is required vestment for a bishop/Cardinal).

There is a wide variety of costs and quality for vestments, but many are made by religious houses who use these items to support themselves. Many vestments are owned by the diocese, parish or other institutions and not by individuals and are available for the bishop/cardinal to use. Indeed many vestments used are potentially very old, purchased, donated, or gifted, many years ago. To make such assumptions (that cardinals are spending $20,000 on their “clothing”) against the Church is bordering on calamity.

 

[EphelDuath]

There is a wide variety of costs and quality for vestments, but many are made by religious houses who use these items to support themselves. Many vestments are owned by the diocese, parish or other institutions and not by individuals and are available for the bishop/cardinal to use. Indeed many vestments used are potentially very old, purchased, donated, or gifted, many years ago. To make such assumptions (that cardinals are spending $20,000 on their “clothing”) against the Church is bordering on calamity.

And that’s all you need to know about that. I’m going to request a moderator to close this thread.

 

[KrazyKat]

And that’s all you need to know about that. I’m going to request a moderator to close this thread.

Now that is funny as I was considering reporting you.

 

[Julianna]

The Pope’s job is to be the Pope. If you think he’s doing a good job, that’s fantastic. Your job is not to be Pope. Your job is not to sit around criticizing our hierarchy. If you feel so passionately about the matter, might I suggest you find yourself a career in the field of ecclesiastical dress. That might do some good for people. What you’re doing right now, is not.

Thank you for your opinion on what “I” should do. Ain’t America great? We all can come to the table with our thoughts and ideas and be heard.

The hierarchy puts their pants on one leg at a time, just like you and I do. They are human beings, just like us. They have been appointed shepherds for the flock, “us”. If a Cardinal wore blue jeans, cowboy boots and the shirt with the collar, that is fine with me. If he got the jeans on sale a Target for $30.00 even better. I am not “intimidated” by hierarchy as my grandparents who just got off the boat from Italy in 1910. Or my husband’s great granparents who were settling in to their new country due to the potato famine.

The leaders of our Church are not “gods”… I don’t see Thor, or Apollo, or Zeus. I see people, people who are assigned, appointed, have a calling to shepherd their flock. They don’t need to be dripping in gold to get their message across.

To quote Captain America, "There’s only one God, ma’am, and I’m pretty sure He doesn’t dress like that.”

 

[Julianna]

Come on you guys…everyone has a thought on this issue. Let us discuss this without running to mommy and daddy.

 

[EphelDuath]

Thank you for your opinion on what “I” should do. Ain’t America great? We all can come to the table with our thoughts and ideas and be heard.

So what’s the point of the slander? Are any souls being saved? No. Any poor being fed, sheltered, loved? No. Is a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith being achieved? Nope. If our eminent cardinals are spending inappropriately, His Holiness will deal with it. You know what won’t deal with it? Moaning on the Internet. All this hysteria and misinformation is accomplishing absolutely nothing, except maybe turn others away from the Catholic Church.

The leaders of our Church are not “gods”… I don’t see Thor, or Apollo, or Zeus. I see people, people who are assigned, appointed, have a calling to shepherd their flock. They don’t need to be dripping in gold to get their message across.

I haven’t seen you demonstrate that they have. So all of this falls under the umbrella of…gossip. I hope you’ve been reading what the Pope has said about that.

Repeating this for emphasis:

There is a wide variety of costs and quality for vestments, but many are made by religious houses who use these items to support themselves. Many vestments are owned by the diocese, parish or other institutions and not by individuals and are available for the bishop/cardinal to use. Indeed many vestments used are potentially very old, purchased, donated, or gifted, many years ago. To make such **assumptions **(that cardinals are spending $20,000 on their “clothing”) against the Church is bordering on calamity.