Catholic Charismatic Renewal

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My main concern with “tongues” is demonic counterfeits. As someone whose experienced both sides of the spiritual realm including 3 “double whammies” (like a breath going through you in waves from head to foot, to highlight a message), heavy gripping pressures and a grip around the throat (demonic at night), my father appearing the night he died, regular “tingles” during sermons, voices cuttting clearly across my thoughts (only a couple of times), and other stuff, I’m a bit wary about the source of such an activity. I’d like to be sure it’s the Holy Spirit causing it and not a rather clever piece of demonic mimicry.

So I suppose my concerns boil down to sheer laziness, and a bit of concern about where a particular case of “tongues” might be coming from.
That is a valid concern and this kind of thing does happen. However, it is in the Charismatic Renewal that often time the problem is being overcome. I have seen practically hundreds if not thousands, people who ‘manifested’ during nearly thirty years experience in this area; especially participants attending seminars during **Inner Healing **or Baptism in the Spirit sessions.

It is unbelievable if one has not seen it; we thought this is the kind of stuff we see in the movies only. But happen it did. Normally people who are ‘attacked’ by the Evil One are those with past history of habitual sins especially those or even relative who had involved in the occult and bad/traumatic childhood experienced and therefore led a life of sin – a victim of cruel circumstances rather their own fault.

Sometimes these cases are ‘delivered’ during seminars or conferences by experienced leaders and the person pronounced ‘healed’ and discharged. In reality this is misleading for it takes time for the person to really be freed of the influence of the Evil. He needs to be guided and supported by those who are stronger in the faith. Sometimes this spiritual journey can take years for the person to be completely of this manifestation and that depend very much on his/her perseverance in faith and prayer.

Devilish manifestation if happen in a Charismatic community can be easily addressed because it would be picked up easily. Besides such Charismatic groups should have spiritual directors or liaison priests who look after them and to ensure proper relationship with the ordinaries. The Devil will only make his inroad into a person life if you are alone and without support of a praying community.
 
I’ve got no problem with the Catholic Charismatic movement generally. As it is there’s not enough enthusiasm in Catholic churches, which is one of the reasons the Protestants are making inroads in some places.
For many Catholics who have no idea of what Catholic Charismatic Renewal is, it can be quite baffling to them. Attending prayer meetings on your own without guidance and introduction by members who are already there can be the easiest way to scare you away from it, even if you have the best of intention. Common impression of a beginner of what happen in a Charismatic meeting can range from thinking it is a gimmick by people trying to market spiritual belief by exploiting human sense of want to be excited by drama, to that it is Protestants, to that it is a manifestation of the devil. In this situation the fruit of the renewal especially to people who have been renewed through this movement is therefore simply obscured and overshadowed by the more external negative impression.

In retrospect I can say the followings are how Catholics react to the Charismatic Renewal in the Church:

(1) The majority of Catholics are like yourself, rational and wise. Eventhough they are not in the Renewal, they can see is as part of the Church and accept it as such; as different parts of Body of Christ but nevertheless form together as the Church.

(2) Those who are impressed with how the Renewal changed a person life and so wanted to find out more about it. Usually the person is a relative or a friend, someone known to them.

(3) Those who attended seminars / conferences / activities organized by the CCR, got touched personally and wanted to follow up with what they had found by regularly joining Renewal activities.
Catholics who eventually found themselves in the Renewal were commonly from these categories.
(4) There are those not in the Renewal but through friendship and acquaintance with those in the Renewal has no hostile attitude towards it even though they themselves do not practice the Charismatic spirituality.
There are Catholics who are hostile towards the Renewal in the Church.
(5) Those from different church movements. ‘We don’t practice your spirituality and so we don’t believe in it’. The element of rivalry is very often the contributing factor.

(6) Those who are put off by the behaviour of Charismatics who come off as holy than thou attitude.

(7) Those who knew a Charismatic or Charismatic movement that went through scandal and Charismatics who left the Church.

(8) In the early years there could be problem between Renewal leaders and the local ordinaries and priests. It can be quite a shock for priests to suddenly finding themselves competing with Charismatic lay leaders in the parish; who more often can deliver powerful preaching and teaching; and able to summon big crowd to attend their activities; and making huge impact in their lives. Of course this happened in a lifeless church and people are thirsty for spiritual revival. Unfortunately those leaders were new in the Renewal and lack experience in dealing with insecure priests and the result is a disaster in clergies-laities relationship leading to the Renewal being stigmatized in the Church. The Charismatic are seen as disobedient and practicing a kind of worship not found within the Church tradition.

