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Xantippe
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Yes, Virginia, there is a Panera’s drive-thru. And they have 13 huge bagels for $6.99 on Tuesdays.
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pianistclare
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that’s beautiful. Well stated.
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pensmama87
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I actually used to work at Panera but none of the ones around here have a drive-thru, to my knowledge. (No bagel deal either - maybe that’s a particular franchise thing.)
It’s a testament to how good their food is that I’m still more than willing to eat there after being employed by them.
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Xantippe
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- A lot of people don’t get to choose their region. When my husband was finishing up graduate school, he had exactly one job offer and he was very lucky to get it.
- Many hotter job markets tend to have expensive real estate. Outside of certain areas (TX, for instance) cheap real estate in the US goes hand in hand with depressed economies. And even in Texas, the median home price is now $146k, which is CRAZY given that median household income is $53kish and we are supposedly an affordable area. 3X median income isn’t that cheap.
- Move too far out and you’re not going to see much of daddy, which is hard on mommy. (When we lived in DC, my husband’s public transportation commute from suburban Maryland to Washington DC was 75-90 minutes each way.)
- These discussions tend not to bring up retirement at all. I’m not saying that that’s a good thing, I’m just mentioning that it tends to be taboo on CAF, just like it’s taboo to think about school costs.
- If housing is very cheap, the equity is going to be small.
- 3+ years ago, we were renting a house for roughly half of our current total housing costs (mortgage, taxes, insurance, maintenance). Now that was a very good rental deal, but it does suggest that there’s a different way to skin the equity cat–rent cheap and invest the difference.
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Xantippe
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Funny!
I actually used to work at Panera but none of the ones around here have a drive-thru, to my knowledge. (No bagel deal either - maybe that’s a particular franchise thing.)
It’s a testament to how good their food is that I’m still more than willing to eat there after being employed by them.
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jmjZelie
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I have spent a couple hours poring over PC’s blog. It has been very helpful to me today. I have truly hit the wall since I got pregnant with my fifth (well, actually my seventh pregnancy, though). I would say I have been running on the fumes but the truth is probably more like God is giving my family the graces to make up for my failures and where I lack. I honesty don’t know if I am struggling with PPD, or if I am Just. That. Tired. Either way, I am terrified of becoming pregnant again. We have no support system. I didn’t have any support system during my last pregnancy either. My FIL had to drive like a madman twelve hours to get to us in time so he could stay with the kids while I went to the hospital. I am lucky that I had to have an unexpected scheduled C-section, otherwise he never would have made it and I would have had to labor alone in the hospital.
And then we just moved cross country, thousands of miles. I have ZERO help. No one to talk to. And never enough sleep. My body is run down. I feel like I am dying inside many days.
I would love to vent more but my children are all screaming at me and each other so I must go attend to that. I need a nap.
And then we just moved cross country, thousands of miles. I have ZERO help. No one to talk to. And never enough sleep. My body is run down. I feel like I am dying inside many days.
I would love to vent more but my children are all screaming at me and each other so I must go attend to that. I need a nap.
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Xantippe
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pensmama87
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I agree and I disagree (I do realize you said “some.”)
I haven’t been a mother very long but I definitely think, yes, I’ve grown up a bit and gotten over myself, though I do have an occasional fit of selfishness.
But I also think in some circles the self-sacrifice aspect of motherhood is really, really pounded to death and it’s just not healthy. Of course motherhood is about sacrifice, but that also doesn’t mean that women who are mothers have to forsake all interests and hobbies that aren’t directly related to mothering. I took up running last year and it was so good for me - it’s also something I do completely by myself.I think sometimes there is a message sent (or at least heard) by many SAHMs that our children are all we need as people, and that’s just not true. We have the same needs other people have, and it doesn’t make us bad people to know that and make time for that.
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Xantippe
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Right.I agree and I disagree (I do realize you said “some.”)
I haven’t been a mother very long but I definitely think, yes, I’ve grown up a bit and gotten over myself, though I do have an occasional fit of selfishness.
