Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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Ever since I converted to the Church I’ve occasionally tried to understand this movement, but I’ve never done any hard research on it, I get a little motivated to and then my ADD kicks in and I lose interest very quickly. Everything I’ve ever looked at shows that there are some mention of it and credit given to it, but everything I’ve read is so obscure concerning how much creedence it has from the Church. I’ve spent years as a Southern Baptist debating tongues with Pentecostals, and I have an understanding now what the Church Fathers have said on it, but I am afraid to speak with total certainty because I know little about how the Church really stands. I know that trustworthy Catholic apologists feel the same as I do, but I’m not sure if they have a full grasp on it either. And when I see the quotes that the Catholic Charismatic Renewal sites have from Popes and Cardinals, their quotes don’t convince me either because the mention of “renewal” does not mean that the Pope is talking about the actual movement, or a movement in general.

I’d sure like some developed thoughts on this! Thanks!
 
I feel exactly the way you do. 🙂 I’m a lifelong Catholic. I’ve encountered it very infrequently, and not always in the most positive light. I wouldn’t describe it as mainstream Catholicism, that’s for sure. 😉
 
There’s a good summary on the EWTN website:

ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm

The key bit, I think, is that the “movement” remain within and obedient to the Church. The danger is that people might come to believe that they don’t need the Church because God speaks to them directly - but I’ve never heard that from Catholic Charismatics (although I have heard it more than once from Protestant Charismatics, not surprisingly). But there is no intrinsic reason to be suspicious of the Charismatic renewal, and good reasons to welcome it, beginning with the promises of Scripture (Joel 2:28-29, etc)
 
I think that most dioceses, at least in the U. S., have a liaison person who coordinates with the approved Charismatic groups in the diocese and oversees their activities.

In Southern California most are coordinated by the SCRC [Southern California Renewal Communities.]
 
I think that most dioceses, at least in the U. S., have a liaison person who coordinates with the approved Charismatic groups in the diocese and oversees their activities.

In Southern California most are coordinated by the SCRC [Southern California Renewal Communities.]
On another list I am on a woman was explaining her experience as a charismatic. Her experience includes a priest that takes that initial charismatic experience(s) and MATURES THEM. I think this is the key. Far too many people take their charismatic experience and think it’s the be all and end of of spirituality; when, in fact, it’s only a beginning. In some people, when the Holy Spirit works, it’s power is so overwhelming, that it manifests itself in ways that are beyond the “normal” in human activity. Good spiritual direction is really necessary so to not allow these people to think they are in some special spiritual category that makes they “above” others who do not have the same experience. The woman I mentioned above was given this direction and really seemed to have “her act together”. She was fully Catholic without a lot of the baggage of other charismatics I’ve met other than having some “charismatic experiences”. She was fortunate to get good spiritual direction SO, to me, that seems to be the key for helping these people “understand” their experiences.

MonFrere
 
The tongues thing gives me the heebie jeebies. Also a famous priest tried to slay me in the Spirit once and I did not have a good feeling about it. However, the folks I knew in connection with Steubenville as well as the Greater New Orleans area all seemed pretty orthodox. It is a mixed bag.
 
The tongues thing gives me the heebie jeebies. Also a famous priest tried to slay me in the Spirit once and I did not have a good feeling about it. However, the folks I knew in connection with Steubenville as well as the Greater New Orleans area all seemed pretty orthodox. It is a mixed bag.
Is that really the best criteria by which to judge the movement? Heebie jeebies? 🙂

When I first got involved in the Charismatic Movement I was studying anthropology in college. I had a class on the anthropology of religion. We each had to pick a religious group, do a paper on it and teach a class on it to the others. I picked the Catholic Charismatics. In doing my research I dug up over one hundred accounts in which a person’s speaking in tongues was identified by a person who had a natural knowledge of the language. Often these were rather obscure like liturgical dialects of Japanese. The most interesting case was a man who spoke in a medieval German dialect (identified by a German language and literature scholar). What made this case interesting was that the man was totally unable to speak otherwise.

