Catholic Cardinal Pushes for Condoms

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Brendan said:
And the stats on condom prevention are only valid if done correctly, or for the Pill if it’s taken regularly.

That’s why there are comparative statistics. So we can compare Apples to Apples.
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True. Point is stats can be misleading and manipulated depending upon one’s agenda.
 
Brendan said:
Julianna,

Human Nature being what it is, there will be certain men who beat their wifes.

The Church could do one of two things. First it could promote the use of boxing gloves. Imaging Father saying to a parishoner “Ya’ know, you really shouldn’t beat your wife, but we recognize that sometimes, you just can’t control your urges. So when you can’t really control yourself, just strap on these Everlasts. It will reduce the chance you will injure your wife”

Or the Church could take the moral high road and condem all wifebeating. Of course, there will be some who do not listen.

Should the Church contine to take the High Road and condemn all wifebeating, or should it just face reality and issue boxing gloves.

Saying that condoms are a ‘cure’ for reality of AIDS is like saying boxing gloves are a ‘cure’ for the reality of spouse abuse, or that bulletproof vests are a ‘cure’ for the reality of gang violence.
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My point, exactly.

In the end, promoting condom use as “safe sex” is promoting sex – illicit sex. And since condoms aren’t safe, there is no excuse for promoting illicit sex among people with or at risk of AIDS.
 
nomolos said:
People do we not realize that HIV/STD’S are God punishment for sexual immorality.
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Right, and gigivitis is God’s punishment for not flossing? How about sun burn is God’s punishment for not using sunscreen!

Do you realize that there are STD’s for every sexual reproducing plant and animal on earth? Are they immoral too?

Sheesh:rolleyes:

Nohome
 
Two more points to add re condoms: failure rates for pregnancy do not necessarily apply to HIV tranmission. WHY? Dose response.
The advent of highly active anti-retroviral therapy would make transmissions rates extremely low, so condoms would just be an extra safeguard.
 
promoting condom use as “safe sex” is promoting sex – illicit sex
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the generally used term is “safer sex”
yes, condoms can be used for illicit sex, but that is not a reason to label all sex with condoms illicit
drug users abuse heroin, but it’s an excellent painkiller for palliative care which is sadly not available for people in the USA
so NO, promoting condom use for preventing HIV is not about promoting illicit sex
 
Brendan said:
And the stats on condom prevention are only valid if done correctly, or for the Pill if it’s taken regularly.

That’s why there are comparative statistics. So we can compare Apples to Apples.
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In studying the comparative potential of one method over another, you are right. But in the end, any AIDS prevention program must work in the real world. So it is essential we know how condoms work when people are drunk, using drugs, and doing all the things they do in the real world.

And there the statistics are less promising.
 
jack_hawkins said:
the generally used term is “safer sex”
yes, condoms can be used for illicit sex, but that is not a reason to label all sex with condoms illicit
drug users abuse heroin, but it’s an excellent painkiller for palliative care which is sadly not available for people in the USA
so NO, promoting condom use for preventing HIV is not about promoting illicit sex
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Except that it is about illicit sex. AIDS is primarily contracted and spread through illicit sex. And telling people “a condom will protect you” is tantamount to negligent homicide.
 
vern_humphrey said:
And telling people “a condom will protect you” is tantamount to negligent homicide.
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Let’s be honest here. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY says “a condom will protect you”. I dare you to find one health agency that says so. The common message is that they reduce the risk of infection.

Nohome
 
Nohome said:
Let’s be honest here. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY says “a condom will protect you”. I dare you to find one health agency that says so. The common message is that they reduce the risk of infection.

Nohome
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A subtly nuanced message that many people misinterpret to their great disadvantage – even to the cost of their lives. And you know many want to misinterpret it. They want to believe there is such a thing as “safe sex.”
 
Nohome said:
Here is what the FDA says:

fda.gov/oashi/aids/condom.html

Hardly what I would call subtle.

Nohome
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And that fits right in with the public servoice ads that showed a man sitting on a chair and saying, “What if I told you I could save my life just by putting on my socks.”😉

In point of fact there was stong resistance to publishing any data showning condoms not 100% effective – for fear people would stop using them.

Now Reinhold Messener said you could climb Mount Everest in tennis shoes – if you got good weather. But it would not be wise to try it!

