Catholic Bishops against Arizona legislation

[s4angel]

Really? And what Vatican authority would that be? Perhaps the US Bishops are just following what Pope John Paul II said:

I am sure that Jesus did not mean that the stranger could rape,rob or murder us, I did not think he said to sit by while others left someone to die in the desert alone and thirsting. I do not think that Jesus meant for us to have cheaper labor ( didn’t he say a worker is worth his wages?) I do not pretend to be smarter than the bishops and indeed my own came out against this bill but I think he is wrong this time. How many deaths do you think we will be able to prevent this year? Not just our citizens but those who have no voice?

 

[csuliman]

I am sure that Jesus did not mean that the stranger could rape,rob or murder us, I did not think he said to sit by while others left someone to die in the desert alone and thirsting. I do not think that Jesus meant for us to have cheaper labor ( didn’t he say a worker is worth his wages?) I do not pretend to be smarter than the bishops and indeed my own came out against this bill but I think he is wrong this time. How many deaths do you think we will be able to prevent this year? Not just our citizens but those who have no voice?

Sure, if the stranger rapes, robs or murders an individual they should be prosecuted. However, your argument makes sense only if all Mexican illigals were criminals, which is not true. Furthermore, I am not sure that Jesus would be opposed to jumping the fence in order to make some money to feed your family. The immorality belongs to those who exploit the illigal immigrants and pay them low wages. Personally, many of my Iraqi relatives have left Iraq due to violence and are now illigal or were illigal for some time in Europe. Should they obey the law and leave their families in harms way?

 

[catharina]

Sure, if the stranger rapes, robs or murders an individual they should be prosecuted. However, your argument makes sense only if all Mexican illigals were criminals, which is not true. Furthermore, I am not sure that Jesus would be opposed to jumping the fence in order to make some money to feed your family. The immorality belongs to those who exploit the illigal immigrants and pay them low wages. Personally, many of my Iraqi relatives have left Iraq due to violence and are now illigal or were illigal for some time in Europe. Should they obey the law and leave their families in harms way?

Bravo.

 

[Malkin71]

Now you review for yourself:

google.com/#hl=en&q=protestant+evangelization+in+mexico%2C+20th+century&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=protestant+evangelization+in+mexico%2C+20th+century&gs_rfai=&fp=2edb0d09f429b650

Your link provides a new view of old news.
Yes, the trend in Mexico of Americans wooing Catholics to Protestant groups is repeated.
However, the trend was already well-recognized in the mid 1960s.

Above, I provide ONE google search page with a FEW results.
Additional pages (references) are there too.

Most folks (in my life) have been aware of this trend for decades.
The Mexican govt had anti-Catholic laws active and on the books through the 1990s.
The Protestant “headway” is no surprise as it happened in Mexico.
Adding to that, it is no surprise to see it repeated here.

A sin of some Catholics is that their “nativist” stand includes
insulting Mexican CATHOLICS.
That’s some welcome to the USA. (Not.)

The point that I was refering to is the trend here in America.

A Parish here in Pittsburgh that was Polish was given to the Hispanics. How do you think the laity feels about the Mass in Spanish? They were ticked!

Also, what do you mean by Nativist? All Illegals are “Nativist” to their native country!

 

[s4angel]

Sure, if the stranger rapes, robs or murders an individual they should be prosecuted. However, your argument makes sense only if all Mexican illigals were criminals, which is not true. Furthermore, I am not sure that Jesus would be opposed to jumping the fence in order to make some money to feed your family. The immorality belongs to those who exploit the illigal immigrants and pay them low wages. Personally, many of my Iraqi relatives have left Iraq due to violence and are now illigal or were illigal for some time in Europe. Should they obey the law and leave their families in harms way?

I believe Jesus taught us to obey the law… I also believe Jesus said that a workman was worth his wages which the undocumented has no way of demanding. I would like to know what experiance you have in this situation at the border is? Do you live here? Have you tried to find a job here? Have you watched as people died in the desert becouse of human smugglers? How many "illigals have you fed today? How many gunshots did you hear last night from the ever present drug war on our border? How many locks do you have on your door? I have 4. I do not blame them I blame their government but enough is enough it is time that Mexico take care of the corruption that makes its citizens desperate enough to trust a human smuggler.

 

[catharina]

The point that I was refering to is the trend here in America.

A Parish here in Pittsburgh that was Polish was given to the Hispanics. How do you think the laity feels about the Mass in Spanish? They were ticked!

Also, what do you mean by Nativist? All Illegals are “Nativist” to their native country!

Your first point: the same thing has happened in Chicago -
the Church seeks to serve the newly arrived populations - as it must.
In Chicago, German, Italian, Polish parishes are not needed any longer -
as much as parishes that are able to serve the Spanish-speaking.
It’s our common history as a CHURCH.

I used nativist in its political sense:
nativism

**U.S. anti-immigrant movement, 1845, from native **(adj.) + -ism.Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source

na·tiv·ism (nā’tĭ-vĭz’əm)
n. 1.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.