At one point I did admit that I became doubtful of the gift. I was sitting behind a man at a charismatic prayer meeting and he was making these clicking noises. The next day I had a linguistics class and the topic was the Xhausa family of languages from Africa. Most of the consonant sounds in this language family sound like clicks.

Even more convincing to my mind is that fact that the movement comes highly endorse by Popes Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
 
Is that really the best criteria by which to judge the movement? Heebie jeebies? 🙂

When I first got involved in the Charismatic Movement I was studying anthropology in college. I had a class on the anthropology of religion. We each had to pick a religious group, do a paper on it and teach a class on it to the others. I picked the Catholic Charismatics. In doing my research I dug up over one hundred accounts in which a person’s speaking in tongues was identified by a person who had a natural knowledge of the language. Often these were rather obscure like liturgical dialects of Japanese. The most interesting case was a man who spoke in a medieval German dialect (identified by a German language and literature scholar). What made this case interesting was that the man was totally unable to speak otherwise.

At one point I did admit that I became doubtful of the gift. I was sitting behind a man at a charismatic prayer meeting and he was making these clicking noises. The next day I had a linguistics class and the topic was the Xhausa family of languages from Africa. Most of the consonant sounds in this language family sound like clicks.

Even more convincing to my mind is that fact that the movement comes highly endorse by Popes Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI.
Never seen anything by Pope Benedict on the charismatics. Would love to see the source.
The ones I saw were definitely not speaking other languages. In fact, this the first time I’ve ever seen a claim that any of them were.

Like I said most of them seemed like good Catholics just one or two I met that definitely weren’t right. And of course the whole Covenant Community thing back in the 80s/90s… 😦
 
Never seen anything by Pope Benedict on the charismatics. Would love to see the source.
nsc-chariscenter.org/PopeBenedictaddresses.htm
The ones I saw were definitely not speaking other languages. In fact, this the first time I’ve ever seen a claim that any of them were.
IIRC the gift of tongues when exercised in the assembly is supposed to be accompanied by the gift of interpretation - the charisms are for the building up of the Body. When one is praying devotionally this is not required, but neither should one be drawing attention to oneself. (1 Cor. 14)
 
IIRC the gift of tongues when exercised in the assembly is supposed to be accompanied by the gift of interpretation - the charisms are for the building up of the Body. When one is praying devotionally this is not required, but neither should one be drawing attention to oneself. (1 Cor. 14)
This goes to the point I made last evening that when some people experience these “charismatic experiences” they absolutely NEED catechesis as to give direction to these people to properly understand what’s going on in their lives. We understand that we do not spiritually mature “instantly” but rather is a lifelong process of growth. People with charismatic experiences is like a young teenager who gets his first rush of hormones and experiences “adult feelings” but has no means and no experience as to understand what is going on in his inner self and body. He need a more mature person there to help him sensitively understand his experiences. IMO - people ALWAYS need direction to understand how the Holy Spirit is working in their lives.

How many times have we heard of Catholics who were baptized and are now perhaps a young adult and the Holy Spirit begins to draw that person to a greater devotion to God. I’ve heard of just too many Catholics who will then begin to dig into the Bible only to have their Protestant friends to the catechesis and “guide them” in their Bible study. They get guided right out of the Church. Yes, the Holy Spirit is working - but there is a great need for TRUE teaching and direction. These people do NOT, for some reason, really try to find Catholic answers to their problem – maybe it’s like the young teen who thinks he’s ALL ALONE in experiencing what every young adult has experienced but he’s afraid to ask questions as to look “weird or stupid”.

What I’m saying is that ALL CHRISTIANS need help when the Holy Spirit it working in their lives. This is definitely not a time when a Christian should try to figure things out for themselves. When we do that - we run into problems; sometimes big problems.

Therefore, IMO - Charismatics don’t need judged – they need encouraged and helped. I’m not saying that people in this thread are doing that because it’s been the opposite. But in other threads there has definitely been a negative connotation given to the Charismatic movement. But, in like manner I think all Christians need to have their antennae up for helping those to whom the Holy Spirit may be moving to give them the support and encouragement to get the professional help they need. I think it is just one more way we can help keep our members Catholic.