(9) There are those who think the Charismatic Renewal as an off shoot of Protestant Pentecostal Churches. Of course that is far from the truth as they are two different things altogether, but nevertheless as is often the case anything that minutely resemble Protestantism can be quite a problem for (some) Catholics.

God bless.
 
It is said that there are none so blind as those who would not see. Ralph Martin (who, if I recall correctly, is a charismatic) wrote (I think I have the title correct - I am not at home) The Church at the End of the Age. His statistics are just as blistering. And yet he goes on to show the work of the Holy Spirit, alive in the Church.
Ralph Martin is a writer and one of the pioneers in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. The book mentioned is produced relatively recently. He had written good materials on prayers and Christian family in his earlier books. Now a professor with a Catholic university he is still a very much wanted speaker in the Church. I was privileged to have worked with him a couple of times in international conferences with him as the main speaker. The thing about Ralph is that he is a very simple person and he comes on ‘cheap’. He would not make conditions for his speaking engagement and he would allow the organizers full authority even in the selling of his tapes. This is marked difference from other people who demand exorbitant speaking fees and other perks which the poorer churches especially in third world countries could hardly afford.

Come to think of it, even the name Charismatic Renewal came as an afterthought. It was suggested at first to call the new phenomenon as Pentecostal movement considering the call of the Church to pray for a new Pentecost and the action of the Holy Spirit that was so similar to it. It did not materialize as it was too close to the Protestant denomination of similar name.

Like it is said, a tree is known by its fruits. Today CCR is not so strange anymore in the Catholic scene and it is surely one of the big moves of the Holy Spirit in the twentieth century. Millions of lives have been changed and that in itself is revealing testimonies.

God bless.
 
Hi,
I wanted to give my perspective on the CCR during the past 30 years.

One Easter (in the 70’s) we had a group that met in our home to discuss a book that our pastor wanted us to mediate on (can’t remember the book), but what I do remember was there was one lady who when she prayed there was so much power. Later I found out she went to a Catholic Charismatic prayer group. My husband and I started attending and I’ll never forget the first time I was there. After singing several worship songs I noticed they were singing a song I couldn’t understand. The melody was the most angelic sound (I had or have ever heard) with all the harmonies. No one was leading them. I then realized that this must be because of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking/singing in tongues.

I asked a Charismatic non-catholic friend, who happened to come over to our house that night, to pray that I could receive this gift. When he laid hands on me I felt like he was pushing me through the floor and I couldn’t speak, or basically even move. I felt so weak. The next morning strange words kept coming to my mind. Also, I had such an intense craving to read my Bible, something I never had done before. The words in the Bible seemed like they were alive, penetrating to the deepest part of my soul.

The Mass was totally transformed to me as well. I looked around and wondered why the people just seemed so rote about what they were saying - didn’t they realize what they were praying and what the words meant. Our Monseigneur didn’t believe in this new movement and after much consideration we started attending a non-denomination church.

In the early 80’s we had a Spirit filled priest come to town. He had a healing ministry. Without going into all the details, I just want to say that he was teaching from a platform above the crowd and when he prayed for people he never touched them, just stretched out his hand over them and many would be slain in the Spirit. Most of the people were Catholics who knew nothing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Over the years I have been gone down (slain) several times when getting prayed for. The power of the Holy Spirit is just too strong for me to stand, my knees buckle and I’m down, just too weak to get up for several minutes.

Jump now into the present. I have felt a great longing to come back home to the Catholic Church and during this Christmas time I went to confession and have “come home”! I truly believe that it is because of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that I have increased my love for the Eucharist and the Catholic Church. I pray in tongues daily because Jude 20 says: “But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Sprit”.

There is so much more that can be said but I believe that in these uncertain times we need all the gifts that God gives us and one of these is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt.

This is my first post so I am a little nervous about writing.

God Bless!
 
Hi,
I wanted to give my perspective on the CCR during the past 30 years.

