Catholic Bishops against Arizona legislation

  • Thread starter Thread starter fish90
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jermosh said:
This is a great point to why this law is horrid. Hispanics who have been part of the Arizona land who have families linking back before the US territory, are now subject to show there ID at the whim of a police officer. That’s from Nazism 101.
Click to expand...
I think the law is great! I have relatives In Mass and California who are hispanic background! Obey the law! Do not come here and break our laws.
 
catharina said:
It’s the overriding lack of charity that offends, especially since
it’s clearly coupled with and dependent on racial profiling.

It’s odious.
Click to expand...
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
 
Malkin71 said:
I think the law is great! I have relatives In Mass and California who are hispanic background! Obey the law! Do not come here and break our laws.
Click to expand...
Many many MANY MANY “illegals” became “legal” through amnesty?
Will you go after them too? How about a new amnesty?
 
catharina said:
Many many MANY MANY “illegals” became “legal” through amnesty?
Will you go after them too? How about a new amnesty?
Click to expand...
Depending on what you mean by Legal? They can be deported if they break the law while going through the process or have their card revoked! I know of a individual that owned a resturant here and was deported!

We do not need a new amnesty.

It does not solve any problems. Follow the law. Fill out the forms. Learn English. Pass the test and Welcome to America!
 
catharina said:
So why didn’t you give your source 'til asked for it.
How do you hope to establish any credibility with others???

Another current thread on CA:

*Why American Catholics are so unwelcoming of Mexican Catholics *… (paraphrase).

Might be enough to send folks straight to another church.
Click to expand...
I was getting tired and depending how you view it. It was late at night or early in the morning.
 
Malkin71 said:
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Click to expand...
Here is a link to the law.

codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325
 
Malkin71 said:
hispanic5.com/more_hispanics_leaving_catholicism_for_evangelical_protestantism.htm

Read for yourself.
Click to expand...
Now you review for yourself:

google.com/#hl=en&q=protestant+evangelization+in+mexico%2C+20th+century&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=protestant+evangelization+in+mexico%2C+20th+century&gs_rfai=&fp=2edb0d09f429b650

Your link provides a new view of old news.
Yes, the trend in Mexico of Americans wooing Catholics to Protestant groups is repeated.
However, the trend was already well-recognized in the mid 1960s.

Above, I provide ONE google search page with a FEW results.
Additional pages (references) are there too.

Most folks (in my life) have been aware of this trend for decades.
The Mexican govt had anti-Catholic laws active and on the books through the 1990s.
The Protestant “headway” is no surprise as it happened in Mexico.
Adding to that, it is no surprise to see it repeated here.

A sin of some Catholics is that their “nativist” stand includes
insulting Mexican CATHOLICS.
That’s some welcome to the USA. (Not.)
 
catharina said:
When government passes laws that rings the bell of memory
to " let’s round up the Jews," the govt has stepped over a line.
Click to expand...
So the US Government is Nazi Germany? Look who insulting now.
catharina said:
A sin of some Catholics is that their “nativist” stand includes
insulting Mexican CATHOLICS.
That’s some welcome to the USA. (Not.)
Click to expand...
Should Catholics who break the law not endure scorn from those Catholics who don’t?

You are so angry.
 
AnotherVoice said:
I agree with what you have written but it doesn’t feel right. These men are in positions of authority; in effect they represent the church when they speak. It troubles me every time I have to say – they don’t speak for me.

There is a crime wave in Arizona, people are dying because we can’t control our border. The bishops seem to support those that are breaking the law. I feel that once you have attained a certain level in any organization you have a responsibility to consider and speak for you entire constituency. It doesn’t appear that the bishops are doing that.
Click to expand...
I fully agree actually. The Catholic bishops have quite enough on their plate evangelizing the dogmatic teachings without venturing into a country’s politics. Comparing the law to fascism, as has been pointed out on another thread, is rather low, and shows the bishops’ hands to be be muddy right from the start.
From aligning themselves with Franco in fascist Spain, to aligning themselves with liberation theology in Latin America, Catholic bishops ventures into politics have often been rather less than stellar. Such a history might aid in informing us.

At best, the bishops stance on the issue may be seen to represent a misplaced pity and compassion for the illegals, and has absolutely no regard with the illegality that is associated with being an illegal. Moreover, they demonstrate a total disregard for the idea that drug cartels control much of the Mexican economy and what is being enabled is the proliferation of that culture onto the northern side of the border. The law is being dealt yet another blow, this time by those who ought to be examples of teh deepest respect for law and order.
Moreover, the pity is displaced because an illegal workforce is a vulnerable workforce. This serves the purposes of laissez-faire (lawless) capitalism quite well too.

