Catholic bishop: battle for same-sex ‘marriage’ destroying U.S. democracy

[Santi2]

This help to expose the widespread lies about the acceptability of homosexuality in the ancient world.

youtube.com/watch?v=aHk9JoXoBMY

Enjoy the music too!

Thanks for the link, Charlemagne! Enjoyed the music as well.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Santi2 You are welcome!

 

[Alan55]

Um, he is exercising his right under freedom of speech to recommend (not dictate) policy decisions. Same as other “members of the ruling classes of [other religious] special interest groups” do. Many of the latter don’t happen to agree with the Catholic bishops. Other religious congregations and traditions recommend contrary policy decisions, as is their right, as well.

Plenty of priests, ministers, and rabbis exhorted their followers (whoops, I mean, “demanded the right to dictate policy decisions”) to stand with civil rights demonstrators in those movements as well.

Wait: That must be wrong. The Left must be able to dictate to religious authorities what they can and cannot say in this country. (Race relations = acceptable; marriage and family policy = unacceptable).

Agree with The Left? You get to have a voice, even if you are a representative of a religious institution and a believer as well.

The good bishop is using an old tactic: in the name of democracy, accuse your opponents of using anti-democratic methods to subvert the “will of the people” (for whom you are a spokesman, of course). The fact is that homosexual unions are more and more acceptable to Americans, and in some places, supporters are in the majority. In those places, laws have passed (or bans overturned) to permit marrigages. The bishops think that’s terrible, of course. They are entitled to think that way, but the “will of the people” doesn’t always support Church teaching on the subject. I don’t agree that “members of the ruling class” – whoever that’s supposed to be: the President? Members of Congress? the Kennedys? The super-rich? – or special interest groups are subverting the political process. The Catholic Church is on the losing end of this debate in some parts of the country and it is fighting back hard. Democracy at work.

 

[GBR1]

This is pretty rich coming from a member of the ruling class of a special interest group which demands the right to dictate policy decisions to elected officials who happen to be members of their Church. Anybody who believes the bishops are guardians of democracy and pluralism…I have some prime real estate in Benghazi you may be interested in…

Bishops may not be the guardians of democracy and pluralism, but they are shepherds who are in charge of the moral well-being of their flocks. If one of the members of their local church is an elected politician who supports abortion, gay marriage, or anything else contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then the bishop has a grave responsibility to let him/her know that what they are doing is morally wrong and damaging to their souls.

This is to say nothing of the people in these same-sex relationship. I see that you have pagan as your religion, so obviously you don’t believe in many of teachings of the Church. But I’d like you to consider something for a second. Assume, for a minute, that the Catholic Church is right about Jesus, heaven, hell, morality, and other teachings affecting this situation. Now here are 2 situations to consider:

In the first one the bishop warns elected officials who are Catholic that same sex marriage is incompatible with Catholicism and that they cannot be a good Catholic and support it. Most of the officials ignore the bishop, but one takes his words to heart and changes his stance. He and the bishop are ridiculed for this, and most of the gay community drops their support for him, but through his efforts one gay man comes to realize that while he is not at fault for being attracted to other men, the Church is right to call him to a life of chastity. In this scenario 3 souls have been saved, the bishop’s, the politician’s and the gay man’s.

In the other scenario the bishop remains silent, so the elected official has no reason to stop supporting gay marriage, and the gay man sees no reason to turn from his lifestyle. Oh sure the Bible has a few passages that seem to be against homosexuality, and the Vatican is always saying it is immoral, but who listens to them in this day and age? So all 3 continue in their ways until their deaths. Now it is far above me to judge the state of any soul, so I won’t say they go to hell, but I would say that all three have put their salvation in serious jeopardy. The bishop because of his cowardice and unwillingness to proclaim the truth, the politician because he put the things of this world ahead of the things of God, and the gay man because of his immoral relationship.

Now my point in posting all this is not to try and convert you, although I do pray that everyone eventually comes home to the Catholic faith and finds the peace that only Jesus Christ can give. No, my point here is that from a Catholic perspective the bishop did the right thing, and that the alternative is not only wrong, it is actually the worst possible thing you could do to someone who is gay.