One Easter (in the 70’s) we had a group that met in our home to discuss a book that our pastor wanted us to mediate on (can’t remember the book), but what I do remember was there was one lady who when she prayed there was so much power. Later I found out she went to a Catholic Charismatic prayer group. My husband and I started attending and I’ll never forget the first time I was there. After singing several worship songs I noticed they were singing a song I couldn’t understand. The melody was the most angelic sound (I had or have ever heard) with all the harmonies. No one was leading them. I then realized that this must be because of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking/singing in tongues.
If you can’t understand what they are saying, then what is the purpose? At Pentecost the Apostles didn’t start speaking gibberish; they spoke in the (foreign) languages of the people who were present, who had journeyed from all parts of the world to be there. God gave them the grace of speaking languages they had previously been unfamiliar with in order to preach the gospel in the languages of the people assembled.
I asked a Charismatic non-catholic friend, who happened to come over to our house that night, to pray that I could receive this gift. When he laid hands on me I felt like he was pushing me through the floor and I couldn’t speak, or basically even move. I felt so weak. The next morning strange words kept coming to my mind. Also, I had such an intense craving to read my Bible, something I never had done before. The words in the Bible seemed like they were alive, penetrating to the deepest part of my soul.
Why would you look for graces and charisms from a non-Catholic? Grace comes through the Church - if you need to go elsewhere to find it, then it’s probably not from God. Why would divine grace - which always respects our freedom - paralyze you?
The Mass was totally transformed to me as well. I looked around and wondered why the people just seemed so rote about what they were saying - didn’t they realize what they were praying and what the words meant. Our Monseigneur didn’t believe in this new movement and after much consideration we started attending a non-denomination church.
You don’t know that “they don’t realize what they’re praying and what the words mean”. And you shouldn’t be judgmental; some people (like me) prefer to pray quietly and in stillness - as did many of the saints. The Desert Fathers counseled hesychia, or stillness, as the proper or even necessary vehicle for contemplation.

If you lapsed from the Church as a result of your “charismatic” experience, then obviously it wasn’t from God. “By their fruits you shall know them.”
In the early 80’s we had a Spirit filled priest come to town. He had a healing ministry. Without going into all the details, I just want to say that he was teaching from a platform above the crowd and when he prayed for people he never touched them, just stretched out his hand over them and many would be slain in the Spirit. Most of the people were Catholics who knew nothing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Over the years I have been gone down (slain) several times when getting prayed for. The power of the Holy Spirit is just too strong for me to stand, my knees buckle and I’m down, just too weak to get up for several minutes.
All priests are Spirit-filled through the grace of ordination, and many are full of sanctifying grace through their own personal holiness.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same thing as physical baptism by water; this imparts sanctifying grace to us and erases the stain of original sin. There is no new “spiritual” baptism after this; this is a Protestant heresy. “I acknowledge ONE baptism for the remission of sins.”

What on earth is being “slain in the Spirit”? As a Catholic I’ve always been taught to avoid spiritual death (mortal sin) at the cost of any earthly suffering whatsoever - I don’t think this is what you mean!
Jump now into the present. I have felt a great longing to come back home to the Catholic Church and during this Christmas time I went to confession and have “come home”! I truly believe that it is because of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that I have increased my love for the Eucharist and the Catholic Church. I pray in tongues daily because Jude 20 says: “But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Sprit”.
There is so much more that can be said but I believe that in these uncertain times we need all the gifts that God gives us and one of these is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt.
This is my first post so I am a little nervous about writing.
God Bless!
Yes, we do need all the gifts that God gives us, including that of tongues if that’s what glossolalia is, but we also need discernment. “The Devil also has his contemplatives,” and appears as an angel of light, and works prelest (spiritual delusion) on saints and beginners in the spiritual life alike.

Benedicite!
 
Cecilianus,
Wow! You really tore apart my message. First, I apologize if I offended anyone. I am just a 60 year old grandmother who loves the Lord with all my heart and never meant to portray the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in a negative light.

Second, I thought this was a Christian forum but I have never been attacked in this way for what I believe so after this post I am going to delete my account - if I can figure out how to do it. From now on I’ll just stick to my Bible and Catechism for any answers I need.

