Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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Only the Magisterium and its represented clergy is qualified to evangelize and build the faith of the Church. The laity is simple not skilled enough to do such. If a layperson is interested in being part of this, however, that person should apply to join the clergy as a priest, brother, nun, or monk.
It would seem this forum disagrees with you.
Witness the following links pulled from the CA website calling the laity to evangelize:
catholic.com/library/12_ways.asp

catholic.com/seminars/topics.asp#Evangelization
%between%
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9707fea1.asp
 
Dear theotokos: you really are very orthodox, I do not intend to keep trying to explain or make you understand. any way May the good Lord :blessyou:
 
it is stated that the Movement “puts the responsibility of evangelization and the building up of the faith and fervor of the Church on the everyday layperson.” Now is this not a bold expression of Protestantism? Only the Magisterium and its represented clergy is qualified to evangelize and build the faith of the Church. The laity is simple not skilled enough to do such. If a layperson is interested in being part of this, however, that person should apply to join the clergy as a priest, brother, nun, or monk.

Sorry I don’t agree here we are all as christians called to witness to Christ. It’s in the catechism and in the bible. And after mass we are told to go forth in peace and proclaim the mystery of the Lord. Why would we be told to do this if we weren’t qualified. Even my brother who has special needs teaches me of the Lords love and ways, though he is not perfect he is a unique individual with certain strengths that no doubt come from the Lord and where he may be weak the Lord gives us the patience to deal with him and help him so I learn from him that no one is perfect we are all valuable to each other in our own ways. Any christian who is truly following the Lord Jesus has the ability to evangelize. In some it may not be intentional but God is always teaching us if we are open to Him.
1985 Extraordinary Synod of Bishops
  1. Evangelization
The mystery of divine life that the Church brings to all peoples to participate in must be proclaimed. The Church is missionary by her very nature (cf. AG 2) Thus the bishops are not only teachers of the faithful but heralds of the faith which leads new disciples to Christ (cf. LG 25) Evangelization is the first duty not only of the bishops but also of priests and deacons, indeed, of all Christians. Everywhere on earth today the transmission to the young of the faith and the moral values deriving from the Gospel is in danger. Often, knowledge of the faith and the acceptance of the moral order are reduced to the minimum. Therefore, a new effort in evangelization and in integral and systematic catechesis is required.

Evangelization does not regard only the missions in the common sense of the word, that is, “ad Gentes”. The evangelization of non-believers in fact presupposes the self- evangelization of the baptized and also in a certain sense, of deacons, priests and bishops. Evangelization takes place through witnesses. The witness gives his testimony not only with words, but also with his life. We must not forget that in Greek the word for testimony is “martyrium”. In this respect, the more ancient Churches can learn much from the new Churches, from their dynamism, from their life and testimony even unto the shedding of their blood for the faith.

Moreover, all Christians have received from Christ the mission to make all people disciples of Christ (MT 28:18).

V. Conclusion
  1. The Church’s commitment to evangelization can never be lacking, since according to his own promise, the presence of the Lord Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit will never be absent from her: “I am with you always, even until the end of the world” (Mt 28:20). The relativism and irenicism prevalent today in the area of religion are not valid reasons for failing to respond to the difficult, but awe-inspiring commitment which belongs to the nature of the Church herself and is indeed the Church’s “primary task”.[54] “Caritas Christi urget nos – the love of Christ impels us” (2 Cor 5:14): the lives of innumerable Catholics bear witness to this truth. Throughout the entire history of the Church, people motivated by the love of Jesus have undertaken initiatives and works of every kind in order to proclaim the Gospel to the entire world and in all sectors of society, as a perennial reminder and invitation to every Christian generation to fulfill with generosity the mandate of Christ. Therefore, as Pope Benedict XVI recalls, “the proclamation of and witness to the Gospel are the first service that Christians can render to every person and to the entire human race, called as they are to communicate to all God’s love, which was fully manifested in Jesus Christ, the one Redeemer of the world”.[55] The love which comes from God unites us to him and “makes us a ‘we’ which transcends our divisions and makes us one, until in the end God is ‘all in all’ (1 Cor 15:28)”.[56]
The Sovereign Pontiff Benedict XVI, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect on 6 October 2007, approved the present Doctrinal Note, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered its publication.
 
Sorry I don’t agree here we are all as christians called to witness to Christ. It’s in the catechism and in the bible. And after mass we are told to go forth in peace and proclaim the mystery of the Lord. Why would we be told to do this if we weren’t qualified.
It is far beyond the scope of this thread to detail my comments on this subject. But generally speaking, the evangelization that I am referring to is not, nor ever should be, the responsibility of the laity. If you disagree, locate the reason why laypersons cannot give sermons.
 
