Catholic Bishop Returns Petitions to Ousted Gay Parish Volunteer

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A petition with many names was sent to the bishop asking reinstatement of a gay man (who had just married another man) back into his volunteer parish activities. The bishop sent the petition back with a one-line cover letter saying only FROM YOUR FAITHFUL CATHOLIC BISHOP. A diocesan spokesman said that, unlike legitimate correspondance, an online petition of this nature lacks legitimacy.
see www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/catholic-bishop-returns-petitions-to-ousted-gay-man/2013/04/25/fb501d7e-adea-11e2-b240-9ef3a72c67cc_story.html
 
mdgspencer said:
A petition with many names was sent to the bishop asking reinstatement of a gay man (who had just married another man) back into his volunteer parish activities. The bishop sent the petition back with a one-line cover letter saying only FROM YOUR FAITHFUL CATHOLIC BISHOP. A diocesan spokesman said that, unlike legitimate correspondance, an online petition of this nature lacks legitimacy.
see www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/catholic-bishop-returns-petitions-to-ousted-gay-man/2013/04/25/fb501d7e-adea-11e2-b240-9ef3a72c67cc_story.html
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18,500 names on 300 pages.

I’m surprised the Bishop responded this way. Even if it was a media stunt designed to put him in a bad spot, one would think he would take advantage of the situation and use it as a teachable moment. Now he appears arrogant and disinterested. Not good.
 
bellasbane said:
18,500 names on 300 pages.

I’m surprised the Bishop responded this way. Even if it was a media stunt designed to put him in a bad spot, one would think he would take advantage of the situation and use it as a teachable moment. Now he appears arrogant and disinterested. Not good.
Click to expand...
He already taught. It is the petitioners who appear arrogant.
 
bellasbane said:
18,500 names on 300 pages.

I’m surprised the Bishop responded this way. Even if it was a media stunt designed to put him in a bad spot, one would think he would take advantage of the situation and use it as a teachable moment. Now he appears arrogant and disinterested. Not good.
Click to expand...
I agree, he should have handled it better. I also agree with the Bishop that online surveys mean nothing but he should have explained that it wouldn’t be proper to be a religious education teacher, lector or altar server when you are not in communion with the Church. This goes for divorced people who remarry, people living in sin, etc. His response makes it seem like he’s not welcome at all which of course is wrong.

ETA: on further thought maybe he is just sick of repeating himself and his response was appropriate.
 
J_Peterson said:
I agree, he should have handled it better. I also agree with the Bishop that online surveys mean nothing but he should have explained that it wouldn’t be proper to be a religious education teacher, lector or altar server when you are not in communion with the Church. This goes for divorced people who remarry, people living in sin, etc. His response makes it seem like he’s not welcome at all which of course is wrong.
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How many times do we hear from other posters how we shouldn’t question our bishops? In this case, the bishop is following Church teaching/law. As far as I can see, he is basically saying, that this is not open to discussion…and he’s right.

In addition, the article makes it sound like the parishioner was ousted from church altogether. This was about his acting as an EM. He is still a member of the church in question. He is not allowed, per Church law, to act as an EM.
 
bellasbane said:
18,500 names on 300 pages.

I’m surprised the Bishop responded this way. Even if it was a media stunt designed to put him in a bad spot, one would think he would take advantage of the situation and use it as a teachable moment. Now he appears arrogant and disinterested. Not good.
Click to expand...
J_Peterson said:
I agree, he should have handled it better. I also agree with the Bishop that online surveys mean nothing but he should have explained that it wouldn’t be proper to be a religious education teacher, lector or altar server when you are not in communion with the Church. This goes for divorced people who remarry, people living in sin, etc. His response makes it seem like he’s not welcome at all which of course is wrong.

ETA: on further thought maybe he is just sick of repeating himself and his response was appropriate.
Click to expand...
This Bishop and most others no something that you will never admit, no matter what he said in reply the same result would be received. The militant lgbt groups want nothing more than to force their views on everyone. The main hurdle for them is the Catholic Church.

We are quite ignorant and naive to believe this is not the beginning of the current day persecutions of Church leaders and all clergy. This will lead to lawsuits and eventually down the road legal battles and charges against the Church’s clergy. There is no possibility of Mother Church changing what She holds as truth. This man is representation of worldly scandal and this Bishop has acted justly and rightly. Had he made the exact statements you suggest he would be criticized anyway. I think his response was perfect. He is just what he said he is, A FAITHFUL ROMAN CATHOLIC BISHOP.

Praise God for Bishops like him!
 