Third, I’m going to respond to your points. I don’t know how to enclose things in quotes so I’ll just list them.
  1. If I were to speak in tongues in a crowd I would do so only if there was an interpretation. I speak in tongues in private. There are times when I don’t know how to pray for a situation and I know the Holy Spirit knows what needs to be prayed.
    1 Cor 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is without fruit. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing with the spirit, I will sing also with the understanding. DR
1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue, speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man heareth. Yet by the Spirit he speaketh mysteries. DR

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts, knoweth what the Spirit desireth; because he asketh for the saints according to God. DR
  1. Non-Catholic friend. You don’t have to be a Catholic to have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. He is a man of great faith and prayer.
  2. Rote prayers in Mass. I do apologize for being judgmental. I guess because there were a lot of times my prayers were rote I felt there must have been others too.
  3. Paralyze me. 3 Kings 8:11 And the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord. DR
  4. Lapsed from the church. Actually we attended both the Catholic church and a non-denominational church for over a year. It was during this time that I felt like I was learning more about the Bible from the non-denominational church. So I guess you are right. I did lapse.
  5. Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit comes to us at Baptism. This is the “filling of the Holy Spirit” at Pentecost.
    Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak.
    Ephesians 5 Found 3:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is luxury; but be filled with the Holy Spirit. DR
    Luke 11 Found 5:13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father from heaven give the good Spirit to them that ask him?DR
  6. “slain in the Spirit”. I’m not sure who came up with this phrase but see point 4: 3 Kings 8:11 And the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord. DR
  7. “The Devil also has his contemplatives,” and appears as an angel of light, and works prelest (spiritual delusion) on saints and beginners in the spiritual life alike."
    I would be very careful about subscribing the works of the devil to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    St. Matthew 12:31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. DR
For this reason I will offer no more replies to my message. I will not have the Holy Spirit ridiculed because of something I have written.
If you can’t understand what they are saying, then what is the purpose? At Pentecost the Apostles didn’t start speaking gibberish; they spoke in the (foreign) languages of the people who were present, who had journeyed from all parts of the world to be there. God gave them the grace of speaking languages they had previously been unfamiliar with in order to preach the gospel in the languages of the people assembled.

Why would you look for graces and charisms from a non-Catholic? Grace comes through the Church - if you need to go elsewhere to find it, then it’s probably not from God. Why would divine grace - which always respects our freedom - paralyze you?

You don’t know that “they don’t realize what they’re praying and what the words mean”. And you shouldn’t be judgmental; some people (like me) prefer to pray quietly and in stillness - as did many of the saints. The Desert Fathers counseled hesychia, or stillness, as the proper or even necessary vehicle for contemplation.

If you lapsed from the Church as a result of your “charismatic” experience, then obviously it wasn’t from God. “By their fruits you shall know them.”

All priests are Spirit-filled through the grace of ordination, and many are full of sanctifying grace through their own personal holiness.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same thing as physical baptism by water; this imparts sanctifying grace to us and erases the stain of original sin. There is no new “spiritual” baptism after this; this is a Protestant heresy. “I acknowledge ONE baptism for the remission of sins.”

What on earth is being “slain in the Spirit”? As a Catholic I’ve always been taught to avoid spiritual death (mortal sin) at the cost of any earthly suffering whatsoever - I don’t think this is what you mean!

Yes, we do need all the gifts that God gives us, including that of tongues if that’s what glossolalia is, but we also need discernment. “The Devil also has his contemplatives,” and appears as an angel of light, and works prelest (spiritual delusion) on saints and beginners in the spiritual life alike.

Benedicite!
 
If you can’t understand what they are saying, then what is the purpose? At Pentecost the Apostles didn’t start speaking gibberish; they spoke in the (foreign) languages of the people who were present, who had journeyed from all parts of the world to be there. God gave them the grace of speaking languages they had previously been unfamiliar with in order to preach the gospel in the languages of the people assembled.

Why would you look for graces and charisms from a non-Catholic? Grace comes through the Church - if you need to go elsewhere to find it, then it’s probably not from God. Why would divine grace - which always respects our freedom - paralyze you?

You don’t know that “they don’t realize what they’re praying and what the words mean”. And you shouldn’t be judgmental; some people (like me) prefer to pray quietly and in stillness - as did many of the saints. The Desert Fathers counseled hesychia, or stillness, as the proper or even necessary vehicle for contemplation.

If you lapsed from the Church as a result of your “charismatic” experience, then obviously it wasn’t from God. “By their fruits you shall know them.”

All priests are Spirit-filled through the grace of ordination, and many are full of sanctifying grace through their own personal holiness.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same thing as physical baptism by water; this imparts sanctifying grace to us and erases the stain of original sin. There is no new “spiritual” baptism after this; this is a Protestant heresy. “I acknowledge ONE baptism for the remission of sins.”