Dear theotokos: you really are very orthodox, I do not intend to keep trying to explain or make you understand. any way May the good Lord :blessyou:
Thank you! Sincerely, that is a big compliment. 🙂
 
It would seem this forum disagrees with you.
Witness the following links pulled from the CA website calling the laity to evangelize:
catholic.com/library/12_ways.asp

catholic.com/seminars/topics.asp#Evangelization
%between%
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9707fea1.asp
I’m not even going to express, for lack of a charitable way to do it, how many thing are wrong with what is written there. Catholic tracts? Please! The conquer has truly become the conquered.
I gotta agree with you there, Theotokos. The first thing that went through my mind was an image of the JW’s leaving their materials at the laundromat, the bus stop, etc.

Yikes! :bigyikes:
 
I gotta agree with you there, Theotokos. The first thing that went through my mind was an image of the JW’s leaving their materials at the laundromat, the bus stop, etc.

Yikes! :bigyikes:
Thank you, Mantilla. I’m glad it is not just me. It’s really a shame how much bad “Catholic” information is out there.
 
It is far beyond the cope of this thread to detail my comments on this subject. But generally speaking, the evangelization that I am referring to is not, nor ever should be, the responsibility of the laity. If you disagree, locate the reason why laypersons cannot give sermons.
You mean evangelizing in mass or out of Mass?
I am not saying preach a sermon in the mass, I am saying evangelize through your life out in the world am I supposed to take a priest every where I go in case some on asks me about my faith? It is clearly stated we are invited to evangelize as Christians to the world not during a mass.

“Thus the bishops are not only teachers of the faithful but heralds of the faith which leads new disciples to Christ (cf. LG 25) Evangelization is the first duty not only of the bishops but also of priests and deacons, indeed, of all Christians.”

God Bless.
 
You mean evangelizing in mass or out of Mass?
I am not saying preach a sermon in the mass, I am saying evangelize through your life out in the world am I supposed to take a priest every where I go in case some on asks me about my faith? It is clearly stated we are invited to evangelize as Christians to the world not during a mass.

“Thus the bishops are not only teachers of the faithful but heralds of the faith which leads new disciples to Christ (cf. LG 25) Evangelization is the first duty not only of the bishops but also of priests and deacons, indeed, of all Christians.”

God Bless.
I am speaking in context to what CorinneNj wrote:
It puts the responsibility of evangelizing and the building up of the faith and fervor of the church on the everyday layperson
The implication here is problematic. Yes, we are supposed to be examples of Christ and share our faith. This does not mean we should be operating Bible studies without the benefit of a priest or leaving tracts on car windshields or going door to door with the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. There are specific types of evangelization the laity is responsible for, the implications of Corinne’s statement is not it.
 
it is stated that the Movement “puts the responsibility of evangelization and the building up of the faith and fervor of the Church on the everyday layperson.” Now is this not a bold expression of Protestantism? Only the Magisterium and its represented clergy is qualified to evangelize and build the faith of the Church. The laity is simple not skilled enough to do such. If a layperson is interested in being part of this, however, that person should apply to join the clergy as a priest, brother, nun, or monk.

Sorry I don’t agree here we are all as christians called to witness to Christ. It’s in the catechism and in the bible. And after mass we are told to go forth in peace and proclaim the mystery of the Lord. Why would we be told to do this if we weren’t qualified. Even my brother who has special needs teaches me of the Lords love and ways, though he is not perfect he is a unique individual with certain strengths that no doubt come from the Lord and where he may be weak the Lord gives us the patience to deal with him and help him so I learn from him that no one is perfect we are all valuable to each other in our own ways. Any christian who is truly following the Lord Jesus has the ability to evangelize. In some it may not be intentional but God is always teaching us if we are open to Him.
1985 Extraordinary Synod of Bishops
  1. Evangelization
The mystery of divine life that the Church brings to all peoples to participate in must be proclaimed. The Church is missionary by her very nature (cf. AG 2) Thus the bishops are not only teachers of the faithful but heralds of the faith which leads new disciples to Christ (cf. LG 25) Evangelization is the first duty not only of the bishops but also of priests and deacons, indeed, of all Christians. Everywhere on earth today the transmission to the young of the faith and the moral values deriving from the Gospel is in danger. Often, knowledge of the faith and the acceptance of the moral order are reduced to the minimum. Therefore, a new effort in evangelization and in integral and systematic catechesis is required.