I do agree that gay people’s rights must be protected, some of the violence that members of that community have suffered from those who hate them is truly awful, although as noted earlier it is nothing compared to what black people had to suffer. But those of us who instruct them to a life of chastity do not hate them, in fact we love them and want them to share in the splendor of heaven with us. And while their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness must be protected, their desire to alter Our Lord’s plan for marriage must be opposed. First of all because it is a sin against God, but also because it is harmful for them, even if they don’t realize it.

Humbly in Christ,
-James

 

[kenofken]

Bishops may not be the guardians of democracy and pluralism, but they are shepherds who are in charge of the moral well-being of their flocks. If one of the members of their local church is an elected politician who supports abortion, gay marriage, or anything else contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then the bishop has a grave responsibility to let him/her know that what they are doing is morally wrong and damaging to their souls.

This is to say nothing of the people in these same-sex relationship. I see that you have pagan as your religion, so obviously you don’t believe in many of teachings of the Church. But I’d like you to consider something for a second. Assume, for a minute, that the Catholic Church is right about Jesus, heaven, hell, morality, and other teachings affecting this situation. Now here are 2 situations to consider:

In the first one the bishop warns elected officials who are Catholic that same sex marriage is incompatible with Catholicism and that they cannot be a good Catholic and support it. Most of the officials ignore the bishop, but one takes his words to heart and changes his stance. He and the bishop are ridiculed for this, and most of the gay community drops their support for him, but through his efforts one gay man comes to realize that while he is not at fault for being attracted to other men, the Church is right to call him to a life of chastity. In this scenario 3 souls have been saved, the bishop’s, the politician’s and the gay man’s.

In the other scenario the bishop remains silent, so the elected official has no reason to stop supporting gay marriage, and the gay man sees no reason to turn from his lifestyle. Oh sure the Bible has a few passages that seem to be against homosexuality, and the Vatican is always saying it is immoral, but who listens to them in this day and age? So all 3 continue in their ways until their deaths. Now it is far above me to judge the state of any soul, so I won’t say they go to hell, but I would say that all three have put their salvation in serious jeopardy. The bishop because of his cowardice and unwillingness to proclaim the truth, the politician because he put the things of this world ahead of the things of God, and the gay man because of his immoral relationship.

Now my point in posting all this is not to try and convert you, although I do pray that everyone eventually comes home to the Catholic faith and finds the peace that only Jesus Christ can give. No, my point here is that from a Catholic perspective the bishop did the right thing, and that the alternative is not only wrong, it is actually the worst possible thing you could do to someone who is gay.

I do agree that gay people’s rights must be protected, some of the violence that members of that community have suffered from those who hate them is truly awful, although as noted earlier it is nothing compared to what black people had to suffer. But those of us who instruct them to a life of chastity do not hate them, in fact we love them and want them to share in the splendor of heaven with us. And while their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness must be protected, their desire to alter Our Lord’s plan for marriage must be opposed. First of all because it is a sin against God, but also because it is harmful for them, even if they don’t realize it.

Humbly in Christ,
-James

It’s quite understandable that a bishop would feel compelled to speak out and advocate his Church’s position, but the idea the they are the true guardians of “the will of the people” at large doesn’t wash. They don’t even have a solid majority of their own followers fully on board with them on this issue. The truth is, plain and simple, that public opinion on this issue in general in Western societies is turning against their position. To then deny that reality and suggest that the people’s “true will” is being hijacked by some nebulous “elites” is a manipulative fear tactic of the sort used by populists and dictators all over the world. It is not worthy of their stated commitment to be a voice of truth in the world…

 

[John21652]

A privilege. Just as it has always been, and continues to be for heterosexual couples, who have never been guraranteed a child as a “right.”

And a “privilege” they should not be granted.

Study Suggests Children Raised by LGBT Parents More Likely to Grow
Up Gay or Bisexual.

 

[RobbyS]

Homosexuality isn’t unnatural. It’s quite common among animals. Do you honestly think people choose to be gay?

Last time I checked slavery used to be the law of the land in your state of Texas. That is unconstitutional because you are stripping one human beings or his rights and equality. Homosexuality doesn’t strip anyone of there rights. It’s homosexuals who’s rights are being stripped.

Depends on what one means by natural. By your definition, all sin is natural. As for the comparison with slavery, you are comparing apples and oranges. Slavery is a form of involuntary servitude (go read the 13th amendment). Homosexuality is sex between persons of the same gender. So slavery is more like hard labor in prison, or the military draft, or more closely, indentured service. Homosexuality is more like prostitution, or more closely, unmarried sex between a man and a woman.