MonFrere
 
This goes to the point I made last evening that when some people experience these “charismatic experiences” they absolutely NEED catechesis as to give direction to these people to properly understand what’s going on in their lives. We understand that we do not spiritually mature “instantly” but rather is a lifelong process of growth. People with charismatic experiences is like a young teenager who gets his first rush of hormones and experiences “adult feelings” but has no means and no experience as to understand what is going on in his inner self and body. He need a more mature person there to help him sensitively understand his experiences. IMO - people ALWAYS need direction to understand how the Holy Spirit is working in their lives.

How many times have we heard of Catholics who were baptized and are now perhaps a young adult and the Holy Spirit begins to draw that person to a greater devotion to God. I’ve heard of just too many Catholics who will then begin to dig into the Bible only to have their Protestant friends to the catechesis and “guide them” in their Bible study. They get guided right out of the Church. Yes, the Holy Spirit is working - but there is a great need for TRUE teaching and direction. These people do NOT, for some reason, really try to find Catholic answers to their problem – maybe it’s like the young teen who thinks he’s ALL ALONE in experiencing what every young adult has experienced but he’s afraid to ask questions as to look “weird or stupid”.

What I’m saying is that ALL CHRISTIANS need help when the Holy Spirit it working in their lives. This is definitely not a time when a Christian should try to figure things out for themselves. When we do that - we run into problems; sometimes big problems.

Therefore, IMO - Charismatics don’t need judged – they need encouraged and helped. I’m not saying that people in this thread are doing that because it’s been the opposite. But in other threads there has definitely been a negative connotation given to the Charismatic movement. But, in like manner I think all Christians need to have their antennae up for helping those to whom the Holy Spirit may be moving to give them the support and encouragement to get the professional help they need. I think it is just one more way we can help keep our members Catholic.

MonFrere
I don’t think that Charismatics are any bit more immature then the average Catholic.Having done, adult catechesis,adult faith formation, RCIA,Adult Bible Study and Catholics Come Home program I think I’ve got more insight then the average person.The absence of knowledge by a vast number of people is beyond belief.to say your average Charismatic is spiritually immature or needs to grow spiritually is to blind oneself to the absence of catechesis and spiritually maturity in the majority of rank and file catholics.

My husband and I came later into the movement-only about eight years. What once was very silly and goofy to me became a spiritual’ leg up’.What once sounded like gibberish to me ,began to sound like music."Resting " in the Spirit was a surprise that literally knocked me off my feet! Tongues-I have never spoken -and have felt no compulsion to do. Other gifts have been given to me- or I should say more like they were “unleashed”. These gifts are our right though our sacraments-but we need to uncover and use them
Some say we are addicted to an adreline rush and emotional highs. like many movements,stereotypes are the things people believe. There are many stereotypes- and maybe some were partially true in the past. but i’ve never see any abuses.Much less abuses then I’ve seen with some ultra traditionalsit. But for some reason the don’t get the bad press, even if the deny the current and previous popes.
Some are afraid of the lack of intellectualism that they see in the renewal. Again I see a lot of anti- intellectualism on this site-it’s not limited to one movement
When you feel the Holy Spirit in your lives it is a intense feeling. But it doesn’t start and stop with that one feeling. I was told that what I experienced was “only the beginning”. and that one had to grow in the spirituality and sustain it by being fed. Fed with the Eucharist, with the Word of God,with the Sacraments,with devotions.One is not to sit on one’s laurels.
I think to many people set there eyes on what they see as exotic or unusual…Hands raised or speaking in tongues.That is really a tiny bit of what an Charismatic experiences.That’s the stuff you see at "praise and Worship’ get togethers. That is simply not what we do on a weekly basis. We do sing and praise but we also read scripture and meditate (silent prayer) for long periods of time. We ask if anyone needs prayer for any reason.And we pray, quietly with them
…We just had a Healing Mass last week.We pray in our Chapel with the Eucharist exposed and pray quietly knowing that the greatest healer is in the Monstrance and that we are nothing but acting as the Lord’s hands and feet.Lots of times we do nothing but listen to them and hold their hands and reassure them of God’s Love and saving Grace…
That is my experience and my insights of the Renewal.
We are no more or less spiritually immature or wanting of Grace then any other Catholic.
 