I think sometimes there is a message sent (or at least heard) by many SAHMs that our children are all we need as people, and that’s just not true. We have the same needs other people have, and it doesn’t make us bad people to know that and make time for that.
I think it’s not even necessarily society, but a normal phase in early motherhood, to live on a combination of caffeine, high fructose corn syrup, adrenaline and baby smiles and to be happy to do it.
But you can’t live like that that forever.
Even just with regard to the children themselves, older children need and want their parents to be interesting and engaging, which means to have interests.
I see this very obviously with my husband. He has a lot of hobbies and interests, but they are nearly all things that he is happy to do with the kids (at least some of the time). And that makes him a better parent and gives him more to offer the kids.
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jmjZelie
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So with 5 kids and homeschooling being a nonnegotiable, how can my family make changes that reflect the reality of human needs (my own) and finite resources (time, money, etc)?
I know I need to make changes but I am clueless to know what needs to be reexamined.
Any ideas?
I know I need to make changes but I am clueless to know what needs to be reexamined.
Any ideas?
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pensmama87
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Exactly. I think I am beginning to be in the early stages of pulling out of that phase (especially with my oldest in preschool) and while there were a lot of joys there, I’m glad. I will continue to have at least one baby and toddler for a while yet, but even having one preschooler changes the family dynamic quite a lot, and I like it.
Kendra Tierney is one of my favorite “mom bloggers” and this one for moms of all littles is one of my favorite posts of hers. I also like “Before I Had a Seven Year Old.”
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Xantippe
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Maybe make out a “budget” of how you currently spend your time and money and then make a wish list of things you would like (activities, goods, services) and start figuring which things to substitute? Then talk to your husband to see if he has any further suggestions as to how to get from your current time and money budget to your preferred one.
I don’t think as hard as I ought to about time, but I do maintain both a written monthly budget every month and a huge wish list (for both stuff and services). As funds appear, I have a look at my wish lists to figure out what the priorities are.
Every family is different, but in our family, we tend to prioritize services over stuff. So, for instance, there was (and I’m not kidding about this) a nearly five year period where we had cleaning help but no car. It was an unusual situation that made that possible (a very good transportation and neighborhood set-up–I was 8 minute walk from the pediatrician’s office), and it wouldn’t work for everybody, but it was the right choice for us at the time.
Later on, we also prioritized private school and living very close to my husband’s work over other goals (like being able to buy a house faster or having a second car).
There’s also the issue of existing resources. Do you have stuff you aren’t using? Could it turn into something more useful to you–like a mother’s helper or a housecleaner? Is your insurance company or your phone company ripping you off?
I think I’d start by doing the full financial audit–figure out what your priorities are and if that is reflected in your current budget.
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ToeInTheWater
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I agree with this part as well, and I’d also like to state I certainly don’t think it’s ideal to have parenting arrangements that cuts the father out of any significant role in their children’s lives, except as a financial provider and occasional disciplinarian.
Stories of men juggling three jobs to support their families, or even traveling away from them to get seasonal work, might sound heroic on the surface, but I’ve also known kids growing up in such families, where it was very difficult to tell the difference between such households, and those where the father was officially out of the picture, and the only involvement they had in their children’s lives, were sending child support checks. And as we’ve all seen with the advent of the welfare state, the government can cut that check too.
And unfortunately, in extreme cases, men who leave their families in search of extra cash to support them, wind up abandoning them and never coming back. I have heard this is unfortunately the case for many immigrant men, that they often start new families in the US and wind up abandoning their families back home.
Now, of course objectively such men are sinning. But touting models of marriage and fatherhood that state “A man should do everything possible to keep the mother of his kids for working outside the home at all” seem to set up many such situations.
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Xantippe
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Very good! I’m such a huge fan of preschool.
Just before we had our third (and during our third’s babyhood), I had many opportunities to reflect that with two school age children, I have STAFF.