Lapey said:
This Bishop and most others no something that you will never admit, no matter what he said in reply the same result would be received. The militant lgbt groups want nothing more than to force their views on everyone. The main hurdle for them is the Catholic Church.
We are quite ignorant and naive to believe this is not the beginning of the current day persecutions of Church leaders and all clergy. This will lead to lawsuits and eventually down the road legal battles and charges against the Church’s clergy. There is no possibility of Mother Church changing what She holds as truth. This man is representation of worldly scandal and this Bishop has acted justly and rightly. Had he made the exact statements you suggest he would be criticized anyway. I think his response was perfect. He is just what he said he is, A FAITHFUL ROMAN CATHOLIC BISHOP.

Praise God for Bishops like him!
Click to expand...
I agree. No answer will be accepted unless it is capitulation to their viewpoint. I heard an exchange between Fr. Leo P and a former Catholic who vented about homosexuals being “chased away” from the Church. Although he patiently explained that having SSA is not a sin, but acting contrary to Church teachings is not acceptable, she would have none of it and finally hung up after shouting “You are just talking over me!” It was agree with me or else!!!

Recently a Belgian (I think ) Bishop was attacked by topless, screaming feminists. You are right, they will not live and let live but will even physically attack those who disagree with them.

Lisa
 
Glad to see that this Bishop had the fortitude to not give in to pressure.
 
bellasbane said:
18,500 names on 300 pages.

I’m surprised the Bishop responded this way. Even if it was a media stunt designed to put him in a bad spot, one would think he would take advantage of the situation and use it as a teachable moment. Now he appears arrogant and disinterested. Not good.
Click to expand...
It’s well known you cannot be an openly practicing gay and in good standing in the Catholic Church.
It’s time to be short blunt and to the point.
I agree with the Bishop.
 
Further: Returning the petition in this manner emphasizes two important points of the Church.
**
One: The Church is not a democracy.** You don’t get to vote for what you like and what you don’t like–especially if teaching is quite clear on what the rules are, and particularly if you aren’t Catholic.
**
Two: This is a pastoral matter and requires the individual involved to discuss it privately**. For a petition to be used not only increases its scandal to the person involved but requires the bishop, as he did in kind, to not comment on pastoral matters by ignoring the submission. The same result could be expected of a bishop of a politician that, say, is publicly in scandal with the Church. Any public demand for information about this parishioner would likely be refused as it’s a private matter.

The Church is also backed up here by the Supreme Court, specifically, EEOC v Hosanna-Tabor, a recent case where the Court determined that a church has the right to decide who and who is not a church minister in matters where church rules are broken by a member. In this case, the Church has the right to say to an extraordinary minister, “you are not in good standing” and revoke that special ministry. Legally, this case can go nowhere.
 
Spencerian said:
Further: Returning the petition in this manner emphasizes two important points of the Church.
**
One: The Church is not a democracy.** You don’t get to vote for what you like and what you don’t like–especially if teaching is quite clear on what the rules are, and particularly if you aren’t Catholic.
**
Two: This is a pastoral matter and requires the individual involved to discuss it privately**. For a petition to be used not only increases its scandal to the person involved but requires the bishop, as he did in kind, to not comment on pastoral matters by ignoring the submission. The same result could be expected of a bishop of a politician that, say, is publicly in scandal with the Church. Any public demand for information about this parishioner would likely be refused as it’s a private matter.

The Church is also backed up here by the Supreme Court, specifically, EEOC v Hosanna-Tabor, a recent case where the Court determined that a church has the right to decide who and who is not a church minister in matters where church rules are broken by a member. In this case, the Church has the right to say to an extraordinary minister, “you are not in good standing” and revoke that special ministry. Legally, this case can go nowhere.
Click to expand...
The Bishop is exhibiting the cultural arrogance of a man out of touch. He is a ranking official for a world wide organisation that has as its local leaders some individualism who are guilty of the most revolting sexual behaviour ever exposed in modern times. He needs to fulfil his role as a teacher and a leader and quit behaving like a medieval aristocrat. Those days are over
 
Jimmygill88 said:
The Bishop is exhibiting the cultural arrogance of a man out of touch. He is a ranking official for a world wide organisation that has as its local leaders some individualism who are guilty of the most revolting sexual behaviour ever exposed in modern times. He needs to fulfil his role as a teacher and a leader and quit behaving like a medieval aristocrat. Those days are over
Click to expand...
He did exactly what you say he should have done, except not through the lenses of the world in secularist’s views. The arrogance is on the other side, not the bishop. You are demanding he play the game of these radicals who want everyone to “feel” like they do and all live together as everyone wants in their own little “truth”. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

This bishop is responsible for this person’s immortal soul, not making sure we don’t look like an organization of “medieval aristocrats.” He is fulfilling his role as teacher and shepherd of souls. How can bowing to a media driven ploy do anything that would lead into a positive outcome and stay within the guidelines of the teachings of the Church, the one Truth that sits at the head of Mother Church, Jesus.
 