I don’t think that Charismatics are any bit more immature then the average Catholic.
Then you agree that Charismatics begin as spiritually immature?
These gifts are our right though our sacraments-but we need to uncover and use them
So, again you agree. You need spiritual direction after these gifts have been given to you so you can understand what you’ve been given.
We are no more or less spiritually immature or wanting of Grace then any other Catholic.
And I said no different. My point was that whenever the Holy Spirit is given teachers are needed to move that person along the right path. The only think you said that I probably would quibble with is when you said the Holy Spirit is in you lives it is an intense feeling. If you would change that to it “can be” an intense feeling - then I wouldn’t have a quibble. God made us all differently therefore He can reach us in different ways. Many saints encourage a person to become quiet; to quiet their soul, so as to hear the Holy Spirit. This tells me therefore that the Holy Spirit can also move a soul through quiet and peace of mind and spirit. I need spiritual direction in my life without any display of charismatic gifts. I think you need the same. I think we are equals – spiritual maturity can come with or without charismatic gifts; though I think we all have “spiritual” gifts.

MonFrere
 
here is what the papal preacher (the preacher to the pope and cardinals) says about the Charismatic Renewal. He himself is a charismatic btw.

zenit.org/article-8271?l=english

I personally have been so changed by the graces I have received through the Charismatic Renewal. I thank God for opening my heart up more to these graces.

here also is a video that may help you understand that tongues and charismatic renewal are supported by the church:
youtube.com/watch?v=J-QDOcDGDWA

It is best to learn about the Charismatic Renewal from those who belong to it. Others are only judging from the outside, and usually it is judging from appearances. That of course will not get you to the heart of the matter.
 
I am completely open to what is true no matter if it requires me to step out of my comfort zone. And the more jump and shout congregations are truly out of my comfort zone. My concern is that when it comes to the congregations that are like that, I wonder how much is actually brought on by the Holy Spirit or how much is emotion that is brought about by the crowds with that type of personality. I see the same type of display by secular crowds, whether it’s concerts, political special interest groups, parties, etc. I’m trying to understand, but this is my hang up. I wonder how much the different kinds of congregations that are like I mentioned are based upon personalities and people gravitating to what fits their style. Personally for me I would be the type of person that if I was at a party I would be the one who looks for the spot that allows me to keep a low profile, while those who are more into the action would be out there having it going on. Does that make sense? I remember one time when I was at work and one guy who was a little wild was working and all of a sudden he starting shouting and jumping around, he was full of energy and was just carrying on. One church going guy looked at me and said, “I’ve seen people do that when they were filled with the Holy Spirit.” That hit me and made me think that maybe some of the things that people say was caused by the Holy Spirit may not be the Holy Spirit but maybe just an adrenaline rush.
 
Then you agree that Charismatics begin as spiritually immature?

So, again you agree. You need spiritual direction after these gifts have been given to you so you can understand what you’ve been given.

And I said no different. My point was that whenever the Holy Spirit is given teachers are needed to move that person along the right path. The only think you said that I probably would quibble with is when you said the Holy Spirit is in you lives it is an intense feeling. If you would change that to it “can be” an intense feeling - then I wouldn’t have a quibble. God made us all differently therefore He can reach us in different ways. Many saints encourage a person to become quiet; to quiet their soul, so as to hear the Holy Spirit. This tells me therefore that the Holy Spirit can also move a soul through quiet and peace of mind and spirit. I need spiritual direction in my life without any display of charismatic gifts. I think you need the same. I think we are equals – spiritual maturity can come with or without charismatic gifts; though I think we all have “spiritual” gifts.

MonFrere
I never said that the Holy Spirit doesn’t come in the quiet.God comes in a whisper and in the thunder in silence and in noise.We can not limit how the Spirit Acts ,why He acts and the manner He acts…It is for us to listen and try to understand .Discernment is always the hard part.
 