My oldest are 13 and 10 now and with appropriate encouragement, they:
–clean their rooms
–use those amazing Clorox Toilet Wands (I provided each with one several years ago)
–tidy the living room and playroom
–unload the dishwasher
–wash windows (we did that this summer–we paid them but they worked really cheap)
–play with the toddler
–get ready for school and make themselves lunches
The oldest has also been cooking more and more the last couple years and has decorated some exquisite birthday and holiday cakes for our family. She also did the toddler’s parents’ day out collage homework for me this past week–such a relief. Middle kid is also very helpful in the yard (for instance, picking up twigs).
Obviously, there’s still a lot to teach them (loading the dishwasher, heavy cleaning and laundry), but I’m very happy with where they are now. But it took so long to get where we are today. They’re not born 8 years old.
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bitterhope
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You know, those of us that actually love raising our big families and are joyful in our vocations know that life is hard. Sometimes it downright sucks even. But you know, we got over it and noticed that the happier we are, the happier our kids are. We noticed that by not allowing work to pile up, we could stay on top of things instead of getting overwhelmed. We started realizing that life got easier the less we looked around for somebody to help us out because that left that energy inside us to work on solutions, which in turn gives us confidence. We have learned not to look at ourselves the way the secular world does and instead see the gifts God has provided along the way. It gets really old hearing advice on a Catholic forum that mirrors what is given by the rest of the world. Hire help, send your kids to child care/school, go see a therapist, avoid having so many kids, all of these things are what people can get from any website, neighbor, newspaper, or cashier at Walmart. What about Catholics assuring one another that living out our vocations actually isn’t being a baby factory and being a mom/dad is contributing to society in more significant ways than any other profession. How about reminding people that there is no shame in struggling but through those struggles we become who God intended for us to be. How about telling people that by bending our own will to match God’s will is what leads to the path of peace and joy and is so much less tiring than trying to make God see that our plans are much better than His. There are reasons why there are so many upper income moms with tons of outside help with only one or two kids that still are miserable and worn out while there are many low income moms that have more kids with no outside help that are happy and peaceful. The general world has always found us weird and has looked down on us, and now the Catholic world does too.
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jmjZelie
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Bitterhope,
I am one of those struggling right now. I have reached a level of exhaustion that I never knew existed. I don’t know anything about income level vs. # of children and amount of help. Both your contributions and Xantippe’s contributions to this conversation are interesting to me. I am doing something that has never been done in my family before. We are also converts. I don’t know how to make it work. One side says that doing it all alone without help was never the norm so it makes sense that I would struggle and fail. You say that most people never had the luxury of help anyway and it sounds almost like your view is that those who struggle are selfish or something. Please correct me if I am wrong. All I know is that I wanted my larger family, I want to be a good wife and mother and homeschool parent, but I have no support and no models and very little sleep. Rather than being upset or offended by a thread such as this, could you perhaps share your hard-earned wisdom on how to make it work? Because I am drowning here and I need a lifeline.
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Xantippe
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I’ll respond more later, but just for now, I’d like to note that the Practical Conservative is basically arguing that it isn’t reasonable to expect an unaided mother to do the following:
- have a large family
- homeschool
- have an exquisitely clean and tidy home
- produce a totally homemade from-scratch hot dinner every single night
Bear in mind that there are a lot of good Christian mothers out there who are struggling because they and/or their husbands believe that they need to do 1-4 and they must be slacking if 1-4 aren’t happening.
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jediliz
Guest
My brother and sister in law have four children, but they weren’t all at home at once (except summer vacation). My sil was a speech pathologist at a school until their second was born and then she decided to stay home. She watched her sister’s oldest who is a month older than her second, so it was like watching twins for a few months. I think the most that were at home full time was two…
They lived in an apartment until their oldest was 11 months and then moved into their own home in time for her first birthday.
Where does the 100k come from anyway? Is that assuming more than 2.5 children?
They lived in an apartment until their oldest was 11 months and then moved into their own home in time for her first birthday.
Where does the 100k come from anyway? Is that assuming more than 2.5 children?
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Convert_in_99
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Convert_in_99
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I don’t think the average family has $100,000 a year. Even in America. But it makes sense. We struggle paycheck to paycheck with $45,000 a year for just us 2!
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