What on earth is being “slain in the Spirit”? As a Catholic I’ve always been taught to avoid spiritual death (mortal sin) at the cost of any earthly suffering whatsoever - I don’t think this is what you mean!

Yes, we do need all the gifts that God gives us, including that of tongues if that’s what glossolalia is, but we also need discernment. “The Devil also has his contemplatives,” and appears as an angel of light, and works prelest (spiritual delusion) on saints and beginners in the spiritual life alike.

Benedicite!
As a person who has been active in the Catholic Charismatic movement, I feel there a few points that I must correct for you. First off the gift of tongues was always explained to me as a prayer language, to help you pray. I find myself using this most of the times at my weekly Eucharistic Chapel visit. It helps me to give to Jesus my anger, sorrow, stress or other emotional burdens, and from there more on to my growth as a Catholic.
There is a lot of terms used that had it’s start in the Protestant roots of the Catholic Charismatic movement, and it can lead to misunderstandings (and yes some wandering away from the Church). Things were explained to me always from a Catholic perspective (and in a Parish setting). For instance, Baptisim of the Holy Spirit was explained in terms of taking the gifts recieved at the Sacrements of Baptisim and Confirmation, unwraping them and putting them to use. Staying within the contects of you parish and your Pastor’s shepherding is the way to avoid the errors you have been pointing too.
I do belive that as a part of the Universal, that is Catholic, all prayer styles need to be welcome, as long as they submit to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. If you check Pope Paul VI’s document on the Charismatic movement, you will find this same view point. We have had Archbishops Celebrate Mass at the closing of the Archdioces convention on the renewal before. They have discribed it as a spiritually uplifting experiance.
Remember everything God uses for good the Devil can use for wrong, but that does not men you automaticly toss it out because some one did bad with it.
Peace of the Lord be with you always
 
As a person who has been active in the Catholic Charismatic movement, I feel there a few points that I must correct for you. First off the gift of tongues was always explained to me as a prayer language, to help you pray. I find myself using this most of the times at my weekly Eucharistic Chapel visit. It helps me to give to Jesus my anger, sorrow, stress or other emotional burdens, and from there more on to my growth as a Catholic.
Okay - but I still have a strong reservation accepting this gift as something miraculous rather than simply psychological. Psychological gifts can be properly referred to as gifts, like the gift of tears, but I don’t like it when they’re called “charisms”. When I hear “charism” I think of telling prophecies and working miracles - things that don’t have a natural explanation.
There is a lot of terms used that had it’s start in the Protestant roots of the Catholic Charismatic movement, and it can lead to misunderstandings (and yes some wandering away from the Church). Things were explained to me always from a Catholic perspective (and in a Parish setting). For instance, Baptisim of the Holy Spirit was explained in terms of taking the gifts recieved at the Sacrements of Baptisim and Confirmation, unwraping them and putting them to use.
Okay. I wish we had a better term for it then.
Staying within the context of your parish and your Pastor’s shepherding is the way to avoid the errors you have been pointing too.
I do believe that as a part of the Universal, that is Catholic, all prayer styles need to be welcome, as long as they submit to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. If you check Pope Paul VI’s document on the Charismatic movement, you will find this same view point. We have had Archbishops Celebrate Mass at the closing of the Archdioces convention on the renewal before. They have discribed it as a spiritually uplifting experiance.
Agreed in the case of private prayer, but some prayer styles are simply inappropriate for Mass. Having rock bands during Mass is inappropriate; it lacks the solemnity we owe Jesus during the re-presentation of His Sacrifice. Jumping around in the pews is fine in private prayer if that’s what leads you closer to Jesus (if it does indeed lead you closer in a permanent way, rather than just giving you an emotional high), but really, really inappropriate during a solemn Liturgy. (And all liturgies should be solemn.)
Remember everything God uses for good the Devil can use for wrong, but that does not men you automaticly toss it out because some one did bad with it.
Peace of the Lord be with you always
And anything the Devil starts - the Pentecostal movement or Medjugorje - God can work good with, but it would be a lot safer if it were grounded more deeply in Catholic tradition and separated more from its Protestant roots. If you want to see the true model of a charismatic, look at the saints - saints who were given infused knowledge (usually of other languages) by God, saints like Padre Pio who were given the gift of discernment in the confessional (the Scriptural gift of “prophecy”), and saints who bilocated.
 