One definition, for example,
from dictionary.reference.com/browse/nativist

Another:
na·tiv·ism   /ˈneɪtɪˌvɪzəm/ Show Spelled[ney-ti-viz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun

Origin:
1835–45, Americanism; native + -ism
—Related forms
na·tiv·ist, noun, adjective
na·tiv·is·tic, adjective
from same source.

**~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s a commonly used term among American historians.
Sorry if I should have defined the term for you.

The term came into common usage throught the Know Nothing party.
This party was RABIDLY anti-Catholic in its focus.

History is our friend - IMO.**

 

[AnotherVoice]

I believe Jesus taught us to obey the law… I also believe Jesus said that a workman was worth his wages which the undocumented has no way of demanding. I would like to know what experiance you have in this situation at the border is? Do you live here? Have you tried to find a job here? Have you watched as people died in the desert becouse of human smugglers? How many "illigals have you fed today? How many gunshots did you hear last night from the ever present drug war on our border? How many locks do you have on your door? I have 4. I do not blame them I blame their government but enough is enough it is time that Mexico take care of the corruption that makes its citizens desperate enough to trust a human smuggler.

It appears that your state legislature has also concluded that enough is enough. At least they are concerned for the welfare of the citizens of Arizona.

I do not hear the gun fire and I am very sorry that you and your family do hear it; hopefully you will all be safe. It seems that many do not appreciate how serious the situation is in Arizona. I would like to think that the Federal Government would bring order and end the terrorism on our own soil. It bothers me that you and your neighbors feel fear in your own homes.

Be safe and know that there are many who are saying a prayer for you.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I am sure that Jesus did not mean that the stranger could rape,rob or murder us,

No one has said that.

I did not think he said to sit by while others left someone to die in the desert alone and thirsting.

No one has said that either.

I do not think that Jesus meant for us to have cheaper labor ( didn’t he say a worker is worth his wages?)

Indeed, which is why I’m always surprised that when we address illegal immigraton our focus is always on the poor looking for wages rather than strongly and firmly going after the employers, companies, and corporations that exploit them.

 

[catharina]

No one has said that.

No one has said that either.

Indeed, which is why I’m always surprised that when we address illegal immigraton our focus is always on the poor looking for wages rather than strongly and firmly going after the employers, companies, and corporations that exploit them.

So right. Thanks.
Business protecting businesses and the he-- with the poor.

 

[Darryl1958]

Aren’t illegals bu definition engaged in illegal activity?

 

[Malkin71]

Your first point: the same thing has happened in Chicago -
the Church seeks to serve the newly arrived populations - as it must.
In Chicago, German, Italian, Polish parishes are not needed any longer -
as much as parishes that are able to serve the Spanish-speaking.
It’s our common history as a CHURCH.

I used nativist in its political sense:
nativism

**U.S. anti-immigrant movement, 1845, from native **(adj.) + -ism.Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source

na·tiv·ism (nā’tĭ-vĭz’əm)
n. 1.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.

One definition, for example,
from dictionary.reference.com/browse/nativist

Another:
na·tiv·ism   /ˈneɪtɪˌvɪzəm/ Show Spelled[ney-ti-viz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun

Origin:
1835–45, Americanism; native + -ism
—Related forms
na·tiv·ist, noun, adjective
na·tiv·is·tic, adjective
from same source.

**~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s a commonly used term among American historians.
Sorry if I should have defined the term for you.

The term came into common usage throught the Know Nothing party.
This party was RABIDLY anti-Catholic in its focus.

History is our friend - IMO.**

Why should we bend over backward to please Illegals who break our laws?
Why should we have signs in English and Spanish?
Why should we have applications in English and Spanish?
My ancesters came of the boat in the early 1900’s My Father’s side came over during the Russian Revolution. They came and did the proper way and learned English and assimilated. Why can’t the Illegals?

You can not serve two masters! You will like the one and dispise the other.

You are a American or not!

The Illegals are Nativists!

The only thing they care is to milk our system dry. They wave the Mexican or non American flags. They refuse to learn English. They will not follow the law and fill out the paperwork.

Can I ask you a question? What is wrong with making Illegals fill out the proper paperwork and go through the process to become U.S. Citizens, learn English to communicate and assimilate?

 

[Malkin71]

No one has said that.

No one has said that either.

Indeed, which is why I’m always surprised that when we address illegal immigraton our focus is always on the poor looking for wages rather than strongly and firmly going after the employers, companies, and corporations that exploit them.

The way to stop this is to fine all Employers, Companies and Corporations and landlords, rentors that hire, harbor, and give safe haven to Illegals. They will go back home.

 

[catharina]

Why should we bend over backward to please Illegals who break our laws?
Why should we have signs in English and Spanish?
Why should we have applications in English and Spanish?
My ancesters came of the boat in the early 1900’s My Father’s side came over during the Russian Revolution. They came and did the proper way and learned English and assimilated. Why can’t the Illegals?