Jimmygill88 said:
The Bishop is exhibiting the cultural arrogance of a man out of touch. He is a ranking official for a world wide organisation that has as its local leaders some individualism who are guilty of the most revolting sexual behaviour ever exposed in modern times. He needs to fulfil his role as a teacher and a leader and quit behaving like a medieval aristocrat. Those days are over
Click to expand...
Here’s something to consider.

The Church was founded by Christ.

It is the oldest institution in the world. It has outlived scandals and war, from within and without. It will outlive you, me, and the current trend to justify bad behavior through public mob censure and using government as a bully pulpit and stick.

It keeps its teachings consistent over all this time, for what is good remains good and, as St. Paul asks, continually tested to make sure of this.

The Church is not a house of saints but a hospital of sinners. From laity to bishop, we all aim to fulfill our roles and sometimes fall, spectacularly. But failure in a few does not change the teaching that some things are wrong and others are not.

The Church is not concerned with culture, therefore it cannot have “culture arrogance.” It is concerned with the salvation of people. No matter if 1 or 1 million say, “We want this,” it takes 1 man to say, “No. This is not right.” The bishop, as his predecessors before him, is doing the same thing.
 
I’ve always wondered, how could a homosexual be an active member of catholic church? I know there are a lot of christian homosexuals out there, but why would they choose the catholic church? The catholic church will not change it’s opinion about homosexuals not being able to getting married. However, I do not think it is the right way to sent a serving volunteer away… No matter what he/she has done. If we only want good people in our churches, we can throw everyone out i guess…

The question gets even harder when considering that people who have commited a moral sin should not receiving the eucharist. So how can a person who is in a same-sex marriage receive the eucharist?
 
Lapey said:
This Bishop and most others no something that you will never admit, no matter what he said in reply the same result would be received. The militant lgbt groups want nothing more than to force their views on everyone. The main hurdle for them is the Catholic Church.

We are quite ignorant and naive to believe this is not the beginning of the current day persecutions of Church leaders and all clergy. This will lead to lawsuits and eventually down the road legal battles and charges against the Church’s clergy. There is no possibility of Mother Church changing what She holds as truth. This man is representation of worldly scandal and this Bishop has acted justly and rightly. Had he made the exact statements you suggest he would be criticized anyway. I think his response was perfect. He is just what he said he is, A FAITHFUL ROMAN CATHOLIC BISHOP.

Praise God for Bishops like him!
Click to expand...
:amen:
 
Spencerian said:
Further: Returning the petition in this manner emphasizes two important points of the Church.
**
One: The Church is not a democracy.** You don’t get to vote for what you like and what you don’t like–especially if teaching is quite clear on what the rules are, and particularly if you aren’t Catholic.
**
Two: This is a pastoral matter and requires the individual involved to discuss it privately**. For a petition to be used not only increases its scandal to the person involved but requires the bishop, as he did in kind, to not comment on pastoral matters by ignoring the submission. The same result could be expected of a bishop of a politician that, say, is publicly in scandal with the Church. Any public demand for information about this parishioner would likely be refused as it’s a private matter.

The Church is also backed up here by the Supreme Court, specifically, EEOC v Hosanna-Tabor, a recent case where the Court determined that a church has the right to decide who and who is not a church minister in matters where church rules are broken by a member. In this case, the Church has the right to say to an extraordinary minister, “you are not in good standing” and revoke that special ministry. Legally, this case can go nowhere.
Click to expand...
:clapping: Well said.
 
mdgspencer said:
A petition with many names was sent to the bishop asking reinstatement of a gay man (who had just married another man) back into his volunteer parish activities. The bishop sent the petition back with a one-line cover letter saying only FROM YOUR FAITHFUL CATHOLIC BISHOP. A diocesan spokesman said that, unlike legitimate correspondance, an online petition of this nature lacks legitimacy.
see www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/catholic-bishop-returns-petitions-to-ousted-gay-man/2013/04/25/fb501d7e-adea-11e2-b240-9ef3a72c67cc_story.html
Click to expand...
Good.
 
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