Evangelization does not regard only the missions in the common sense of the word, that is, “ad Gentes”. The evangelization of non-believers in fact presupposes the self- evangelization of the baptized and also in a certain sense, of deacons, priests and bishops. Evangelization takes place through witnesses. The witness gives his testimony not only with words, but also with his life. We must not forget that in Greek the word for testimony is “martyrium”. In this respect, the more ancient Churches can learn much from the new Churches, from their dynamism, from their life and testimony even unto the shedding of their blood for the faith.

Moreover, all Christians have received from Christ the mission to make all people disciples of Christ (MT 28:18).

V. Conclusion
  1. The Church’s commitment to evangelization can never be lacking, since according to his own promise, the presence of the Lord Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit will never be absent from her: “I am with you always, even until the end of the world” (Mt 28:20). The relativism and irenicism prevalent today in the area of religion are not valid reasons for failing to respond to the difficult, but awe-inspiring commitment which belongs to the nature of the Church herself and is indeed the Church’s “primary task”.[54] “Caritas Christi urget nos – the love of Christ impels us” (2 Cor 5:14): the lives of innumerable Catholics bear witness to this truth. Throughout the entire history of the Church, people motivated by the love of Jesus have undertaken initiatives and works of every kind in order to proclaim the Gospel to the entire world and in all sectors of society, as a perennial reminder and invitation to every Christian generation to fulfill with generosity the mandate of Christ. Therefore, as Pope Benedict XVI recalls, “the proclamation of and witness to the Gospel are the first service that Christians can render to every person and to the entire human race, called as they are to communicate to all God’s love, which was fully manifested in Jesus Christ, the one Redeemer of the world”.[55] The love which comes from God unites us to him and “makes us a ‘we’ which transcends our divisions and makes us one, until in the end God is ‘all in all’ (1 Cor 15:28)”.[56]
The Sovereign Pontiff Benedict XVI, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect on 6 October 2007, approved the present Doctrinal Note, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered its publication.
 
it is stated that the Movement “puts the responsibility of evangelization and the building up of the faith and fervor of the Church on the everyday layperson.” Now is this not a bold expression of Protestantism? Only the Magisterium and its represented clergy is qualified to evangelize and build the faith of the Church. The laity is simple not skilled enough to do such. If a layperson is interested in being part of this, however, that person should apply to join the clergy as a priest, brother, nun, or monk.

Sorry I don’t agree here we are all as christians called to witness to Christ. It’s in the catechism and in the bible. And after mass we are told to go forth in peace and proclaim the mystery of the Lord. Why would we be told to do this if we weren’t qualified. Even my brother who has special needs teaches me of the Lords love and ways, though he is not perfect he is a unique individual with certain strengths that no doubt come from the Lord and where he may be weak the Lord gives us the patience to deal with him and help him so I learn from him that no one is perfect we are all valuable to each other in our own ways. Any christian who is truly following the Lord Jesus has the ability to evangelize. In some it may not be intentional but God is always teaching us if we are open to Him.
1985 Extraordinary Synod of Bishops
  1. Evangelization
The mystery of divine life that the Church brings to all peoples to participate in must be proclaimed. The Church is missionary by her very nature (cf. AG 2) Thus the bishops are not only teachers of the faithful but heralds of the faith which leads new disciples to Christ (cf. LG 25) Evangelization is the first duty not only of the bishops but also of priests and deacons, indeed, of all Christians. Everywhere on earth today the transmission to the young of the faith and the moral values deriving from the Gospel is in danger. Often, knowledge of the faith and the acceptance of the moral order are reduced to the minimum. Therefore, a new effort in evangelization and in integral and systematic catechesis is required.

Evangelization does not regard only the missions in the common sense of the word, that is, “ad Gentes”. The evangelization of non-believers in fact presupposes the self- evangelization of the baptized and also in a certain sense, of deacons, priests and bishops. Evangelization takes place through witnesses. The witness gives his testimony not only with words, but also with his life. We must not forget that in Greek the word for testimony is “martyrium”. In this respect, the more ancient Churches can learn much from the new Churches, from their dynamism, from their life and testimony even unto the shedding of their blood for the faith.

Moreover, all Christians have received from Christ the mission to make all people disciples of Christ (MT 28:18).