Hi, I would like to share about my involvement with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. As a prayer group leader myself, what I have experienced is many people who were lukewarm, not sure if they believed in the truths of our fatih, come into a powerful transformation through the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Our group is mostly young adults, and through the group, they are coming back to the sacraments and are becoming people of prayer. Actually they are not becoming, they have become!

Praise God, he deserves all the praise and glory. He is wonderful and powerful.

I’ve said it before, and maybe you’ve heard it before, the Catholic Church has given its approval to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and our charism to the church. That charism is none other than the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. You can disagree if you think that you know better than the church. But of course, we submit to the church and not the other way around.

peace!
 
I find it interesting how so many Catholics are uncomfortable with true Catholic teaching concerning the fruit and gifts of the Holy Spirit. Our past three popes have endorsed the Charismatic movement as an awakening to the Holy Spirit, who is worshiped and glorified with the Father and the Son. So why not take some time to learn about the God we worship and try to develop a better understanding and willingness to accept the gifts of the Holy Spirit and enjoy the fruit God wants you to have. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not essential to achieve salvation but they DO build up the body of Christ. Mary said yes! (she is the spouse of the Holy Spirit) Padre Pio said Yes! ( He was considered to blessed with many Charisms including, reading hearts, and healing) Give it a try, say yes to the Holy Spirit and start living in way that edifies and builds up the body of Christ. When you celebrate your birthday do you say no the gifts your friends and family bring? Then why say no to God. It’s time for a new Pentecost, set your faith on o FIRE! Push your comfort zone.
 
Hi, I would like to share about my involvement with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. As a prayer group leader myself, what I have experienced is many people who were lukewarm, not sure if they believed in the truths of our fatih, come into a powerful transformation through the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Our group is mostly young adults, and through the group, they are coming back to the sacraments and are becoming people of prayer. Actually they are not becoming, they have become!

Praise God, he deserves all the praise and glory. He is wonderful and powerful.

I’ve said it before, and maybe you’ve heard it before, the Catholic Church has given its approval to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and our charism to the church. That charism is none other than the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. You can disagree if you think that you know better than the church. But of course, we submit to the church and not the other way around.

peace!
What the Church teaches is that baptism by water IS baptism in the Holy Spirit.
 
What the Church teaches is that baptism by water IS baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Which is why the term for the Charismatic experience is better termed “The Release of the Spirit”. In Baptism we all receive the Spirit.t it is like being given a new car. One has to learn to open the garage door and turn on the ignition to get the benefit from it.
 
Which is why the term for the Charismatic experience is better termed “The Release of the Spirit”. In Baptism we all receive the Spirit.t it is like being given a new car. One has to learn to open the garage door and turn on the ignition to get the benefit from it.
We do not need to attend a charismatic meeting to get the full benefit from the Holy Spirit.
Thats saying charismatics are a tier above all other Catholics. Sounds like heresy to me. If thats what you are saying then I would like to see a Church document which states this.
 
We do not need to attend a charismatic meeting to get the full benefit from the Holy Spirit.
Thats saying charismatics are a tier above all other Catholics. Sounds like heresy to me. If thats what you are saying then I would like to see a Church document which states this.
What you say is true, except that I’ve not seen or heard anyone say that you need to attend a prayer group to get the full benefit from the Holy Spirit. Many ways are available to do that, jusy don’t close off a prayer meeting. It does help some people
 
We do not need to attend a charismatic meeting to get the full benefit from the Holy Spirit.
Thats saying charismatics are a tier above all other Catholics. Sounds like heresy to me. If thats what you are saying then I would like to see a Church document which states this.
No that is not what is being said.Through the sacraments we are endowed with the HS.But how many people are actually cognizant of that fact? and utilze the power of the Spirit?
 
Which is why the term for the Charismatic experience is better termed “The Release of the Spirit”. In Baptism we all receive the Spirit.t it is like being given a new car. One has to learn to open the garage door and turn on the ignition to get the benefit from it.
How do we know that we are releasing the Holy Spirit, though, as if that were even possible (man can’t manipulate God! The only God-given channels of grace are the sacraments.) The Catholic faith teaches that the graces of the Holy Spirit are given through the seven sacraments He gave us and through prayer, fasting, good works, and sacramentals - not through an emotional rise. Grace is not a feeling - it’s a sharing in the divine life of God, a deification through grace. You convey grace through the sacraments, not through the electric guitar.
 