And condoms and all the other precautions would have an impact if everyone used them conscientiously exactly as they are meant to be use. But people who engage in illicit sex, by definition are not acting safely – and encouraging them to preserve the illusion that there is such a thing as “safe sex” is not helping them.
 
Ok, this is akin to wondering aloud… not trying to argue anything.

Usually with sacraments people consider them holy and of course you shouldn’t mess with any essential characteristics of them. For instance, who would dare baptise without water and only words? Who would baptise without words and just pour water?

Why is it that we have such an easy time disecting the unitive and procrative aspects of marriage? Maybe people don’t realize it is a sacrament? Maybe people underestimate it :confused:
 
Nohome said:
Reference please, I suspect this is, at best, conjecture.

Nohome
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fromthehomefront.org/04_April30.htm
Condoms: A Failure to Protect
April 30, 2004
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Apparently, there are not enough condoms in America’s schools. And there is a group intent on fixing the problem.
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They will soon introduce the “Putting Prevention First Act” in Congress. Prevention first? Promoting condoms? Where have these people been during the past ten years?
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They need to check with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In June 2000, the CDC worked with experts from around the country to examine all major research on condom effectiveness. The results of this study exploded the claims that condoms are a “safe sex” approach.
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In fact, the CDC study detailed a long history of condoms and their failure to protect. It finally nailed down the facts that document why we are in the midst of a raging epidemic of STDs. For one thing, virus and bacteria live on the body outside areas covered by the condom. Even the body contact required to put on a condom can spread STD infections.
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Condoms, even if used consistently and correctly, fail to secure the health of our children. Don’t take my word for it.
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Ask the CDC. Their fact sheet spells it out, “No protective method is 100 percent effective, and condom use cannot guarantee absolute protection against any STD.”
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Today, serious and lifelong STD infections run rampant. One such STD, human papilloma virus (HPV) is the primary cause for over 99% of all cervical cancer. What does that mean to you and your children?
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More women die each year from cervical cancer than from AIDS. Cervical cancer occurs in approximately 13,000 women every year in the United States, and kills almost 5,000 American women yearly. Many of these are young women…in the prime of their life…mothers who leave behind husbands and children.
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Five to six million Americans become infected with genital HPV every year. Twenty million Americans are currently infected with the virus, and another 80 million have been infected at some time in the past. This means that 75 percent of sexually active Americans are or have previously been infected.
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HPV is only the first STD on a very long list of failures of the condom to protect the health of sexually active people. Certainly, Americans need prevention. And we need it now. But what exactly is “prevention”?
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Ask the CDC. They spell it out on their fact sheet. “The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sexual intercourse, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.”
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We have had over thirty years of condom education, condom distribution and condom reassurance. One organization promoting condoms to our children received over $240 million dollars from the government in 2001-2002 and expended $40.7 million for sex education.
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Today, do we need to throw good money after bad? Do we need really need more government money to teach our children the intricacies of using a condom that will fail to protect them?
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Sure. Let’s put prevention first. But anyone who is serious about sex and prevention will not be fooled into wishful thinking about condoms. They will stand for truth. Research proves that condoms do not offer the kind of protection that will keep our children safe.
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If we really believe prevention comes first, we will take the time to get our facts straight. And we will deliver the facts in an uncompromising message that our children hear.
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Prevention first, second, third and fourth means exactly one thing. Healthy sex belongs inside a marriage commitment between two people who will love each other for a lifetime.
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condoms and all the other precautions would have an impact if everyone used them conscientiously exactly as they are meant to be use
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Excellent!👍 - progress!
 
jack_hawkins said:
Excellent!👍 - progress!
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I fail to see what was so profound about the statement you quoted. It is like saying, in a perfect world, we wouldn’t have AIDS. People fail, condoms fail, that doesn’t mean we should give up on them.

People take risks, like driving motorcycles. Helmets have been proven to reduce injury when used correctly and consistantly, but not 100%. Following your “progress” we would give up on helmets because they don’t always work.

Nohome

PS still waiting for evidence Vern!
 
Nohome I am on the side of condoms for HIV prevention, believe me - I was applauding what I saw as a concession from vern that condoms work! That’s a start at least!
 
jack_hawkins said:
Nohome I am on the side of condoms for HIV prevention, believe me - I was applauding what I saw as a concession from vern that condoms work! That’s a start at least!
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Saying it has as ‘impact’ is a conscession?

Well then chalk me up to giving you a concession as well. Condom use will certainly have an impact…a negative one.

Do I get applause now 😉
 
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