At best then, pity. At worst, this is is merely the politics of demographics, as the bishops of Quebec once played, where the goal is to fill up the pews of the churches, create a more Catholic Arizona with no regard to any laws that might be broken.

It saddens me that Catholics of Arizona are being put in the position of choosing between lawfulness and the politics of their bishops. All’s that can be said is that the laity are being called to choose between the authority of the Catholic teaching and the authoritism of bishops using their esteemed position to push their own agenda.

My understanding of Vatican II is that the Catholic laity are obliged to Catholic teaching only. The political will of bishops, when it is not clearly a message of Catholic dogma, is in the realm of politics and not faith. Catholics in fact ought to take a stand against bishops misusing their positions of authority in this way.

Respect the office, but not necessarily the personal politics of the office-holder?
It is like walking on eggs in Arizona now.😦
 
canadianguy1143 said:
So the US Government is Nazi Germany? Look who insulting now.

Should Catholics who break the law not endure scorn from those Catholics who don’t?

You are so angry.
Click to expand...
You surely do exaggerate, don’t you?
I said that a certain path taken reminds ME of “let’s round up the Jews.”
I have many Jewish relatives. Of course, I’m reminded … .

I am extremely angry about other “Catholics” who support legalized abortion.
It’s legal so they’re “fine” with it.

Are we as Catholics called to scorn others? No.
We are called to defend and support Church teaching.
My guess? Many bishops are far more angry than I and the anger is justified.
I they need to remind all of “first, in all things, charity” I’m all for it.
 
catharina said:
You surely do exaggerate, don’t you?
Click to expand...
No, I directly quoted you. If its an exaggeration, its on your part.

catharina;6568143I said that a certain path taken reminds ME of “let’s round up the Jews.” said:
And who did round up the Jews? Oh gee, Nazi Germany among others. Certainly they were the ones most famous for it

catharina;6568143 said:
This thread/issue isn’t about abortion.

catharina;6568143 said:
Sometimes, its cruel to be kind.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Neil_Anthony said:
It’s out of concern for the poor migrant workers. They want to help these poor people by letting them live and work where the situation is best for them (in the USA).

Not automatically, but perhaps one day you’ll have to explain to Jesus why, when his children were hungry and he was looking for work, you supported laws that had him arrested and deported. Maybe your explanation will be good enough, but thats between Him and you 😉
Click to expand...
How about making sure that my poor American neighbor down the street, also trying to feed a hungry family, could find work? Or don’t Americans count?

Americans will do a lot of the so-called “immigrant” jobs to take care of their families. I know…I work with a lot of other Americans doing exactly that. So please, let’s not make the assumption that only illegal immigrants, many of whom leave jobs in their own country, are the only ones who deserve consideration and compassion. Or that Americans do not have the right to protect their own society, culture, and nation.

Melvin
 
I am all for the Arizona legislation, we have enough illegal aliens in this country now, and I could care less what the Bishops think or say, the majority of them are nothing but liberals anyway, this is one of the reasons why we have so many problems in our church today, they ignore vatican authority.:mad:
 
fish90 said:
Can anybody explain why the bishops are against this measure? The only point that I can think of is the tearing apart of families, but why can immigration officials not deport entire families?

Is a layperson sinning when they disagree with the bishops’ stance on illegal immigration?

Best,
fish90

catholicnewsagency.com/news/religious_leaders_urge_arizona_governor_to_veto_anti-immigrant_bill/
Click to expand...
No. Furthermore, the bishops should not take a stand which amounts to saying that the border between the U.S. and Mexico ought to be treated the same way as the border between Arizona and California.
 
Renko said:
I am all for the Arizona legislation, we have enough illegal aliens in this country now, and I could care less what the Bishops think or say, the majority of them are nothing but liberals anyway, this is one of the reasons why we have so many problems in our church today, they ignore vatican authority.:mad:
Click to expand...
Really? And what Vatican authority would that be? Perhaps the US Bishops are just following what Pope John Paul II said:
“I was a stranger and you welcomed me” (Mt 25:35). It is the Church’s task not only to present constantly the Lord’s teaching of faith, but also to indicate its appropriate application to the various situations which the changing times continue to create. Today the illegal migrant comes before us like that “stranger” in whom Jesus asks to be recognized. To welcome him and to show him solidarity is a duty of hospitality and fidelity to Christian identity itself.
Click to expand...
From the Vatican, 25 July 1995
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP950725.HTM
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top