V. Conclusion
  1. The Church’s commitment to evangelization can never be lacking, since according to his own promise, the presence of the Lord Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit will never be absent from her: “I am with you always, even until the end of the world” (Mt 28:20). The relativism and irenicism prevalent today in the area of religion are not valid reasons for failing to respond to the difficult, but awe-inspiring commitment which belongs to the nature of the Church herself and is indeed the Church’s “primary task”.[54] “Caritas Christi urget nos – the love of Christ impels us” (2 Cor 5:14): the lives of innumerable Catholics bear witness to this truth. Throughout the entire history of the Church, people motivated by the love of Jesus have undertaken initiatives and works of every kind in order to proclaim the Gospel to the entire world and in all sectors of society, as a perennial reminder and invitation to every Christian generation to fulfill with generosity the mandate of Christ. Therefore, as Pope Benedict XVI recalls, “the proclamation of and witness to the Gospel are the first service that Christians can render to every person and to the entire human race, called as they are to communicate to all God’s love, which was fully manifested in Jesus Christ, the one Redeemer of the world”.[55] The love which comes from God unites us to him and “makes us a ‘we’ which transcends our divisions and makes us one, until in the end God is ‘all in all’ (1 Cor 15:28)”.[56]
The Sovereign Pontiff Benedict XVI, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect on 6 October 2007, approved the present Doctrinal Note, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered its publication.
I’ve responded to this post above.
 
The Holy SeeCatechism of the Catholic Church

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH”

Paragraph 4. Christ’s Faithful - Hierarchy, Laity, Consecrated Life

871 "The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through Baptism, have been constituted as the people of God; for this reason, since they have become sharers in Christ’s priestly, prophetic, and royal office in their own manner, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each one."385

872 "In virtue of their rebirth in Christ there exists among all the Christian faithful a true equality with regard to dignity and the activity whereby all cooperate in the building up of the Body of Christ in accord with each one’s own condition and function."386

873 The very differences which the Lord has willed to put between the members of his body serve its unity and mission. For "in the Church there is diversity of ministry but unity of mission. To the apostles and their successors Christ has entrusted the office of teaching, sanctifying and governing in his name and by his power. But the laity are made to share in the priestly, prophetical, and kingly office of Christ; they have therefore, in the Church and in the world, their own assignment in the mission of the whole People of God."387 Finally, "from both groups [hierarchy and laity] there exist Christian faithful who are consecrated to God in their own special manner and serve the salvific mission of the Church through the profession of the evangelical counsels."388

I. THE HIERARCHICAL CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH

Why the ecclesial ministry?

874 Christ is himself the source of ministry in the Church. He instituted the Church. He gave her authority and mission, orientation and goal:
Code:
In order to shepherd the People of God and to increase its numbers without cease, Christ the Lord set up in his Church a variety of offices which aim at the good of the whole body. The holders of office, who are invested with a sacred power, are, in fact, dedicated to promoting the interests of their brethren, so that all who belong to the People of God . . . may attain to salvation.389
875 "How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent?"390 No one - no individual and no community - can proclaim the Gospel to himself: "Faith comes from what is heard."391 No one can give himself the mandate and the mission to proclaim the Gospel. The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority, but by virtue of Christ’s authority; not as a member of the community, but speaking to it in the name of Christ. No one can bestow grace on himself; it must be given and offered. This fact presupposes ministers of grace, authorized and empowered by Christ. From him, bishops and priests receive the mission and faculty (“the sacred power”) to act in persona Christi Capitis; deacons receive the strength to serve the people of God in the diaconia of the liturgy, word and charity, in communion with the bishop and his presbyterate. The ministry in which Christ’s emissaries do and give by God’s grace what they cannot do and give by their own powers, is called a “sacrament” by the Church’s tradition. Indeed, the ministry of the Church is conferred by a special sacrament.

876 Intrinsically linked to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry is its character as service. Entirely dependent on Christ who gives mission and authority, ministers are truly "slaves of Christ,"392 in the image of him who freely took “the form of a slave” for us.393 Because the word and grace of which they are ministers are not their own, but are given to them by Christ for the sake of others, they must freely become the slaves of all.394

877 Likewise, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a collegial character. In fact, from the beginning of his ministry, the Lord Jesus instituted the Twelve as "the seeds of the new Israel and the beginning of the sacred hierarchy."395 Chosen together, they were also sent out together, and their fraternal unity would be at the service of the fraternal communion of all the faithful: they would reflect and witness to the communion of the divine persons.396 For this reason every bishop exercises his ministry from within the episcopal college, in communion with the bishop of Rome, the successor of St. Peter and head of the college. So also priests exercise their ministry from within the presbyterium of the diocese, under the direction of their bishop.

