Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 841?!?

[Earnest_Bunbury]

1 John:

22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23**No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. **

The Bible cannot be taken out of the context of the Rule of Faith, the Catholic Church. To do so makes your interpretation of it the rule in opposition to your neighbor who interprets it differently. Luther cut himself off from the authority given to the Apostles by Jesus:

18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Let us continue with 1 John 2:

24 As for you, let that abide in you which ye heard from the beginning. If that which ye heard from the beginning abide in you, ye also shall abide in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise which he promised us, even the life eternal.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that would lead you astray.

27 And as for you, the anointing which ye received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any one teach you; but as his anointing teacheth you; concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him.

28 And now, my little children, abide in him; that, if he shall be manifested, we may have boldness, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one also that doeth righteousness is begotten of him.

There are many things Jesus did not written and Jesus told His disciples to teach in His Name, this is what they did and the letters in the Bible tell those to hold fast to what they were given by word of mouth in response to those who wanted to lead them astray from the true faith of the Apostles. The true faith of the Apostles is the Apostolic teaching of the Catholic Church.

The Church now wants to use the incomplete faith of Islam to evangelize and bring them home to the Kingdom of God on earth, Christianity. This is better than using the Word of God to condemn them as unworthy to hear the Word of God because they don’t believe in the Word of God. Not only is this illogical, but only serves to “puff up” with pride those who do believe, as we are thus better then they are. Contemptible and wrong and opposed to Jesus Who wants to draw all people to Himself.

 

[matahari]

The spiritual and the physical you related to in the previous posts are just what you seem to forget in other aspects of religion. the spiritual is made visible through the material world we live in, something you don’t deny I bet, but the spiritual aspects of the Catholic Church is bad if you can’t see it in the Bible.

Actually I meant spiritual meaning heavenly. Those who believe in Jesus will be saved. Anyways, in regards to the Blessed Virgin, one day while listening to Relevant Radio they were talking about consecrating oneself to Mary. So naturally I looked on line to read up on what this meant. On this page (I tried looking up the site again but do not know what site it was) it defined How to Worhip Mary. It had a whole paragraph on instructions on how to worship Mary. The site was one that first started off by explaining the consecration then as I scrolled down it gave instructions on how to worship Mary and how this one saint described it.

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OK…You say those who believe in Jesus will be saved. Does that include the devils? since the Bible states " The devils believe and tremble .But does thou want to know O senseless man , that faith without works is useless?Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?" Jas.2: 19-21 Martin Luther did not like the Epistle of St.James as it did not agree with his thesis of " Faith Alone "

With regards to Mary , the Mother of Jesus - As a cradle Catholic devotion to the Mother of the Lord has always been part and parcel of my faith. I realise that Protestants struggle with any acknowledgment of Mary. But we understand that when Jesus was dying on the Cross and He gave Mary to John “Behold your mother” that Mary was given to us also . She is now " the Mother of all who live in Christ "

You insist in saying that Catholics worship Mary. Catholics honour Mary. Not the same thing. I love my parents my husband and my children - I even honour them. However, I do not worship them as that would be a sin against the First Commandment . While
we’re on the subject of Mary - In Luke 1:28 the original greeting of the Angel to Mary
was "Hail , full of grace " which was a reference to her Sinlessness . But that got watered down in Protestant Bibles to become " Hail O highly favoured one "

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Let me ask you a few more questions Oscar Why does the world need Jesus as the sacrificing lamb if others, to include athiests, Hindus, Buddists, mushroom worshippers :thumbsup:don’t have to come to Jesus to be saved? I’m being serious, just think of what the Catholic Church is saying for a minutes. If one can obtain salvation through their own way of being led to God then why did Jesus have to die for us. Why would anyone have to find Jesus if all of those people are being saved because they are in their own heart searching for God? Why did God in man form come down to have to die for us?

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Please read Romans Ch.2 with special attention to V 12 - 16 for the answer to this

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Last question and thanks for answering, Didn’t the Catholic Church kill numberous people because they would not join the church or fell away from the church? Am I wrong or wasn’t that what the crusades were all about? (two questions but one was a sub question)
Thank you,
Brian

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The Crusades were about protecting and reclaiming the Holiest places in Christendom which had been ravaged by the Mahommedans .

Hope my answers have been helpful,
Tonette

 

[sprocket1984]

OK, I’ll just say my piece then and leave this site. I had no idea that things would get so unclear.

well, may God bless you all and thanks for your sincerity.

Brian

 

[itsjustdave1988]

This concept behind paragraph 841 was invented at Vatican II by Paul VI. I wish someone could show me where in church history it was ever taught that Muslims and Christians worshiped the same God.

I already have, in post #85. From Pope Gregory VII (1073-1085), to the Muslim King Anzir of Maurentania:

“… we believe in and confess the same God, although by different modes (licet diverso modo), that we praise and venerate each day the Creator of the ages and master of this world” [St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir (Al-Nasir), King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451A.]

Your claim that this was invented by Paul VI is ridiculous.

Islam is a false religion, as it teaches false doctrine about God.

 

[MountainRecluse]

Ah, an Islam apologist.

“same God”

“same”

Same means equals, or qualifies as…

This is a false, and heretical understanding, that Allah = the trinity.

Allah, is not the “same” as the trinity. If Allah was the “same” as the trinity then there would be no wrong understanding. It needs correcting because it is wrong, and false, like Jesus warned us. Remember Jesus? The third part of the trinity…? Jesus = God

Therefore, those who reject Jesus, reject God.

I can make up a god right now, on the spot, and call myself a prophet of god! I’m a prophet of god. Yes, my god rides around under the ocean on a barge made of croutons! And when I die, I am going to eat peanut butter soup in a flying saucer and have 20 husbands that god will give me.
Oh yes, and did I tell you, “TOGETHER WITH (Catholics) we adore the one merciful God.”

I have to agree. Why do we find many statements like THIS:

*2 John 1

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.*

Ouchies…

But I understand that I am no longer under the proper teaching authority of the magisterium and this doesn’t mean how it reads…pre-Vatican II Catholics would have agreed…