You can not serve two masters! You will like the one and dispise the other.

You are a American or not!

The Illegals are Nativists!
**NO - they are not. **

The only thing they care is to milk our system dry. They wave the Mexican or non American flags. They refuse to learn English. They will not follow the law and fill out the paperwork.

Can I ask you a question? What is wrong with making Illegals fill out the proper paperwork and go through the process to become U.S. Citizens, learn English to communicate and assimilate?

You are so confused.
Do you read ANY responses to your posts?

One more time:

na·tiv·ism (nā’tĭ-vĭz’əm)
n. 1.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.

One definition, for example,
from dictionary.reference.com/browse/nativist

na·tiv·ist, noun, adjective

It's a commonly used term among American historians. 
Sorry if I should have defined the term for you.

**The term came into common usage through the Know Nothing party.
This party was RABIDLY anti-Catholic in its focus.  
It was literally known as a nativist political party.**
You can't invent definitions and pretend that people will accept them..

 

[RobbyS]

The way to stop this is to fine all Employers, Companies and Corporations and landlords, rentors that hire, harbor, and give safe haven to Illegals. They will go back home.

No way it can be done. These people control government. Both parties are beholden to them.

 

[Malkin71]

I am sure that Jesus did not mean that the stranger could rape,rob or murder us, I did not think he said to sit by while others left someone to die in the desert alone and thirsting. I do not think that Jesus meant for us to have cheaper labor ( didn’t he say a worker is worth his wages?) I do not pretend to be smarter than the bishops and indeed my own came out against this bill but I think he is wrong this time. How many deaths do you think we will be able to prevent this year? Not just our citizens but those who have no voice?

You are correct! Your and your family are in my prayers! I know of the news reports of Kidnapping, Drugs, Murder, MS13 gangs and the havoc that goes unreported in the mainstream news. There is a war going on and we are under attack! If the mainstream news reported what is going on allong the border and the south west, there would be an outcry for it to stop!

We had a retired Bishop from Little Rock, Arkansas come to our Parish two years ago. He told the laity in the pews to call your representatives for Immigration reform and to grant Illegals legal status. He asked for doantions at Mass to help the Migrants. Alot at Mass were ticked! I talked to the Bishop after Mass and told him how my Brother lost his job from outsourcing. The Bishop to me to “Get over it!” I learned the meaning of "Having respect for the Collar or Mitar. But, not having respect for the person wearing the Collar or Mitar!

 

[Jermosh]

I think the law is great! I have relatives In Mass and California who are hispanic background! Obey the law! Do not come here and break our laws.

So you think they should be pulled over and asked for ID just becuase they look illegal? This is what the “Law” allows for now.

 

[Malkin71]

You are so confused.
Do you read ANY responses to your posts?

One more time:

na·tiv·ism (nā’tĭ-vĭz’əm)
n. 1.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.

One definition, for example,
from dictionary.reference.com/browse/nativist

na·tiv·ist, noun, adjective

It's a commonly used term among American historians. 
Sorry if I should have defined the term for you.

**The term came into common usage through the Know Nothing party.
This party was RABIDLY anti-Catholic in its focus.  
It was literally known as a nativist political party.**
You can't invent definitions and pretend that people will accept them..

I am not confused. The Illegals are Nativists to their own “Native” Country. They wave and stand behind their own 'Native" Country’s flag. They speak and communicate in their own “Native” tongue. They hold beliefs and behavior to their 'Native" country!

The definition “.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.”
describes the illegals behavior!

If Muslims came into a neighborhood and started to tell people to remove all Catholic Statues, Crucifixes, and to convert to Islam. Should we give in because we should welcome the stranger?

 

[Malkin71]

No way it can be done. These people control government. Both parties are beholden to them.

There is a town in Eastern Pa. Hazelton, where the Mayor won on both Parties Democrat and Republican. His name is Lou Barletta. He is running for U.S. Congress. He did it and the citizens were happy!

 

[Malkin71]

So you think they should be pulled over and asked for ID just becuase they look illegal? This is what the “Law” allows for now.

Police on the job look for patters of behavior. They know the ones. Also, Business should be held responsible as well. They should do background checks on all employess.

Should people be profiled at airports because of 9-11?

 

[catharina]

I am not confused. The Illegals are Nativists to their own “Native” Country. They wave and stand behind their own 'Native" Country’s flag. They speak and communicate in their own “Native” tongue. They hold beliefs and behavior to their 'Native" country!

The definition “.A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants.”
describes the illegals behavior!

If Muslims came into a neighborhood and started to tell people to remove all Catholic Statues, Crucifixes, and to convert to Islam. Should we give in because we should welcome the stranger?

Sort of wacky to take a specific term used in the history of politics in the USA
and pretend that you can re-interpret it, don’t you think? Or do you think?