878 Finally, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a personal character. Although Christ’s ministers act in communion with one another, they also always act in a personal way. Each one is called personally: "You, follow me"397 in order to be a personal witness within the common mission, to bear personal responsibility before him who gives the mission, acting “in his person” and for other persons: “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit …”; “I absolve you…”

879 Sacramental ministry in the Church, then, is a service exercised in the name of Christ. It has a personal character and a collegial form. This is evidenced by the bonds between the episcopal college and its head, the successor of St. Peter, and in the relationship between the bishop’s pastoral responsibility for his particular church and the common solicitude of the episcopal college for the universal Church.
 
The Holy SeeCatechism of the Catholic Church

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH”

.
I’ve read the Catechism backwards and forwards. What are you getting at? That it’s okay for the laity to take on the evangelical responsibility of the clergy? Sorry, all the Charismatics in the world won’t be able to convince me to change my mind on something that I know to be in error.
 
I’ve read the Catechism backwards and forwards. What are you getting at? That it’s okay for the laity to take on the evangelical responsibility of the clergy? Sorry, all the Charismatics in the world won’t be able to convince me to change my mind on something that I know to be in error.
No I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I kind of thought that because I couldn’t believe you would deny that we as Christians should share our faith. I responded I think before I fully understood what you meant. You mean in the church at Mass am I correct?
I just mean in general everyday as we live we evangelize. I don’t think I nor any lay person should be saying a mass. Sorry for all the catechism but I didn’t know how else to answer seeing as that is not my strength. I just heard we as lay people should not be evangelizing and thought what is he saying? my bad:confused: I misunderstood I think:shrug:
I’ve decided to take a break this time I’m really going to try and stay off this post. I feel I have offered my opinion and have not much more to say. I appreciate the good conversation but I feel wiped out:doh2:. God Bless:thumbsup:
 
No I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I kind of thought that because I couldn’t believe you would deny that we as Christians should share our faith. I responded I think before I fully understood what you meant. You mean in the church at Mass am I correct?
I just mean in general everyday as we live we evangelize. I don’t think I nor any lay person should be saying a mass. Sorry for all the catechism but I didn’t know how else to answer seeing as that is not my strength. I just heard we as lay people should not be evangelizing and thought what is he saying? my bad:confused: I misunderstood I think:shrug:
I’ve decided to take a break this time I’m really going to try and stay off this post. I feel I have offered my opinion and have not much more to say. I appreciate the good conversation but I feel wiped out:doh2:. God Bless:thumbsup:
I’ve responded to both your PM and your email. 🙂 I think I cleared up the misunderstanding.
 
Only the Magisterium and its represented clergy is qualified to evangelize and build the faith of the Church. The laity is simple not skilled enough to do such. If a layperson is interested in being part of this, however, that person should apply to join the clergy as a priest, brother, nun, or monk.
It would seem this forum disagrees with you.
Witness the following links pulled from the CA website calling the laity to evangelize:
catholic.com/library/12_ways.asp

catholic.com/seminars/topics.asp#Evangelization

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9707fea1.asp
I’m not even going to express, for lack of a charitable way to do it, how many thing are wrong with what is written there. Catholic tracts? Please! The conquer has truly become the conquered.
Sorry.
You are not off that easy here either.
You have made a bold statement concerning the responsibilities of the people in God’s church. Statements that apparently are mistaken.

I request church documentation backing your assertion…or a concession that this assertion was mistaken.
 
It is far beyond the scope of this thread to detail my comments on this subject. But generally speaking, the evangelization that I am referring to is not, nor ever should be, the responsibility of the laity. If you disagree, locate the reason why laypersons cannot give sermons.
Is the entirety of evengelization a sermon?
 
I gotta agree with you there, Theotokos. The first thing that went through my mind was an image of the JW’s leaving their materials at the laundromat, the bus stop, etc.

Yikes! :bigyikes:
Do you also agree that evangelization is only for the Magistarium?
 
I’ve read the Catechism backwards and forwards. What are you getting at? That it’s okay for the laity to take on the evangelical responsibility of the clergy?
No one said that the responsibility should be taken from the clergy.

As evidenced in previous posts, you indeed do admit evangelization responsibility of the laity.
There are specific types of evangelization the laity is responsible for
And yet you are now making the assumption that the evangelization spoken of in other posts supporting the Charismatic movement are taking responsibility from the clergy.

When there is lack of evidence one way or another, you made an assumption that places opposition in the worst possible light.

How can I not find this intellectually dishonest?
 
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