I never said that the Holy Spirit doesn’t come in the quiet.God comes in a whisper and in the thunder in silence and in noise.We can not limit how the Spirit Acts ,why He acts and the manner He acts…It is for us to listen and try to understand .Discernment is always the hard part.
Julia,

I’m perfectly in agreement with what you say above. The fact that you DIDN’T SAY the Holy Spirit can come “in a whisper” is the reason I added it. The balance was needed, IMO, to make the conversation more accurate. I’m all for discernment; for people with and without charismatic experiences. I was speaking in favor of the Charismatic Renewal. But, I also want to speak for those Catholics that are not moved by the Holy Spirit in this way. I can accept people different than myself. I can be friends with those who will also accept me being different than they.

MonFrere
 
I am completely open to what is true no matter if it requires me to step out of my comfort zone. And the more jump and shout congregations are truly out of my comfort zone. My concern is that when it comes to the congregations that are like that, I wonder how much is actually brought on by the Holy Spirit or how much is emotion that is brought about by the crowds with that type of personality. I see the same type of display by secular crowds, whether it’s concerts, political special interest groups, parties, etc. I’m trying to understand, but this is my hang up. I wonder how much the different kinds of congregations that are like I mentioned are based upon personalities and people gravitating to what fits their style. Personally for me I would be the type of person that if I was at a party I would be the one who looks for the spot that allows me to keep a low profile, while those who are more into the action would be out there having it going on. Does that make sense? I remember one time when I was at work and one guy who was a little wild was working and all of a sudden he starting shouting and jumping around, he was full of energy and was just carrying on. One church going guy looked at me and said, “I’ve seen people do that when they were filled with the Holy Spirit.” That hit me and made me think that maybe some of the things that people say was caused by the Holy Spirit may not be the Holy Spirit but maybe just an adrenaline rush.
I’m the same way. In fact I go a step farther and try to avoid parties like the plague.

You don’t have to jump around at a Charismatic meeting. With my arthritis I couldn’t even if I was prone to do so. However, I didn’t jump around even when I was younger and healthier.

Fr. Mitch Pacwa is a Charismatic and I’ve never seen him jump around. (When I used to attend the prayer meetings he led he was too busy playing the mandolin to jump around. :))
 
I’m the same way. In fact I go a step farther and try to avoid parties like the plague.

You don’t have to jump around at a Charismatic meeting. With my arthritis I couldn’t even if I was prone to do so. However, I didn’t jump around even when I was younger and healthier.

Fr. Mitch Pacwa is a Charismatic and I’ve never seen him jump around. (When I used to attend the prayer meetings he led he was too busy playing the mandolin to jump around. :))
Thanks for your reply! I will look into this further with an honest and open mind. The jumping around and stuff that I was thinking about is from what I remember from the Protestant Pentecostal churches, some of them are very “intense”. I was not aware that Fr. Pacwa is a Chrismatic!

By the way, I only used the party thing as an example, I hate parties, I should have been a hermit! 🙂
 
Thanks for your reply! I will look into this further with an honest and open mind. The jumping around and stuff that I was thinking about is from what I remember from the Protestant Pentecostal churches, some of them are very “intense”. I was not aware that Fr. Pacwa is a Chrismatic!

By the way, I only used the party thing as an example, I hate parties, I should have been a hermit! 🙂
Fr. Pacwa was one of the priests, in fact, the main priest, who served at the charismatic prayer group I used to attend. This was back when he was at Loyola University in Chicago.
 
I want to encourage you all to look deeply into the Charismatic Renewal. The exterior actions are not what it is all about. But through this renewal (it will personally renew you in the Holy Spirit) you will be changed for the better, no matter where you are at in your spiritual life. This is because it opens you up to more of the Holy Spirit (again I do not mean any exterior actions but something interior). This “something” I am referring to is called the “baptism in the Holy Spirit”, and it will change your life.

It changed a nun by the name of Mother Angelica who, afterwards, began going around preaching all of the country at charismatic prayer groups and conferences, finally leading her to start EWTN.

of course, the exterior actions are fine as well. After all, when the early church was filled with the Holy Spirit, people thought that they were drunk. They definately had some visible actions going on, but of course, this was a reflection of what was going on interiorly. The Holy Spirit came upon them and did something to them!
 
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