Catholic but not Roman Catholic

[Isa_Almisry]

Isa Almisry;3145519:

So SS Peter and Paul came to Rome just because the weather was nice?

The reasons why they came to Rome is a different subject.
Ultimately,their movements were directed by God.
They certainly didn’t go to Rome in order to found an official state church there.

So why accept the title Pontifix maximus?

and of course the Church was legal and sponsered elsewhere.

and of course no other patriarchs were martyred.

The point I was making is that the idea that the Church of Rome’s authority was based upon Rome’s imperial authority is wrong. Since the Church of Rome was illegal and persecuted,it is wrong to suggest that its privileges were based upon imperial authority. The Church of Rome had authority over the whole Church from the beginning,the earliest evidence being the Letter of Clement to the Corinthians. The popes had universal jurisdiction The Fathers did not grant the Church of Rome its privileges because it was the royal city,as the Council of Chalcedon claimed,but because of the authority of Peter and Paul.

I have posted ad nauseum on the Latin eisogeis on Clement. Thessalonica was in Rome’s jurisdiction until after some time after Constantinople’s founding, so a patriarch writing to a Church in his patrirarchate is nothing extrodinary.

The Fathers often link Rome to the imperial authority, e.g.

Finally, though never at Rome, on authority he knows that the census papers of the Holy Family are still there. **This appeal to Roman archives **is as old as Justin Martyr (Apol., I, 34, 35) and Tertullian (Adv. Marc., IV, 7, 19). Julius, in the Cyriline forgeries, is said to have calculated the date from Josephus, on the same unwarranted assumptions about Zachary as did Chrysostom.] Rome, therefore, has observed 25 December long enough to allow of Chrysostom speaking at least in 388 as above (P.G., XLVIII, 752, XLIX, 351).
newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

and the offiical decree making Catholicism the state Creed, which mentions the Pope of Rome (and Alexandria) by name, gave the Pope official status (and then there’s the title pontifax maximus).

If you try to pass counterfeit bills, they have to look like the real thing. So what do you make of the forgery the Donation of Constantine, and the idea of the Pope getting imperial honors when the main emperor left for New Rome?

The popes receiving imperial honors is one thing,and the idea of the papal authority being founded

upon imperial authority is entirely another thing.

The source of the pope’s ecclesiastical authority is the man Peter,who was made the Head by Christ. The source of the Church of Rome’s ecclesiastical authority is Peter and Paul together,because that was their final destination and they were martyred there,consecrating Rome with their blood.

No one would have tried to sell the Donation unless there was a market for it.

If St. Peter was so determinative, then there would have been no reference to the state apparatus at all, and more on why Antioch didn’t have the same honors.

 

[peary]

Hi

I understand from one of my Catholic friends on another forum that these concept “Immaculate Conception and Mary’s Assumption” were officially accepted much later by the Pope Benedict XIV who was pope from 1740 to 1758.

Could you please account for the lapse of about 1000 years?

I think there is no worthwhile mention about Mary ( or the above concepts) by Paul. Any good reason, please.

Thanks

For the origins of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, please take time to read the article from the Catholic Encyclopedia here:

newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

**For the origins of the dogma of the Assumption of Mary, please take time to read the article from the Catholic Encyclopedia here:

newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

 

[c659smith]

The Catholic Church re affirmed not first accepted these truths as the Bible and the Apostles Creed declared this in the first century.

Wa conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the vigin Mary.

The Angel Gabriel to Mary stated in favor with God --Again no one since Adam and Eve were in favor with God as they were all found guilty of Original sin and sin itself.

Fulll of grace — means without sin.

Virgin Birth stated in Old and New Testament throughout the Bible

Elizabeth to Mary stated Most Blessed are you amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of yur womb.

Mary’s assumption has been a tradition and Sacred Teachings throughout the church.

Tell me the Catholic Church has the bodies of the Apostles to include Peter and the Saints and the Catholic Church does not have the body of Mary? the Mother of God. Why?

If any Christian believes that Christ being a Man and God would allow his Mother to Rot in the Earth --would that be honoring his mother? What Prophet to go to heaven in a chariot.

 

[Pwrlftr]

Mary’s assumption has been a tradition and Sacred Teachings throughout the church.

Tell me the Catholic Church has the bodies of the Apostles to include Peter and the Saints and the Catholic Church does not have the body of Mary? the Mother of God. Why?

If any Christian believes that Christ being a Man and God would allow his Mother to Rot in the Earth --would that be honoring his mother? What Prophet to go to heaven in a chariot.

But isn’t it a fact that there is no evidence of anyone believing that Mary was assumed into heaven before the 5th century?

 

[Aramis]

But isn’t it a fact that there is no evidence of anyone believing that Mary was assumed into heaven before the 5th century?

wrong. There is evidence of it having been a hidden tradition. Not quite the same as “no one believing.”

 

[Pwrlftr]

wrong. There is evidence of it having been a hidden tradition. Not quite the same as “no one believing.”

Can you elaborate?

 

[Aramis]

Can you elaborate?

The bishops who brought it to the attention of the council sad that they had known all along. a local tradition not shared outside, but that it was spread from the council.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The bishops who brought it to the attention of the council sad that they had known all along. a local tradition not shared outside, but that it was spread from the council.

’
Actually at Chalcedon (451) the empress asked the Patriarch of jerusalem to translate the Virgins relics to Constantinople, and the patriarch revealed that there were no relics in Jerusalem, as she had been assumed into heaven, as the local tradition of Jerusalem held.

 

[Aramis]

’
Actually at Chalcedon (451) the empress asked the Patriarch of jerusalem to translate the Virgins relics to Constantinople, and the patriarch revealed that there were no relics in Jerusalem, as she had been assumed into heaven, as the local tradition of Jerusalem held.

As I said, evidence of a Hidden belief, not a non-extant one.

Yes, it was a local belief, spread from Jerusalem following Chalcedon via the council.

 

[peary]

As I said, evidence of a Hidden belief, not a non-extant one.

Yes, it was a local belief, spread from Jerusalem following Chalcedon via the council.

Actually, the belief existed prior to Chalcedon. I wouldn’t call it a ‘hidden’ belief since it was a public belief based on actual facts - her body no longer existed on earth.