We do not need to attend a charismatic meeting to get the full benefit from the Holy Spirit.
Thats saying charismatics are a tier above all other Catholics. Sounds like heresy to me. If thats what you are saying then I would like to see a Church document which states this.
The term “charismatic” implies that other Catholics lack the charisms of the Holy Spirit, and are therefore not even Christian. Sounds like heresy to me too, and all this talk of a separate “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and the uncritical acceptance of enthusiasm among heretics as being the Holy Spirit’s doing is certainly heresy. Protestants cannot even be saved except through invincible ignorance (no salvation outside the Church!), much less be privileged above 99% of all Catholics by being the only ones to have the Holy Spirit’s charisms!
 
How do we know that we are releasing the Holy Spirit, though, as if that were even possible (man can’t manipulate God! The only God-given channels of grace are the sacraments.) The Catholic faith teaches that the graces of the Holy Spirit are given through the seven sacraments He gave us and through prayer, fasting, good works, and sacramentals - not through an emotional rise. Grace is not a feeling - it’s a sharing in the divine life of God, a deification through grace. You convey grace through the sacraments, not through the electric guitar.
Ah, that’s why we have a “prayer” group were we pray fo the infilling of the Spirit-since we are already aware of the the grace given through the sacraments, prayer, good works etc…You speak as if “emotions” were some kind of dirty word.I already know God in my head, spirit but I also want to feel it in my heart-to have that kind of intimate experience that Moses had that made his face radiant.The intimacy of Jesus with His Father.Taking the Eucharist can and should be an intimate experience along with the other sacrament- but are they to the majority of Catholics? To many charismatics they are.For some reason people are under the misconception that we “only” do charismatic “stuff” and they somehow we are not involved in anything else.That’s just stuff and nonsense.We are involved with the sacraments, devotions and everything else"good" catholics are supposed to do.If it weren’t for the Charismatics in my parish- there would be no Eucharistic Adoration,no monstrance-my husband and a few other charismatics pushed for it and donated a monstrance then organized the first Friday…We started cenacles ,and divine mercy novenas-all without anybody knowing we were charismatics- because we did it for the whole church and not just a portion.We never announced or told anyone of our Charismatic affliation-we just did it.I would say the majority of people don’t know that my husband or I are Charismatics.And all this was done without being allowed to have our own little room to pray and fellowship in. We were obedient to our pastor who didn’t care for charsmatics.Several years later our new pastor(though he doesn’t get us) sees us as an asset not a detriment,As people willing to serve without hand-wringing but with joy even under less the ideal circumstances.You might not get grace from a electric guitar but neither do you get it from an organ nor through chant(which is actually one of my favorite kinds of music).
 
The term “charismatic” implies that other Catholics lack the charisms of the Holy Spirit, and are therefore not even Christian. Sounds like heresy to me too, and all this talk of a separate “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and the uncritical acceptance of enthusiasm among heretics as being the Holy Spirit’s doing is certainly heresy. Protestants cannot even be saved except through invincible ignorance (no salvation outside the Church!), much less be privileged above 99% of all Catholics by being the only ones to have the Holy Spirit’s charisms!
Actually you’re the one with the"holier than thou" attitude. Bandying about the word “heretic” which comes so trippingly from your tongue, belies that any one not of “your brand” of Catholicism is substandard and heretical.By the way - you have no power to name anything heretical- heresy can only be determined by the church.Your posts are getting shrill and more operatic -no one has said non-charismatics are substandard-but you.No one has said that charismatics are the only ones to have the Holy Spirit-except you.These are creations of your own mind and your own spirit.Your dislike even hatred of charismatics is fairly palpable.Do we not work in the same vineyard?for the same Lord? Do you actually think that the Lord has a hierarchy of love for His children? Do you actually think you know more about what is heretical and what is not then the Church? Why do you think your love of the church is greater ,purer and more worthy then mine? Why do you think that we have anything but love for our fellow Catholics?The demons are of your own making, the heresies of your own creation, your dislikes from your own misunderstanding, your hatred from your own biases
.Man’s view is narrow because it lacks God’s infinite love .God’s infinite love cannot be understood by man because man does not see the heart only the shell. We should all try to emulate God by looking to the heart and not the shell. In His peace, and His Joy.
 
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